japans-5th-generation-stealth-fighter-plane-to-take-off-in-february

[ChineseTiger1986]

By using your comment as a logic, that means the South Koreans also tried to copy the F-22, but all they can get is the KF-X.

Korea Aerospace Industries agrees KFX investment deal with Indonesia | IHS Jane's 360

Because they are both toddlers in the modern aerospace industry.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Because they are both toddlers in the modern aerospace industry.

But sooner or later, the Japanese and South Korean aerospace industry will soon mature that either of the two can challenge China, Russia and the West in aerospace field.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But sooner or later, the Japanese and South Korean aerospace industry will soon mature that either of the two can challenge China, Russia and the West in aerospace field.

It is unlikely that Sam Uncle will allow this to happen.

US Prevents S.Korea From Displaying T-50 jets At Zhuhai Air Show

 

[Daniel808]

Unlikely, my country use leopard 2 revolution wkwwkwk......leo 2a4 revo will eat any chinese type 2000

Why?? Can't handle the reality!! Lol
Chinese type 2000 is no match for western made mbt

Pffttt rubbish lol hahaha...

Right know, China Army Main Battle Tank Flagship for their Frontline Armored Division is Type99A2.
and That's Truly a Monster Tank, with 1,500 HP Chinese Indigeneous Engine, based on the German MTU 871 Ka-501 technology.

Featuring an improved composite armor over the front of the hull and turret, the Type 99A2 has a new shaped modular front on its turret. The vehicle is fitted with a new Explosive Reactive Armour that is believed to be capable of defeating tandem charged (x2 warheads in the missile) Anti-Tank weapons.

The new ERA is mounted along the sides of the turret and continues along the side of the stowage racks for increased protection. The ERA is also mounted across the front of the hull.

The vehicle is equipped with smoke grenade launchers, NBC system and fire suppression system in the fighting compartments.

There has been much speculation on the type of new Active Protection System the Type 99A2 would be installed.

The new system does not have any visual “hard-kill” launchers. Mounted on the roof is a traversable laser detection and jamming device, which is believed to have a ZM87 capability (the ability to blind an enemy gunner). It has the ability to be elevated to a high angle to jam anti-tank helicopters.

Before you calling Other Country Tank Rubbish, you must learn it.
Think with your Brain, not your Big Mouth.

By the way, Chinese Can Produce Their Type 99A2 MBT, with their own Huge Industrial Capability.
In other way, we buy Leopard 2 Tanks from Germany. Yes, in the future maybe our Industrial Defence (Pindad) can Produce Medium Tank with Foreign assistance.
But, Honestly it still no match to Chinese Industrial Tank Capability.

They can Produce Hundreds of Type99A2 MBT with their own Industrial Capability.
and if Conflict come, We don't know Germany will Constantly Supply us with Leopard 2 Tanks. Maybe We can give Germany One Billion Dollars to buy Leopard 2 Tanks, but Chinese have Greater Influence in Germany Economy, and China Can Give Tens of Billion Dollars Investment to Germany Economy, and Open tens of thousands of Jobs there.

Yesterday, China just bought Krauss-Maffei Group Corporation from Germany.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/business/dealbook/chemchina-krauss-maffei.html?_r=0

And also before you say about our 103 Leopard 2 Tanks vs Chinese Type99A2 MBT.
We must talking about Air Forces Power from Both Countries, and also Our Air Cover Ability to Provide Support to our Armored Division.
China can Produce Thousands of this Fighter Aircraft with their own Industrial Capability

You cannot just send Tanks to Battlefield without Enough Air Cover.
Look at, what American Air Forces do to thousands of Iraqi Tanks in Gulf War.

And Honestly, I must say.
Our Air Forces Capability today is Still no match to China Air Forces.
Yes, we have Good Modernization Program to our Military. But, Please Don't be Arrogant !

Arrogant behaviour is the Biggest Weakness itself, little kids.

 

[Indos]

You cannot just send Tanks to Battlefield without Enough Air Cover.
Look at, what American Air Forces do to thousands of Iraqi Tanks in Gulf War.

