JF-17: a major achievement

[illuminatus]

because many of you think JF17 is better than SU 30mki and MKI is most superior of SU 30 class and you say about F22 USAF has 150 F22 RAPTORS

Please stop ruining this thread by bringing in off topic issues such as Su-30 etc. Also, stop assuming things out of the blue. Let's not compare apples with oranges. The topic of this thread is JF-17 and not the comparison between any other aircraft. Request would be to stay on topic.

 

[unicorn148]

i think pakistan has made a major achievement with very limited funds they overcome over indian LCA both technologically and fundingly

you say technologically JF17 is a 4th generation plane and LCA is 4++ generation plane i dont know why you try to compare both we didnt have any experience when we stared the LCA its a learning process we came across many problem across the journey and trying to succeed it even Pakistan will face such problems when it will try to make plane on its own becasue you too dont have any experience

 

[T-50]

firstly kindly read the article at the top and you will get the answers. if not then....

currently pakistans share in the manufacturing is around 20% and mainly on the airframe -

in the next 2-3 years it will be upped to 60% to also include all the avionics (Grifo-7 for the F-7PG is 100% locally built so there is enough experience)

eventually pakistan's share will reach 80% - only the powerplant will continue to be imported either from china or via russia (thru china).

most of the weapons load except for a2a missiles will also be manufactured locally at the Air Weapons Complex.

have a nice day!

Sir ji eveything of LCA will be build in India in 2-3 years time, even a2a missile will build in India ,

 

[Naradmuni]

i think pakistan has made a major achievement with very limited funds they overcome over indian LCA both technologically and fundingly

The LCA is the smallest and the lightest light combat aircraft in world and is planed to replace the aging Mig 21 series aircraft and be front line mulitmission single seat tactical aircraft. LCA features State of the art avionics and beyond the visual range system including advanced fly-by-wire system.

The JF 17 features are an all weather multipurpose light fighter and the aircraft is features with up to date avionics with only medium range missiles, but is also capable of carrying air to air missiles.
Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s.

LCA is equipped to carry all the next generation missiles that the SU 30mki carries along with the capability of carrying several advanced BVR missiles like AA-10 Alamo, AA-12 Adder, MICA and maybe even Derby. But the main component is the India’s own Indigenous BVR missile, Astra.

Moving on to good old dogfighting. To compare between the two on dogfighting criteria it is a little bit shaky. LCA has delta wings and no tailplanes; considering this fact LCA is more agile and maneuverable.
FC 1 will be equipped with AIM-9x and Sidewinder missiles. On the contrary LCA will be equipped AA-11 Archer, AIM-9p and with the extremely lethal Israeli Python 4 and 5.

We clearly have winner in Avionics and other critical parameters here.

 

[wangrong]

Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s.


We clearly have winner in Avionics and other critical parameters here.

who tell you ?

jf-17 can carry china/us/france/russia weapons

 

[Haanzo]

jf-17 can carry china/us/france/russia weapons

please can you prove it atlest the bold part .... DO ANY PAKISTANI BROTHERS SPORT HIS CLAIM -PARTICULARLY A2A MISSILES ??? please feel free to post

 

[illuminatus]

please can you prove it atlest the bold part .... DO ANY PAKISTANI BROTHERS SPORT HIS CLAIM -PARTICULARLY A2A MISSILES ??? please feel free to post

Why would the Pakistani authorities otherwise hold talks with the French for a possible MICA missile deal? The JF-17 can house the AIM-9 Sidewinder.

 

[desiman]

It would be better that before you come up with another unsubstantiated articles or posts, would be better you read the post carefully and also the post to which was it replied and the subsequent discussion, then may be you get the idea what we are talking about.

And i have not said any bad comments about HAL or MKI.

Just tell me one answer is IAF manufacturing the Su-30MKI at one of its airbases or plant setup by IAF or is HAL another manufacturing concern manufacturing / assembling the Su-30MKI at its facilities ???

Read the posts again and try to understand what we are discussing.

