Jesus won’t save you — President Xi Jinping will, Chinese Christians told

[gambit]

If so when Jesus created a bad person, then Jesus is bad too, the Jesus should be responsible for his bad and should be jailed too. If they argued Jesus created bad person by mistake, then Jesus is not god, because He is still like human who make mistakes. That is a flaw in Christian.

That is a juvenile understanding of Christian theology. What you missed is 'free will'. God created mankind. To put it simply, it is free will that make a person 'good' or 'bad'.

even Einstein believed in a god but he didn't believe in any earthly religion because he knew they were all full of flaws and created by man himself.

Where was China for over 200 yrs, the same time that the US existed, in science ? YOU effectively placed all of science's progress on the shoulders of atheists.

But there is a catch...

When people talk of 'atheists', they usually mean atheists in relation to Christianity. Not necessarily in relation to Bhuddism or Shintoism or any other religious 'isms'. Usually to Christianity.

That mean China without Christianity should have been the shiny star of science and technology, no ? So explain to me why the microwave oven did not come from China. Am not talking about mass production of the device. Am talking about the conceptualization of using microwave freqs to heat food. Why did it not came from China when China had almost no Christians back then ?

 

[grandmaster]

That is a juvenile understanding of Christian theology. What you missed is 'free will'. God created mankind. To put it simply, it is free will that make a person 'good' or 'bad'.

.
I don't know what is 'free will'. in https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-free-will/: "These Bible verses about free will show us that we have the ability to choose and have faith in God, being secure in our eternal life in heaven, or we can choose to turn from God and live apart from Him."
This Free will concept is also a flaw. It means God give mankind this ability free to do bad. and God has no ability to control what he is doing. People steal, people are selfish, people evil like Hitler, people tell lie, people rape, etc. is also because God give them this ability. And so, when people do bad, God has a part in that and so God is a conspirator too. this is a big flaw. that is why I don't blindly believe in Christian.

 

[gambit]

.
I don't know what is 'free will'. in https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-free-will/: "These Bible verses about free will show us that we have the ability to choose and have faith in God, being secure in our eternal life in heaven, or we can choose to turn from God and live apart from Him."
This Free will concept is also a flaw. It means God give mankind this ability free to do bad. and God has no ability to control what he is doing. People steal, people are selfish, people evil like Hitler, people tell lie, people rape, etc. is also because God give them this ability. And so, when people do bad, God has a part in that and so God is a conspirator too. this is a big flaw.

That does not mean God is evil or even flawed.

If you want to discredit the Christian notion of god, you cannot do it within the context of Christian theology. You have to go outside of that theology. But then the problem for you is that there is no standard on what make up a 'god' for which you can use to judge the Christian God. So far, no one has returned from the afterlife to tell us what it is like. In the absence of that, we have no acceptable notion on what is a 'god', let alone how this 'god' is supposed to behave.

So within the context of Christian theology, God is perfect. He created mankind and gave them free will. To either obey or disobey is entirely up to them. If a person chose to do evil, that is not a reflection on God.

If you do not understand the concept of 'free will', then, to say it kindly, you do not belong in any discussion about religion.

 

[seesonic]

That does not mean God is evil or even flawed.

If you want to discredit the Christian notion of god, you cannot do it within the context of Christian theology. You have to go outside of that theology. But then the problem for you is that there is no standard on what make up a 'god' for which you can use to judge the Christian God. So far, no one has returned from the afterlife to tell us what it is like. In the absence of that, we have no acceptable notion on what is a 'god', let alone how this 'god' is supposed to behave.

So within the context of Christian theology, God is perfect. He created mankind and gave them free will. To either obey or disobey is entirely up to them. If a person chose to do evil, that is not a reflection on God.

If you do not understand the concept of 'free will', then, to say it kindly, you do not belong in any discussion about religion.

You forgot to mention the almighty plan he has for everyone.

Free will and his plan doesnt go hand in hand no matter how you interpret or argue.

You cannot choose to be selective in your argument. But.. isnt that what being a christian is all about? Selective reading, selective understanding.

 

[Well.wisher]

Allah is the saviour not jesus

 

[gambit]

You forgot to mention the almighty plan he has for everyone.

Free will and his plan doesnt go hand in hand no matter how you interpret or argue.

You cannot choose to be selective in your argument. But.. isnt that what being a christian is all about? Selective reading, selective understanding.

No, I did not 'forgot'. You -- just like the other guy -- have a grossly simplistic understanding of Christian theology.

In Christian theology, if God 'has a plan', it does not equate to fate or predestination.

What is the difference between 'fate' and 'destiny' ?

Fate is where you have no control.

Destiny is -- in a mater of perspective -- is what you are meant to do. For example, if you are tall and athletic, maybe basketball is in your life. You can chose not to play basketball and this is where destiny is not fate. On the other hand, if you chose to play basketball, your natural traits will give advantages over others.

In Christian theology, God has the power to do whatever he wants with you. He can make you a criminal and then punish you for your sins if he want to. But in Christian theology, fate is more a consequence of your actions -- which came from free will -- rather than from God's planning for you.

I will give you a simplified example...

Say you come to a fork in the road. On the right is paved and on the left is unpaved. You will have no difficulty walking on the paved road. But on the unpaved road, you will stumble as you travel.