The next potential conflict is SCS though and with the time China strengthen their present there, Indonesia is also likely strengthening his position day by day.

I can say that in 2020 is the "quite crucial moment" and not now, I say 2020 is crucial because according to my analysis, no way China become so bold in SCS conflict during 2016-2020 time.

And talking about 2020 time, Indonesia military is beginning to be more balance in term of Air Force/Naval Force/Land Force. Based on confirmed acquisition plan that we have heard Today, we will have 32 Su 27/30/(16 Su 35), and 33 F 16 (23 block 52).

That strength in Air Force will be accompanied with already the biggest Naval power in SEA (3 Changbogo class submarines will likely be delivered ( current subs and frigates get modernized as Jane defense has been confirming) along with 4 New Sigma Class frigates, plus 8 Apache Guardian which has Naval strike capability along with its 140 hellfire missiles.

That power is enough to make balance of power at SCS in the time where USA presense is actually still strong. Air Force and Naval Force are two most important factor if we considered Indonesia comes to SCS conflict (which is of course unlikely). But, even in a period of 2020-2024, I also see that USA present will be quite strong in SCS and China will not want dispute happened due to economic reasons.

After 2024, USA is likely starting to pull back from SCS region that make China has more options in SCS conflict. And this time with more powerful domestic market economy and possibly better ally in international politics and finance sector.

And for Indonesia, at that time I predict more Su 35 will likely be bought since Russia requirement for Indonesia to have its own Sukhoi maintenance (and spare part) facility is to buy at least 32 Su 35. And as our budget is likely to grow as well, so what I said here can be seen as a minimal acquisition for Indonesia during that time.

For the military planner, long range and big Su 35 will be a very good combination with KFX/IFX fighter, and it is already been read by our planner that can bee seen through current KFX/IFX project, revealing that Indonesia will make its own data link that will connect his KFX/IFX with Sukhoi fighters. All F 16 will soon be replaced by KFX/IFX if the program end up success.

So, actually Indonesia is catching up and will not be easily taken down, and dont forget our close relationship with Russia currently. After 2024, this is the time where KFX/IFX will likely be bought in hundred ( if the program is success and our economy keep expanding).

Despite that, I dont think that Indonesia and China will be face to face militarily in SCS conflict as we are not part of the disputed claimants there. What we do is only to give power of balance in South East Asia region as China will become part of it in the future ( as it is already Today). This power of balance in the region will give more confidence to any businesses wanting to invest in SEA for long period, and give stability to the crucial energy and trade route as Indonesia sea route will likely to be opened and secured as alternative route in case SCS becomes a hot zone later as we (likely) have the adequate power to protect it for very long period of time.

 

[Daniel808]

The next potential conflict is SCS though and with the time China strengthen their present there, Indonesia is also likely strengthening his position day by day.

I can say that in 2020 is the "quite crucial moment" and not now, I say 2020 is crucial because according to my analysis, no way China become so bold in SCS conflict during 2016-2020 time.

And talking about 2020 time, Indonesia military is beginning to be more balance in term of Air Force/Naval Force/Land Force. Based on confirmed acquisition plan that we have heard Today, we will have 32 Su 27/30/(16 Su 35), and 33 F 16 (23 block 52).

That strength in Air Force will be accompanied with already the biggest Naval power in SEA (3 Changbogo class submarines will likely be delivered ( current subs and frigates get modernized as Jane defense has been confirming) along with 4 New Sigma Class frigates, plus 8 Apache Guardian which has Naval strike capability along with its 140 hellfire missiles.

That power is enough to make balance of power at SCS in the time where USA presense is actually still strong. Air Force and Naval Force are two most important factor if we considered Indonesia comes to SCS conflict (which is of course unlikely). But, even in a period of 2020-2024, I also see that USA present will be quite strong in SCS and China will not want dispute happened due to economic reasons.

After 2024, USA is likely starting to pull back from SCS region that make China has more options in SCS conflict. And this time with more powerful domestic market economy and possibly better ally in international politics and finance sector.

