Japan imposes sanctions against Russia under US pressure — Tokyo Governor

[kolinsky]

For this point both

wow. cool bro. Good to know you served your country. So in Japan the government helps finance education for those who served, that's great. It does help attract skilled youths as well.



What's that bro?

The future is unpredictable, this is true, and the rise of threats to our interests (Asia-Pacific) are asymmetrical in nature. This is why it is important to have the mechanisms in place to address any emergencies. This is why I am very satisfied in Abe's decision to re-interpret Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, tho I am in the position that Abe should have just simply amended it. Nevertheless, his decision serves the same purpose.

Now, let me re-address my prior points:

1) I believe that Japan is intertwined to China due to economic and cultural reasons. Japan is probably more alike to China than any other country (well, besides Korea). Despite historical transgressions on Japan's part , the cultural links cannot be ignored. Even the Confucian ethic that is pervasive in Japanese and Chinese societies -- cannot be ignored. Trade will continue to increase between our two countries -- and as it stands, the bilateral trade between Japan and China is the largest in the region

2) Japan will retain (in the forseable future) her strategic relationship with the United States

3) Japan's defense modernization and defense expenditure is purely on a defensive nature. We don't even have a first strike initiative , and we have implemented a "no offensive" doctrine in the three branches of the SDF. Action can only take place after an attack -- this is bedrock of JSDF doctrine of national defense. (Tho there are elements in the SDF brass that would like to remove this).​

You should say some thing that other people can believe you.
For your first point, I am agree about that.

The second point. I am doubt about that, because ambitious of japanese can be reached only when japan defeats US. Japan is an ambitious country, you are not write innocent rabbits.

The third point, I think no body will believe that. K2 from Korea, I will believe them, they are purely on a defensive nature. Type 10? It is designed for airlifting. If Japan has no offencive tendency, type 10 should be heavier. Soryu submarine has a very large operating range, that is offencive. The max depth of Soryu is also not for the near sea of Japan, also not for the near sea of China. Not talking about the carriers built in Japan, obviously they are not for the 1000 km region. In this region they are almost useless. The question is where do you want to apply them? Who far away is your defence line? 2000,4000 km? So, i donot believe it, not against you, but your government. What are japs planning for？ I think the worries of @sincity is meaningful. The target of Japan is USA.

re interpret the 9th constitution is a very bad starting. I mean, what for a collective self defense? All your protential allies are allies of USA. When japan wants to apply collective self defense and USA does not, that will break the alliance between japan and USA. After the re interpretion, there are two HQs in japan USA alliance,whether this situation forms a competition between 2 HQs in the future is a very interesting thing. At the same time Abe announced that the japan is not a part under command of USA, which breaks the balance in last 70 years. I was astonished that USA support japan's decision. Yes, it is a way to tie down China, but the cost is very high. I think the americans will find this fact sooner or later. Obama government is always so stupid.

Maybe, japan will gain independence in 20 years by the HQ competition, that means your second point is impracticable and there are some small wars or conflicts that japan will be invovled. For the independence part, I am pro this, though our government plays a double standard here. All countries should be independent including japan, As the second outcome, I think the re-interpretion unlocked japan as a un-occupied zone in the future, unless japan is itself very strong, otherwise japan has a great risk to be reoccupied.

 

[kolinsky]

Abe in essence tried to project Japan as the leading role to propose the Asian United front to hedge against China but actually Abe carried out the order from the US pivot to Asia

If Abe want to be the leader, then let him be the leader. I mean that is interesting. As a leader, USA spend too much, if japan want to share the expenditure, let them go. Asia is not a region to be easily leaded. Who will take Japan as a leader? USA? China? Russia? North Korea? Japan leads the asia pacific. Are you kidding me? If Abe wants to be a leader , let him go, it is definitely a seppuku mission. That will shock the whole japanese marketing in Asia pacific. We will never be reluctently to share their profit.