First of all the IAF is not a concerned with production of an aircraft in any way neither is the PAF. So yes in a way you are right IAF does not manufacture the MKI lol IAF will eventually acquire a total of 230 Su-30MKI. Out of these 90 will be made in Russia by Irkutsk Aircraft Production Association (IAPO) while the rest will be produced in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Production might be increased if necessary. HAL chairman Nalini Ranjan Mohanty has said that the Indian-built Su-30s will cost only about $22.5 million a unit against the current import price of about $37.5 million. The first Su-30MKI was delivered by IAPO on June 22, 2002 aboard an An-124. 2 more followed in the same month. The first batch of 10 Su-30MKIs were inducted into the Indian Air Force on 27-Sep-2002 at Lohegaon AFS where the No. 20 Lightnings was constituted. The Phase-III aircraft deliveries were completed by Dec 2004, when around the same time the first HAL assembled Su-30MKIs rolled out. By 2006 it is expected that Phase I and II aircraft will be up to the latest standard.

Can you tell me how do you manufacture plane at airbases? LOL Maybe the PAF is way ahead of the IAF on that front atleast infact its even ahead of the USAF because even the USAF do not manufacture plane lol That is what i meant by site your sources. read my post also and try to understand the logic behind it. Demeaning the HAL will not glorify the JF-17. Now let me ask you this question, can you tell me what part or which technology of the JF-17 is conceptualized and manufactured by Pakistan. I am not talking about production, i am talking about design, so i hope you can answer this, only then can the JF-17 be called an " Achievement"

 

[desiman]

So are we for you guys, as every nation and country has the right to develop and manufacture what it deems fit for itself and for its security. Success and failure are part of the process, without failure coming to success has no fun and learning, as failure makes us learn more and more and get us to the goal of success.

I can agree with you there, gud point

 

[Guest]

HAL chairman Nalini Ranjan Mohanty has said that the Indian-built Su-30s will cost only about $22.5 million a unit against the current import price of about $37.5 million.

IAF will raise all his hands and even legs to say aye to buy a $22.5M MKI rather than LCA or MRCA.

 

[ejaz007]

you say technologically JF17 is a 4th generation plane and LCA is 4++ generation plane i dont know why you try to compare both we didnt have any experience when we stared the LCA its a learning process we came across many problem across the journey and trying to succeed it even Pakistan will face such problems when it will try to make plane on its own becasue you too dont have any experience

LCA is not the learning process for India. India already had experience of manufacturing Fighters. HF-24 Marut was your first fighter built during late 60 and early 70s. You should have documented the problems encountered and would have some knowledge of anticipated problems.

You should search before posting.

 

[ejaz007]

IAF will raise all his hands and even legs to say aye to buy a $22.5M MKI rather than LCA or MRCA.

SU-30 MKI costs more than what you have stated.

 

[desiman]

SU-30 MKI costs more than what you have stated.

It does, i am aware of that, the price quoted is just the base price. There are many add to that price. But even with those add ons the price of a HAL manufactured MKI is quite less than a imported one. Just for reference i quoted the base price for both the domestic and the imported MKI's so its still a fair comparison.

 

[Windjammer]

you say technologically JF17 is a 4th generation plane and LCA is 4++ generation plane i dont know why you try to compare both we didnt have any experience when we stared the LCA its a learning process we came across many problem across the journey and trying to succeed it even Pakistan will face such problems when it will try to make plane on its own becasue you too dont have any experience

India has been producing the Kiran versions of trainers for some time, it also had a shot at Ajeet and HF-24 Maurat some four decades earlier.

 

[Sapper]

First of all the IAF is not a concerned with production of an aircraft in any way neither is the PAF. So yes in a way you are right IAF does not manufacture the MKI ... ... ... Production might be increased if necessary. HAL chairman Nalini Ranjan Mohanty ...

Can you tell me how do you manufacture plane at airbases? LOL Maybe the PAF is way ahead of the IAF on that front atleast infact its even ahead of the USAF because even the USAF do not manufacture plane lol That is what i meant by site your sources ...

Dear,
That's where you are wrong ... the beauty of Defense industries of Pakistan is that they are mostly owned by Military and operated by men in uniform themselves, saving the havoc and deception of ambitious profits, unmet requirements and falsified results when a manufacturer and consumer are not on the same page. In Pakistan they are not only on the same page, they are the same page.