In Christian theology, if God has a 'plan' for you, it is more like consequences rather than plans. If you touch fire, you will get burned according to the laws of nature. You are an air breathing mammal, so if you CHOSE to open your airways under water, you will drown. For the Christian God, if you chose X, he will have consequences for X. Same for Y and Z.

 

[seesonic]

No, I did not 'forgot'. You -- just like the other guy -- have a grossly simplistic understanding of Christian theology.

In Christian theology, if God 'has a plan', it does not equate to fate or predestination.

What is the difference between 'fate' and 'destiny' ?

Fate is where you have no control.

Destiny is -- in a mater of perspective -- is what you are meant to do. For example, if you are tall and athletic, maybe basketball is in your life. You can chose not to play basketball and this is where destiny is not fate. On the other hand, if you chose to play basketball, your natural traits will give advantages over others.

In Christian theology, God has the power to do whatever he wants with you. He can make you a criminal and then punish you for your sins if he want to. But in Christian theology, fate is more a consequence of your actions -- which came from free will -- rather than from God's planning for you.

I will give you a simplified example...

Say you come to a fork in the road. On the right is paved and on the left is unpaved. You will have no difficulty walking on the paved road. But on the unpaved road, you will stumble as you travel.

In Christian theology, if God has a 'plan' for you, it is more like consequences rather than plans. If you touch fire, you will get burned according to the laws of nature. You are an air breathing mammal, so if you CHOSE to open your airways under water, you will drown. For the Christian God, if you chose X, he will have consequences for X. Same for Y and Z.

Wrong. You contradict yourself.

There nothing called fate and destiny in the eyes of god.

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

 

[kuge]

Allah is the saviour not jesus

perhaps according to koran but not with the bible who states unerringly he is the messiah who will return to rule the world.

 

[Well.wisher]

perhaps according to koran but not with the bible who states unerringly he is the messiah who will return to rule the world.

He'll surely return but only as a prophet . Whatever power he'll have , it'll be with the will of Allah .
Allah is the only one who has the absolute power . The only one and the most powerful .

 

[kasper95]

He'll surely return but only as a prophet . Whatever power he'll have , it'll be with the will of Allah .
Allah is the only one who has the absolute power . The only one and the most powerful .

In china it's xi jinping who has the absolute power and not anyone else

 

[Well.wisher]

In china it's xi jinping who has the absolute power and not anyone else

He's just a human ruler and also has limited powers as described by his constitution . He hasn't absolute power , his powers are defined by the constitution and rules . If he tries to break the rules , he loses all power .

 

[kuge]

let set the record straight.

Act 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,
Act 17:25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
Act 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
Act 17:27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

..........in v.26...that the present nation boundaries are determined by the high one. (he also determines which presidents in charge)

Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."
Act 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, "We will hear you again about this."

.......the high one will send a man to return to earth to judge the nations & the assurance is "he has raised the messiah from the dead.".....

is there any one man who was dead & is alive again forver?

 

[grandmaster]

That does not mean God is evil or even flawed.

If you want to discredit the Christian notion of god, you cannot do it within the context of Christian theology. You have to go outside of that theology. But then the problem for you is that there is no standard on what make up a 'god' for which you can use to judge the Christian God. So far, no one has returned from the afterlife to tell us what it is like. In the absence of that, we have no acceptable notion on what is a 'god', let alone how this 'god' is supposed to behave.

So within the context of Christian theology, God is perfect. He created mankind and gave them free will. To either obey or disobey is entirely up to them. If a person chose to do evil, that is not a reflection on God.

If you do not understand the concept of 'free will', then, to say it kindly, you do not belong in any discussion about religion.

That is excuse, because there is no standard of what is god, then I can say what god did and characteristics of god are evil and god is demon is still true. You said "So far, no one has returned from the afterlife to tell us what it is like." That means Christian does not know what is god. They just guess or hear and blindly believe . If there were God and God was perfect then within the context of Christian theology, it must be perfect. It must be perfect within theology and in reality. If one is of these is not perfect, it means god still has something not perfect, and hence God is not perfect.

 

[gambit]

That is excuse, because there is no standard of what is god, then I can say what god did and characteristics of god are evil and god is demon is still true. You said "So far, no one has returned from the afterlife to tell us what it is like." That means Christian does not know what is god. They just guess or hear and blindly believe . If there were God and God was perfect then within the context of Christian theology, it must be perfect. It must be perfect within theology and in reality. If one is of these is not perfect, it means god still has something not perfect, and hence God is not perfect.

But this -- highlighted -- is where you are wrong.

The concept of 'free will' by itself is not a flaw. If you posit that free will is a flaw, then you are saying a robot is perfect since it can only do what it is programmed to do. The computer that I am using to debate you is perfect since it can only do what I tell it to do within the context of its operating system.

That mean your computer is perfect, but you are not.

 

[grandmaster]

But this -- highlighted -- is where you are wrong.

The concept of 'free will' by itself is not a flaw. If you posit that free will is a flaw, then you are saying a robot is perfect since it can only do what it is programmed to do. The computer that I am using to debate you is perfect since it can only do what I tell it to do within the context of its operating system.

That mean your computer is perfect, but you are not.

Cannot talk robot like this. The robot is not perfect because robot does not have soul, morals, emotion, feeling, etc. Robot cannot be even compared to human. How can compare robot to God? Unless you agree God does not know what is morals, feelings of doing bad, he does not know Hitler killed many people is bad. If so, God is not perfect and God is just like Robot.