 

[Aepsilons]

Japan society hold the view of themselves in high regard especially the culture superimpose on the believe Japanese is the superior race in their past war history, honestly not a single Japanese willing to be subjugate to any foreign force on their land. 2 US nuclear detonation in WW2 on Japanese soil with the unconditional surrender by Japan imperialist army, Japanese were forced to swallow their own bride which them chosen to be a subordinate to the US dominate in Japan government but not by the willingness of their government or their population especially in conducting world and foreign policy. With economy and military superpower of the US, Japan will never be able to break away from the US dominant because it was the US rebuild Japan after WW2, US inject life into Japan economy and helped them to transform their nation into a economy powerhouse only 2nd behind the US till the late 90's. Japan as of now still can't depend on Russia military alliance to provide security from external military threat coming the US. Japan on their own can't defend themselves from China attack without US military intervention. Japan is unwilling alliance to the US but no other choice to subordinate themselves to the US military power for their own security. US will never allow Japan to transform their military to challenge US power and influence in Asia. Abe ambition to revive Japan to the former imperial power in Asia but forgot US troop station in Japan which guarantor the power projection of the US power into Japan government decision making. Japan can't be a lead dog in Asia when themselves subjugate to foreign power. Abe ambition to form United Asia can't be without US lead and formation of the policy within the group. Abe in essence tried to project Japan as the leading role to propose the Asian United front to hedge against China but actually Abe carried out the order from the US pivot to Asia.

@sincity ,

I will reiterate , again, that Japan and the United States are strategic partners, and time honored allies. The United States' military defense of Japan as explicitly stated in our Mutual Defense Treaty -- that both Japan and the United States will come to the aid of each other in case of military attack and provocation. Our collective effort together in the Cold War enabled us to take care of any Soviet exigencies. This framework remains to this day. There is no plans within Japan that are inkling to any hegemonic designs, this is why your assumption of a Japanese-American military clash is not only unrealistic, but completely farther from the truth. The alliance system between Japan and the United States is so deeply rooted and intertwined that it is part of the bedrock of the Japanese Self Defense Force' national defense plans.

Now to address the US Pivot. We all know that the United States has decreased their defense spending these past 2 year, and the reason why the United States is "pivoting" 60% of its military (naval, air) assets to Asian and the Pacific is to offset the logistical limitations in having a reduction in military spending. This year, it was made known that the United States Navy would de-activate some 20 cruisers (Ticonderoga Class) to limit military spending. Thus, it is important that US DDG forces need to reorient towards the Pacific since the cruisers whose primary responsibility in patrolling Asia-Pacific -- will be deactivated.

Due to this reality, the JSDF, particularly the JMSDF branch has to take up a more proactive role in Asia-Pacific. This alliance system is valued by both partners, and we intend to take up our share in the times that the United States needs our help. This is why we are seeing the normalization of JSDF duties and responsibilities.

In fact, I cannot wait till the day that we completely normalize. JSDF will eventually be replaced by the IJAF -- Imperial Japanese Armed Forces, composed of the 3 branches: a) Imperial Japanese Army, b) Imperial Japanese Navy, c) Imperial Japanese Air Force.

It should be noted that goals and objectives for the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces will be to maintain peace , stability and freedom of navigation for Asia-Pacific and the World. It will remain a platform for peace.

 

[mike2000]

What's with your zero-sum mentality ? No one in Japan , let alone JSDF personnel thinks like that. Japanese see China as a partner, sure there are some political and territorial issues, but that can be ironed out. You understand that the bilateral trade between Japan and China exceeds $300 Billion, right? No one wants war, least of all Japan, United States or China. And your 'cultural' reasoning in your prior post is ludicrous, dude.

I expect better from you, dear. Come back to reality, i have my arms wide open for you.

Exatcly, you are perfectly right Nihonji. Despite all the bad talk/skirmishes and bad motuhing, China and Japan still trade with each other more than any nation in Asia. In fact looking at China-Japan trade, and China-india trade(i.2 billion people, who share a large border) its indeed surprising/almost to the point of being laughable that China trades almost 5 times more with Japan(which they view much more negatively than India who they dont really have a negative view about). This shows that business is business, and it should serve as a wake up call to other countries in Asia(especially South Asia) who tend to be over emotional to the point of restricting/hidering all trade with their neighbours/rival.

So those fan boys here who keep dreaming of a war between China and Japan or the U.S will have to wait for a longggggg time.lool There isnt going ot be any war between any of these countries, just like there wont be any war between Russia and the U.S. First of all, there's just too much for every one to losse than gain. And China and U.S are both nuclear powers as well, hence MAD even if just 2 strikes hits a country it will be enough to cause irreparable damage. So why will we engage in any useless war because of some small islands or whatever. In fact as i said before, China has even less incentive for a war for now/any time soon, since they still benefit enourmously from the present status quo and are growing/adding more to their GDP every year relative to other countries. so why start a war which will stop/lower this growth? It makes no sense.

