Jerusalem Post: The Turkish saga

[-SINAN-]

You have problems with Erdoğan dictating, while he's a chosen leader.
You have no problems with the army's dictates.

I seriously don't like your unconditional support to Erdogan in every topic and thread. I have yet to see you, critic him in any subject.

 

[-SINAN-]

Not even us !

Don't be sad. That's just a common saying in Turkey.

The exact sentence is "Turk have no other friend than Turk"

 

[Solomon2]

The Zionist Propaganda machinery is in full swing destroying democratically elected governments in the Middle Est. This shows the HYPOCRISY OF THE ZIONIST.

If you're talking about me personally say so. If you're talking about Zionists in general: I really don't know if there are others like me, I'm think I may have been the only one demonstrating for democracy in Egypt. (I think that's because most Zionists are jaded and believe that Arabs and Muslims like yourself have been so imbued with Jew-hatred that it doesn't matter what government they've got, they will still hate and seek to kill Jews.) In which case your charge of "hypocrisy" can only apply to me.

Zionists have proven true friends of Turkey time and again. Until Erdogan the reverse was also true. Since so many Turks want to dump him, maybe afterward things will start returning to normal.

Their idea of Democracy is when their puppet wins.

Have you ever thought it's more likely as far as pro-democrat Turks and Egyptians are concerned that I'm one of their "puppets" rather than them being mine?

 

[Pakistanisage]

If you're talking about me personally say so. If you're talking about Zionists in general: I really don't know if there are others like me, I'm think I may have been the only one demonstrating for democracy in Egypt. (I think that's because most Zionists are jaded and believe that Arabs and Muslims like yourself have been so imbued with Jew-hatred that it doesn't matter what government they've got, they will still hate and seek to kill Jews.) In which case your charge of "hypocrisy" can only apply to me.

Zionists have proven true friends of Turkey time and again. Until Erdogan the reverse was also true. Since so many Turks want to dump him, maybe afterward things will start returning to normal.

Have you ever thought it's more likely as far as pro-democrat Turks and Egyptians are concerned that I'm one of their "puppets" rather than them being mine?

Why do I get this sense that we keep going around in circles.

I really don't know how else to set you straight on this Anti-Jewish issue.

I challenge you to show me one post or thread of mine that has an Anti-Jewish theme to it.

I love the Jewish people. We Muslims share a lot of history with the Jews. Many of our Prophets companions were Jews.

I have dear friends who are Jews that I love and admire dearly.

My beef is with the Zionist who stole Palestinian land and ran them out of their Land.

May be some day you will learn that every Jewish person is not necessarily a Zionist like yourself.

So I guess in the end we have an impasse because we keep repeating same old tired Cliches and fail to communicate.

 

[olcayto]

I seriously don't like your unconditional support to Erdogan in every topic and thread. I have yet to see you, critic him in any subject.

Unconditional support?

No mate it has nothing to do with that. İ actually try to avoid political threads as much as possible, just for the fact that we Turks can't discuss political matters in a appropriate way.
The reason that İ posted in this thread was more because of the biased thread opener and then got sucked in again.

The reason İ had to put erdo in my comment again was actually you.

Anyway, you seem to be very fond of me today. What's the problem bro?

 

[-SINAN-]

Anyway, you seem to be very fond of me today. What's the problem bro?

Yeah, sorry. Let's forget it.

 

[Worf]

As long as the Arabic countries carry on like this, the ME will be the back garden of Israel.

 

[Solomon2]

I challenge you to show me one post or thread of mine that has an Anti-Jewish theme to it...My beef is with the Zionist who stole Palestinian land and ran them out of their Land.

Well, half of the Jews on Earth are Israelis and the narrative you stick to doesn't jibe with the facts in context. So this post of yours is, itself, a calumny with an anti-Jewish theme to it.

I have dear friends who are Jews that I love and admire dearly.

This crops up often from antisemites: I have Jewish friends, but I hate the Jews or Zionists. So Jews who aren't your friends - those you don't know or like - the path you're following is the one that supports those who want to murder them.
There are other antisemites in the world who have Jewish friends and feel the same way. The trick the Nazi leadership used was to send their followers into cities away from their hometowns. Then they wouldn't be slaying their own friends. But of course everybody's Jewish "friends" still ended up very dead.

Moral: Rights are more important than "tolerance" or "having friends".

May be some day you will learn that every Jewish person is not necessarily a Zionist like yourself.

That's one of the strengths of Judaism. We have these internal debates. If you disagree with one Jewish community or denomination you can usually find a home in another. Opinions and practices are not fixed in stone. One is not compelled to follow one's parents ways or practices. A generation-to-generation propagation of error can thus be corrected.

we have an impasse because we keep repeating same old tired Cliches and fail to communicate.

No, I think you're just not doing your homework: you're unwilling to dig for the true facts in context and admit to them in public, or at least here.