And for Indonesia, at that time I predict more Su 35 will likely be bought since Russia requirement for Indonesia to have its own Sukhoi maintenance (and spare part) facility is to buy at least 32 Su 35. And as our budget is likely to grow as well, so what I said here can be seen as a minimal acquisition for Indonesia during that time.

For the military planner, long range and big Su 35 will be a very good combination with KFX/IFX fighter, and it is already been read by our planner that can bee seen through current KFX/IFX project, revealing that Indonesia will make its own data link that will connect his KFX/IFX with Sukhoi fighters. All F 16 will soon be replaced by KFX/IFX if the program end up success.

So, actually Indonesia is catching up and will not be easily taken down, and dont forget our close relationship with Russia currently. After 2024, this is the time where KFX/IFX will likely be bought in hundred ( if the program is success and our economy keep expanding).

Despite that, I dont think that Indonesia and China will be face to face militarily in SCS conflict as we are not part of the disputed claimants there. What we do is only to give power of balance in South East Asia region as China will become part of it in the future ( as it is already Today). This power of balance in the region will give more confidence to any businesses wanting to invest in SEA for long period, and give stability to the crucial energy and trade route as Indonesia sea route will likely to be opened and secured as alternative route in case SCS becomes a hot zone later as we (likely) have the adequate power to protect it for very long period of time.

I am just give response to our Countrymen who have really Big Mouth and act So Arrogant, and tell other country weapons is Rubbish. Without Learn more about it.

Yes, Indonesia and China right know have Good Relationship and Economic Dependence between each other.
and also Indonesia is not One claimant of South China Sea Dispute.
So, there is very little Possibility of a Clash between Indonesia and China.

But, to give Explanation to Our Countrymen who have a Big Mouth and think can Defeat China Military Very Easily.
I will kindly give Explanation to him, how size of China Military is.

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

J-16:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = 28 J-16

J-10:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: 304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15:
10 + 5 = 15 J-15

J-11B:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: 78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total: 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: 240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL:
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft

Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- J-10C
- J-16
- J-15

Credit to @SinoSoldier
That's the size of China Air Force today.
Note : That's just 4/4.5 Gen Fighter Aircraft, not including Transport, Strategic Bomber, AWACS Aircraft, etc.

and in 2020, I don't know about Size of China Air Force, but J-11D, J-15, J-16, J-10 B/C, and J-20 is in Full Production today in their Aircraft Factory.
and if you talking about 2024, maybe in that time China already Develop their 6th Gen Fighter.

And about Russia, We don't know They will Keep Constantly Supply us with Sukhois Spare part.
In Peace time, Yes of course.
But, in a time we have a "Conflict/War" with China, That's will become Different.

And Like I said before, maybe We can Give One Billion Dollar to Russia to Buy their Sukhois, But China Can Give more to them, and with China Economic Power, they can Give tens of Billions of Dollar to Russia, and also Dozens of Investment in Infrastructure Project.
That's the Power of Economic Influence.

And just for Note : China is one of the Closest Ally that Russia have today.

And about Navy, China today have 6x Type 052C Destroyer, and 4x Type 052D Destroyer.
and 8 other Type 052D Destroyer are being built in their Naval Shipyards.
These Destroyer is very Deadly, have AEGIS like System, and in the same class and Firepower with Atago Class and Arleigh Burke Class.

And Their Second Aircraft Carrier is being built to and expected to launch in this year.
Their Third Aircraft Carrier is also will begin Constructions in March this year. Rumored to be the Nuclear one.
In 2020, at least 3-4 Their Aircraft Carriers will Finish Construction.

Also their First Aircraft Carrier, CNS Liaoning. is already Combat ready with their 16 J-15.
and will become fully Equipped with 24 J-15 in near term.

And also their Airport in Yongshu Island already become Operational and can be Equipped with J-10, J-11, JH-7 and even Bomber Xian H-6 to Provide Cover over South China Sea Sky.

and Honestly I must say, China really have a Upper Hand in terms of Air Force Capability over South China Sea sky.

