Jet Engine Production in Pakistan

[ejaz007]

Turbines are dual use technology in use in electricity generation. The principles remain the same. Similarly we have larger airliners which can be manufactured locally. The oint is at some stage we will have to take that step. The real question is when and at what cost and by whom, ie Government or private sector.
A

The government/PAF at the moment does not have their eyes set on establishing any such type of facility.

The private sector would take into consideration the expected revenue against the investment required.

 

[PakSword]

Give scholarships to top 20 graduated engineers of each engineering departments of the government universities . Send them for masters and Phd to Germany , USA , Russia , Japan ,France and many other developed countries.There may be 1500 candidates in every year of different engineering departments. one billion dollar is sufficient for scholarships .

They will not come back!

We should make this first:

 

[araz]

The government/PAF at the moment does not have their eyes set on establishing any such type of facility.

The private sector would take into consideration the expected revenue against the investment required.

It is a cost benefit exercise. Initial costs are the setting up odf a specialized steel plant which could run into billions of dollars. R&D setup would then have to be established while we gain maturity. it is not an easy route to take and ancillary benefits may have to be considered. This is a long awaited step and needs to happen at some time, but when people are busy looting who wants to build. There is no room for private sector to move in to such a niche market without tangible benefits being demonstrated to them.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

It is a cost benefit exercise. Initial costs are the setting up odf a specialized steel plant which could run into billions of dollars. R&D setup would then have to be established while we gain maturity. it is not an easy route to take and ancillary benefits may have to be considered. This is a long awaited step and needs to happen at some time, but when people are busy looting who wants to build. There is no room for private sector to move in to such a niche market without tangible benefits being demonstrated to them.
A

Sit it isn't a steel plant you need, rather a refinery plus a foundry. Then you need specialized machines for machining superalloys into desired shapes. And you need to master processes like annealing so that a given piece of metal has the required characteristics to bear loads in a given range. And this is just the beginning. You need to produce a system that reliably generates thrust in any orientation (against gravity, in line with gravity etc.) under any type of wind conditions, and in the presence of dust and other particulate matter, and under changing concentrations of oxygen and widely varying temperature and pressure. It is a huge challenge, and it shows the true mettle of a nation to accept this challenge and then work day and night to overcome it.

 

[araz]

Sit it isn't a steel plant you need, rather a refinery plus a foundry. Then you need specialized machines for machining superalloys into desired shapes. And you need to master processes like annealing so that a given piece of metal has the required characteristics to bear loads in a given range. And this is just the beginning. You need to produce a system that reliably generates thrust in any orientation (against gravity, in line with gravity etc.) under any type of wind conditions, and in the presence of dust and other particulate matter, and under changing concentrations of oxygen and widely varying temperature and pressure. It is a huge challenge, and it shows the true mettle of a nation to accept this challenge and then work day and night to overcome it.

Point noted but my limited understanding of the topic is that these are special alloys which we are currently unable to produce. Is this not the case or are you proposing an alternative source for the building material? Secondly as per Bilal khan777 even China currently does not have the ability to cut these alloys to specific shapes and therefore these materials are being procured from a third source.
So more questions then answers.
Araz

 

[CriticalThought]

Point noted but my limited understanding of the topic is that these are special alloys which we are currently unable to produce. Is this not the case or are you proposing an alternative source for the building material? Secondly as per Bilal khan777 even China currently does not have the ability to cut these alloys to specific shapes and therefore these materials are being procured from a third source.
So more questions then answers.
Araz

You are completely correct that ONE of the main problems is the production and cutting/machining of special alloys.

But China has recently mastered this production technology. It is called single crystal blade technology whereby a special alloy of nickel is grown as a single crystal of large size, then cut into specific shape required. China may have acquired the needed machinery from third party, I don't know the details. But they are producing the single crystal blades in-house now.

@wanglaokan

 

[帅的一匹]

You are completely correct that ONE of the main problems is the production and cutting/machining of special alloys.

But China has recently mastered this production technology. It is called single crystal blade technology whereby a special alloy of nickel is grown as a single crystal of large size, then cut into specific shape required. China may have acquired the needed machinery from third party, I don't know the details. But they are producing the single crystal blades in-house now.

@wanglaokan

China can churn out second/third generation single crystal blade by domestic machinery.

 

[araz]

China can churn out second/third generation single crystal blade by domestic machinery.

The rate of WS10 Production does not yet prove your assertions right. I have no doubt that this stage will also be passed by the Chinese but currently they cannot keep up with the demand of the engines.
A

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

I read somewhere in webio that pakistan will produce ws19 along with fc-31 ....... I wonder ....if that is what is behind all this thread ...

 

[Imad.Khan]

You should learn from our Kavery jet engine development. Three decades of experience but no product yet. And we poured resources and sought foreign TOT to make it but failed meserably. To put it mildly it was a dud from start to finish. It is a complex system of engineering and technology only few countries have mastered it. For many Indians this bitter truth is hard to digest.

Its far better to have tried and failed then not try at all. Atleast i give credit to India that they made an attempt. Also i am sure the knowledge that they would have gained would have been immense. Who knows maybe on the next attempt they will succeed.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Out of India Pakistan issue, making engine is something these two countries need to invest it for next 30 years to have some best results

India might get ahead sooner but it is a sustained effort. Not only jet engines but other kind of engines.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It seems like most of you posters have no understanding f the concept---.

What aircraft engine you want to develop---commercial or fighter aircraft---and then what generation engine you want to develop.

The bottomline is---pakistan cannot develop an engine---no foundations and no base to start---.

Even china had to build on foreign engines and use their technology to manufacture its own---.

Commercial engine technology is not successful in fighter aircraft engine---.

Fighter aircraft engine is a totally different breed of animal---.

The fighter aircraft engines operate on different principals of operation---stress and fatigue---than the commercial aircraft engines---.

The lineage of both these engines is not the same---the stresses that a fighter aircraft engine parts see and go thru---the commercial aircraft engines do not even come close to even a 100th part of those stresses.

Before posting---the posters need to look into what the differences are and what does it take----just writing----

" it is better to have tried than not "---or similar comments is a bit silly---.

It means that you do not know and nor do you understand your military industrial complex---.

It is very obvious that pak military does not take half baked / next to impossible tasks---so that they can look good to the pakistani youth---. They take on realistic tasks which are possible in their limited resources and technical knowledge---.

 

[jupiter2007]

Do we have the capability to make motorcycle engine?

 

[帅的一匹]

The rate of WS10 Production does not yet prove your assertions right. I have no doubt that this stage will also be passed by the Chinese but currently they cannot keep up with the demand of the engines.
A

The engine production is not only about crystal blade brother.

 

[BRAVO_]

i beg to differ with many members in this thread, i believe necessity is the mother of invention and result could be observed interms of iranian made OWJ jet engine, iran was in dire need of domestically built defense related products, though this engine is for OWJ training aircraft, yet a big achievement

https://www.defenceaviation.com/2016/09/meet-owj-irans-first-indigenous-fighter-jet-engine.html
beside that i am agreed with Mastankhan that it is not just manufacturing the engine, but what type of engine is the most important thing, first of all pakistan must have knowledge base and then an industrial setup ........or reverse engineering is the easiest way to go froward