1. PAC Kamra.

PAC is owned and operated by PAF personnel. It is located INSIDE Kamra's Minhas Airbase premises. If anyone ever gets to visit PAC he will find 90% staff IN uniform and rank badges. Rest of the 10% staff are civilian employees either directly hired for PAC, on deputation from various NESCOM organizations or retired PAC personnel given contract jobs after retirement. (The percentages are my estimate of what i have seen, could not find any link to depict this percentage)

Air Marshal Farhat Hussain Khan — Chairman, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra
Air Vice Marshal Aminullah Khan — Managing Director, Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) at PAC Kamra
Air Commodore Suhail Salim — Member Technical, Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) at PAC Kamra
Air Commodore Mujtaba Jamal — Member Commercial, Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) at PAC Kamra
etc etc ...
sources:
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.:: Pakistan Aeronautical Complex ::.
::: DEPO - Defence Export Promotion Organization :::
Wapedia - Wiki: Minhas Airbase



2. AWC Wah.

AWC was owned and operated by PAF personnel until recently, while now it comes partly under NESCOM umbrella because of its very close co-operation with other NESCOM organizations but still continue to be run by PAF personnel. It is a mix of serving and retired PAF personnel, Nescom engineers and technicians, and very few civilian employees and consultants. AWC departments not under PAF control come under AERO which are fully controlled by NESCOM.
Air Vice Marshal Zubair Iqbal Malik — DG Air Weapons Complex (AWC), Wah Cantonment
Sources:
Air Weapons Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Advanced Engineering Research Organization
::: DEPO - Defence Export Promotion Organization :::


3. HIT Taxila. (Not PAF, But Pak-Army)

Heavy Industries Taxila is where Al-Khalid-MBT, Al-Zarrar-MBT, APCs and other armoured vehicles are produced. It is completely owned and operated by Pak-Army management. "It consists of six major production units and their support facilities, staffed by over 6500 highly skilled personnel. About 30% of the 6500 employees are uniformed military personnel."
Lt. General Ayyaz Salim Rana — Chairman Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT), Taxila.
Sources:
Heavy Industries Taxila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
::: DEPO - Defence Export Promotion Organization :::
:: ISPR :: Inter Services Public Relations - PAKISTAN


4. POF Wah. (Pak-Army)

Pakistan Ordenance Factories is the biggest ordanance manufacturing plant of Pak-Army (there are also some few smaller ones). It may be partly owned and operated by by PA (no firm source available), but what i do know is that entire top brass consists of serving PA officers and that has been the case since inception. It employs more percentage of civilians than in HIT (no source to cite facts) but a huge number of serving army personnel are also working in POF, which is why it resides in the center of Wah Cantonment. "POF is a sprawling complex of fourteen production units and six subsidiaries producing conventional arms and ammunition".
Lt. General Syed Sabahat Hussain — Chairman Pakistan Ordinance Factories (POF), Wah Cantonment.
Sources:
Pakistan Ordnance Factories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
::: DEPO - Defence Export Promotion Organization :::
:: ISPR :: Inter Services Public Relations - PAKISTAN

and many more ... Hope you understand.

My point being ...

A) "IAF is not a concerned with production of an aircraft in any way" TRUE
B) "neither is the PAF" FALSE

A) "even the USAF do not manufacture plane" TRUE
B) neither does PAF FALSE


"Can you tell me how do you manufacture plane at airbases?"
Every single aircraft in this world is manufactured next to an airbase/airstrip, so that after its assembly either it can fly away on its own or its transporter can fly away ferrying it in its belly. I have never heard of any major aircraft manufacturing plant lacking a runway. I may be wrong here since there is no lack of idiots making that mistake, so i rephrase it, no sane man will make a mistake of manufacturing aircraft with no airstrip next to it.

Now if your point was that PAC (you thinking it's civilian) has its own "civilian" runway. You are wrong. PAC is PAF's property and is served by PAF Base Minhas whose premises it resides in. Rest you can find using Google Maps as i cannot and will not paste Maps here.

Regards,
Sapper