Credit to @cnleio @Martian2 @ChineseTiger1986 @cirr @Deino and et al.

But, like you said, there is very little Possibility about China-Indonesia Conflict for Today and also for the Future.

And yes, We have good Modernization Program for our Military Forces (MEF).
and Hopefully in 2025 we will have the Biggest Military Forces in South East Asia region.


What I tell in here just for Explanation to our own Countrymen, Who act Very Arrogant, calling other Country Tanks Rubbish and think can easily Defeat China Military Power. @initial_d

 

[Aepsilons]

But sooner or later, the Japanese and South Korean aerospace industry will soon mature that either of the two can challenge China, Russia and the West in aerospace field.

Well , yes, that is the ultimate goal. But gradual steps, i suppose, is the most rational position. We don't like making unpractical plans or , better yet, we don't like counting our chickens before the eggs hatch.

or, 取らぬタヌキの皮算用をするな。

I am just give response to our Countrymen who have really Big Mouth and act So Arrogant, and tell other country weapons is Rubbish. Without Learn more about it.

Yes, Indonesia and China right know have Good Relationship and Economic Dependence between each other.
and also Indonesia is not One claimant of South China Sea Dispute.
So, there is very little Possibility of a Clash between Indonesia and China.

But, to give Explanation to Our Countrymen who have a Big Mouth and think can Defeat China Military Very Easily.
I will kindly give Explanation to him, how size of China Military is.

Hello Daniel ,

Mind you that tho there are various claimants in the South China Sea region, the military bastions held by the Chinese legation, the Vietnamese legation, the Taiwanese legation, Malaysian legation and Filipino legation are all internally controlled. Tho , through western media dissemination, the situation may seem dire, there are actually various mechanisms and multilateral channels wherein the state departments of the respective claimant states that ensures coordination.

We have to understand that when we refer to the military strength of the Chinese military complex. However as a research academic, myself, I have noticed, from precedence of journal articles published and academic analysis of state to state interaction, the Chinese have also frequenlty used cooperative means to manage its territorial conflicts, revealing a pattern of behavior far more complex than many portray. In fact since 1949, China has settled seventeen of its twenty three territorial disputes. Morever, CHina has offered substantial compromises in most of these settlements, usually receiin less than 50 percent of the contested land. For me, as a Japanese academic and researcher, the patern of comproise in China's territorial disputes presents several puzzles and tho it shows that China, a power that is growing with immense economic clout by her own right, shows to us that China has not used its power advantage to bargain hard over contested land, especially with its weaker neighbor, rather, it has merely bolstered or strengthened its own position, not really engaging in violent exchange.

The analysis of how China behaves and handles disputes through nation state behavior bears on the future of the peace and stability of the Southeast Asian , to an extent the East Asian (and beyond). As it is behavior in territorial disputes is a fundamental indicator of whether a state is pursing the status quo or even revising the foreign policies thereof. In the case of China, China has recently compromised in eight separate disputes since the mid 1990s, even as its power has risen, which indicates her state-sponsored pragmatism.

We have to , as in any geopolitical analyses, my friend, differentiate the state policies reality from media-spurned conceptualization of tactical reality. I say it is far more fortuitous to stay away from media-conceptualized sensationalism and enable political state players do their part in the diplomatic process.

So what is my objective in writing this personal , quasi academic piece? That pragmatism , true to the Chinese state precedent, rules the day. The Chinese will , ultimately, come with a way to help stabilize the situation, and it will have to be the cooperation of other players to ensure this reality. Afterall it takes two to tango, right?

What is your view @TaiShang @Chinese-Dragon @Hamartia Antidote @LeveragedBuyout @SvenSvensonov @AUSTERLITZ @vostok @Penguin @Taygibay @mike2000 is back @Slav Defence @WAJsal @waz @nair @SpArK @Hakan @xenon54 @Lure et al.