You're not alone in this. As I pointed out earlier, Pakistani diplomats clued me in on this forty years back. They rationalized their silence then by thinking in terms of duty. They missed the idea that they might have served their country better had they risked or resigned from their posts to tell the truth to the nation they represented.

 

[Medic2]

If you're talking about me personally say so. If you're talking about Zionists in general: I really don't know if there are others like me, I'm think I may have been the only one demonstrating for democracy in Egypt. (I think that's because most Zionists are jaded and believe that Arabs and Muslims like yourself have been so imbued with Jew-hatred that it doesn't matter what government they've got, they will still hate and seek to kill Jews.) In which case your charge of "hypocrisy" can only apply to me.

Zionists have proven true friends of Turkey time and again. Until Erdogan the reverse was also true. Since so many Turks want to dump him, maybe afterward things will start returning to normal.

Have you ever thought it's more likely as far as pro-democrat Turks and Egyptians are concerned that I'm one of their "puppets" rather than them being mine?

BINGO!

I was upset when Israel raided the ship, but it never warranted what Erdogan is doing. I really hope we can rekindle this relationship with both Israel and the US.

 

[Tshering22]

Why yours to? Your country doing just fine as far as i know,or am i missing something?

That is what they want the world to look at it like.

There is almost virtual promotion of communal attacks against the silent majority community of non-Muslims and the government looks the other way, indirectly promoting Islamic radicalization of unspeakable proportions.

It is almost like an ongoing war for centuries silently under the illusion of normalcy.

 

[Solomon2]

I was upset when Israel raided the ship, but it never warranted what Erdogan is doing.

Do you understand that if you had protested against Erdogan's lies and deceptions after the Mavi Marmara incident you wouldn't have to fight the battle you're fighting against him now?

 

[Medic2]

Do you understand that if you had protested against Erdogan's lies and deceptions after the Mavi Marmara incident you wouldn't have to fight the battle you're fighting against him now?

How did that conquest for WMD's turn out in Iraq there, ol'cowboy? Ignorant Americans should have fought harder against deception right? I never held the American public to the disastrous campaign outcomes in the ME. Don't point fingers at my country when yours is equally guilty of being deceived.

Hind sight is 20/20. At the time it was apparent he leaned a little more towards Islamism, but it had not reached the audacious levels of the recent past - it was a relative trade off for increasing economic prosperity and standard of living. At that point him claiming it was a humanitarian effort was far more believable than if he tried to pull the same thing today.

Judging from the two flags on your avatar, and your unprovoked confrontational tone, I dont expect you to acknowledge that it could have been believable that Israel might have had some fault or ever done anything wrong. I am perfectly comfortable criticizing my own leader/country if required.

 

[Solomon2]

How did that conquest for WMD's turn out in Iraq there, ol'cowboy? Ignorant Americans should have fought harder against deception right?

I don't think it was a deception; it was a mistake by analysts. So "equally guilty" charge doesn't apply. It's not difficult to dig and see this. Why bring it up now?

Hind sight is 20/20. At the time it was apparent he leaned a little more towards Islamism, but it had not reached the audacious levels of the recent past - it was a relative trade off for increasing economic prosperity and standard of living. At that point him claiming it was a humanitarian effort was far more believable than if he tried to pull the same thing today.

You're waking up, it seems, but are you so sure Erdo won't find another way of manipulating Turkish pride into blind nationalism so he can grab more power?

...I dont expect you to acknowledge that it could have been believable that Israel might have had some fault or ever done anything wrong. I am perfectly comfortable criticizing my own leader/country if required.

I saw the videos and pictures and listened to the radio traffic between the MM and the Israelis that the first U.N. investigation pretended didn't exist because they exonerate Israel's conduct 100%.

I suggest you re-visit the MM affair and research Erdo's questionable conduct in the matter. Some of it is available right here at PDF. There isn't a danger of the military overthrowing him any more (I think) but revelations published in the Turkish-language press can be applied to severely discredit him politically. This is his great fear and likely the primary reason why he wants Israel to take 100% ownership of fault in the matter and is siding further with the more extreme Islamists.

 

[Medic2]

I don't think it was a deception; it was a mistake by analysts. So "equally guilty" charge doesn't apply. It's not difficult to dig and see this. Why bring it up now?

You're waking up, it seems.

How ironic. By the way, hows Mr. Snowden doing?

 

[Solomon2]

How ironic. By the way, hows Mr. Snowden doing?

Oh, I get it! You're attempting to make me feel as embarrassed as you feel. Um, no, I don't think that's going to work. Nor will it help: it's up to you whether you want to stay blinded or not.

Sorry, it's not my goal to embarrass people but through education for them to achieve self-realization. That can be a painful experience. However, this is an anonymous forum so such things can be kept to a minimum.