What I tell in here just for Explanation to our own Countrymen, Who act Very Arrogant, calling other Country Tanks Rubbish and think can easily Defeat China Military Power. @initial_d

I wouldn't say arrogant, just an Indonesian patriot, my friend. When we appraise national sovereign abilities, we tend to give in to sensation and subjectivity, which is a natural characteristic in nationalist appropriations. We all tend to be guilty of this, i, myself, even, sometimes. Anyways, let's just move on forward without having to demean. Regards, my friend.

 

[waz]

I'm eagerly looking forward to the Shinshin!

 

[Taygibay]

What is your view . . . @Taygibay . . . et al.

I of course agree that China is more complex than what is portrayed in the media and evidenced on fora.

And if one just adds manipulation of media by politics and money to your passage,

We have to , as in any geopolitical analyses, my friend, differentiate the state policies reality from media-spurned conceptualization of tactical reality. I say it is far more fortuitous to stay away from media-conceptualized sensationalism and enable political state players do their part in the diplomatic process ...
even though the latter use the former to further their agenda. There, fixed that for you!

and understands how easy this process is rendered by a public opinion that invariably shows in any country
the memory of an Attention Deficit Disorder blonde squirrel on crack with Alzheimer, heck I agree entirely!

As an aside, that central airflow channel seems made to aid in lateral directability once the tail goes!
Could not work without TVC for all I know but still very interesting if true!

Good day and talking to/with you, man, Tay.

 

[cnleio]

@Daniel808 My personal suggestion, is let's see new updated version J-31 take off in 2016 ... we don't know much about the situation of other stealth prototype developing, but i only make sure it's not too long for China to sell the stealth fighter to foreign market like we sold others in past years. At least they should do better than F-35, J-31, T-50 and do qucikly before the market seized by these export stealth fighters from U.S, Russia, China ... anyways Good Luck ~!

China AVIC sold K-8, J-7, L-15, JF-17 next will selling J-31 & J-10B, the business continue ... A good business means How many fighters sold to foreign & How many foreign pilots not killed by aircraft crashs, absolutely not the big mouth in home.

Back to the topic, this's the Japan 'Shinshin' thread ... we also wanna see photos of 'Shinshin' prototype take off, we wanna know how the project going on and how the performance.

 

[TaiShang]

Mind you that tho there are various claimants in the South China Sea region, the military bastions held by the Chinese legation, the Vietnamese legation, the Taiwanese legation, Malaysian legation and Filipino legation are all internally controlled. Tho , through western media dissemination, the situation may seem dire, there are actually various mechanisms and multilateral channels wherein the state departments of the respective claimant states that ensures coordination.

We have to understand that when we refer to the military strength of the Chinese military complex. However as a research academic, myself, I have noticed, from precedence of journal articles published and academic analysis of state to state interaction, the Chinese have also frequenlty used cooperative means to manage its territorial conflicts, revealing a pattern of behavior far more complex than many portray. In fact since 1949, China has settled seventeen of its twenty three territorial disputes. Morever, CHina has offered substantial compromises in most of these settlements, usually receiin less than 50 percent of the contested land. For me, as a Japanese academic and researcher, the patern of comproise in China's territorial disputes presents several puzzles and tho it shows that China, a power that is growing with immense economic clout by her own right, shows to us that China has not used its power advantage to bargain hard over contested land, especially with its weaker neighbor, rather, it has merely bolstered or strengthened its own position, not really engaging in violent exchange.

The analysis of how China behaves and handles disputes through nation state behavior bears on the future of the peace and stability of the Southeast Asian , to an extent the East Asian (and beyond). As it is behavior in territorial disputes is a fundamental indicator of whether a state is pursing the status quo or even revising the foreign policies thereof. In the case of China, China has recently compromised in eight separate disputes since the mid 1990s, even as its power has risen, which indicates her state-sponsored pragmatism.

We have to , as in any geopolitical analyses, my friend, differentiate the state policies reality from media-spurned conceptualization of tactical reality. I say it is far more fortuitous to stay away from media-conceptualized sensationalism and enable political state players do their part in the diplomatic process.

So what is my objective in writing this personal , quasi academic piece? That pragmatism , true to the Chinese state precedent, rules the day. The Chinese will , ultimately, come with a way to help stabilize the situation, and it will have to be the cooperation of other players to ensure this reality. Afterall it takes two to tango, right?

Frankly, my friend, I am still happy to see the strengthening of nation state in East Asia (which in my opinion includes South East Asia) through economic, military and technological development. What I am most fearful of a lack/weakening of the state as has been carried out by the neoliberal imperialism in the West Asia and North Africa. If these island disputes are to result in the further strengthening of the state actors in our region, then that's a bitter pill I am willing to take.

We observe how the state in the said geographies is being undermined and compromised while borders become porous (Turkey-Syria) and landlordism and war-lordism take over the state's powers (Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc.). This is the neofascist (US-led) Western design of the region, a ploy into which we must not fall.

 

[Aepsilons]

We observe how the state in the said geographies is being undermined and compromised while borders become porous (Turkey-Syria) and landlordism and war-lordism take over the state's powers (Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc.). This is the neofascist (US-led) Western design of the region, a ploy into which we must not fall.

That is a gripping and sad , unfortunate situation going on in Western Asia, indeed, @TaiShang . The recent pouring of some 2 million undocumented, illegal, refugees from North Africa and West Asia , into the hinterland of Europe and now into Europe (afterall some 1.2 million refugees are now in Germany, of all places). This will not only cause civil strife as well as an inexplicable strain on civil resources to house and accommodate these refugees. Lessons learned in Europe, Africa, West Asia and to an extent in the United States (noting the porous Mexican-US border), the nation states in East Asia (Japan, China, Taiwan, South Korea , North Korea) need to ensure border security to prevent such instances from happening in our own borders. I suppose , in context to China, she has to ensure border security in her western frontier as well as her southwestern.

@TaiShang , given the severity of what is going on in Europe and the Near East / Middle East, it makes the territorial squabbles in the SCS and ES look rather infantile, doesn't it?

Anyways, i suppose we can be confident that Japan and China are mature enough to solve the situation, keep talking about the issues, exchanging possible solutions, and building checks to prevent unwanted , unecessary exigencies. We have to be confident that our respective government(s) will never allow it to go haywire as what's happening in other parts of the world, outside of Greater East Asian Region.

Thank G-D for that.

 

[Daniel808]

@Daniel808 My personal suggestion, is let's see new updated version J-31 take off in 2016 ... we don't know much about the situation of other stealth prototype developing, but i only make sure it's not too long for China to sell the stealth fighter to foreign market like we sold others in past years. At least they should do better than F-35, J-31, T-50 and do qucikly before the market seized by these export stealth fighters from U.S, Russia, China ... anyways Good Luck ~!

China AVIC sold K-8, J-7, L-15, JF-17 next will selling J-31 & J-10B, the business continue ... A good business means How many fighters sold to foreign & How many foreign pilots not killed by aircraft crashs, absolutely not the big mouth in home.
View attachment 286695 View attachment 286696 View attachment 286697 View attachment 286698



Back to the topic, this's the Japan 'Shinshin' thread ... we also wanna see photos of 'Shinshin' prototype take off, we wanna know how the project going on and how the performance.

Thanks bro @cnleio
Shenyang J-31 is indeed a Good 5th Gen Fighter.
and Honestly, I really want to see Indonesia Join Shenyang J-31 Project.
But,Right know, we are already Invest in KFX Program.

My personal opinion about J-31, is that Fighter will have Bright Future, and I cannot wait to see Shenyang J-31 with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Camo. That would be Amazing

L-15 is also have a Bright Future, many countries already ordered it.
and It's a Very beauty Advanced Trainer Aircraft

Type 052D Destroyer is also Very Powerful Aegis Type Destroyer. and Hope Someday Indonesia Shipyard (PAL) can have Joint Project with Chinese Shipyard to build that Sea Monster Lol

My Conclusion, China Defence Industry will have very Bright Future in the size of Export to other countries.

btw, let's get back to shinshin topic
@Nihonjin1051 sorry for little oot in your thread.
Good luck for Japan with their shinshin.