So we should all chill, politicians might be playing nationialistic cards, but they arent stupid. So china and Japan will keep on tradingnwith each other, and at the same time quarelling with each other over the islands, war crimes, and other issues for a long time, Until China is powerful enough in all fields than the U.S , then maybe things might change and Japan might have to reconsider its relationsip/troop presence of the U.S until then you can all keep dreaming of Japan kicking out the U.S .

@sincity ,

I will reiterate , again, that Japan and the United States are strategic partners, and time honored allies. The United States' military defense of Japan as explicitly stated in our Mutual Defense Treaty -- that both Japan and the United States will come to the aid of each other in case of military attack and provocation. Our collective effort together in the Cold War enabled us to take care of any Soviet exigencies. This framework remains to this day. There is no plans within Japan that are inkling to any hegemonic designs, this is why your assumption of a Japanese-American military clash is not only unrealistic, but completely farther from the truth. The alliance system between Japan and the United States is so deeply rooted and intertwined that it is part of the bedrock of the Japanese Self Defense Force' national defense plans.

Now to address the US Pivot. We all know that the United States has decreased their defense spending these past 2 year, and the reason why the United States is "pivoting" 60% of its military (naval, air) assets to Asian and the Pacific is to offset the logistical limitations in having a reduction in military spending. This year, it was made known that the United States Navy would de-activate some 20 cruisers (Ticonderoga Class) to limit military spending. Thus, it is important that US DDG forces need to reorient towards the Pacific since the cruisers whose primary responsibility in patrolling Asia-Pacific -- will be deactivated.

Due to this reality, the JSDF, particularly the JMSDF branch has to take up a more proactive role in Asia-Pacific. This alliance system is valued by both partners, and we intend to take up our share in the times that the United States needs our help. This is why we are seeing the normalization of JSDF duties and responsibilities.

In fact, I cannot wait till the day that we completely normalize. JSDF will eventually be replaced by the IJAF -- Imperial Japanese Armed Forces, composed of the 3 branches: a) Imperial Japanese Army, b) Imperial Japanese Navy, c) Imperial Japanese Air Force.

It should be noted that goals and objectives for the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces will be to maintain peace , stability and freedom of navigation for Asia-Pacific and the World. It will remain a platform for peace.

I agree with all your points, But what do you mean by the bold ones i underlined?

 

[Aepsilons]

The second point. I am doubt about that, because ambitious of japanese can be reached only when japan defeats US. Japan is an ambitious country, you are not write innocent rabbits.

This is where I disagree with you because you come from the position that sees Japan and Japanese as having some kind of vendetta against the United States and American people. This is not only false, but really a failure on your part to comprehend the strategic reality between Japan and the United States. Just because Japan was defeated by the United States in the last war does not mean we want vengeance for our defeat, we are perfectly fine with the outcomes of the war. I guess it is different for you because since you are Chinese -- you and many nationalists Chinese see China's defeat to Japan in the 1st Sino Japanese War, as well as the destruction we had committed on China in the 2nd Japanese War -- there is a sense of a need for a "rematch" between China and Japan. This sense to prove oneself. We Japanese don't have this mentality.

The third point, I think no body will believe that. K2 from Korea, I will believe them, they are purely on a defensive nature. Type 10? It is designed for airlifting. If Japan has no offencive tendency, type 10 should be heavier. Soryu submarine has a very large operating range, that is offencive. The max depth of Soryu is also not for the near sea of Japan, also not for the near sea of China. Not talking about the carriers built in Japan, obviously they are not for the 1000 km region. In this region they are almost useless. The question is where do you want to apply them? Who far away is your defence line? 2000,4000 km? So, i donot believe it, not against you, but your government. What are japs planning for？ I think the worries of @sincity is meaningful. The target of Japan is USA.

Korea has nothing to fear, we have no designs to war with Korea or subjugate her as we did in the last century. We live in more peaceful, modern times. And I know very well of the Korean sensitivities against Japan. Korea was a colony of Japan for 50 years, so it is only natural they will have some reservations.

re interpret the 9th constitution is a very bad starting. I mean, what for a collective self defense? All your protential allies are allies of USA. When japan wants to apply collective self defense and USA does not, that will break the alliance between japan and USA. After the re interpretion, there are two HQs in japan USA alliance,whether this situation forms a competition between 2 HQs in the future is a very interesting thing. At the same time Abe announced that the japan is not a part under command of USA, which breaks the balance in last 70 years. I was astonished that USA support japan's decision. Yes, it is a way to tie down China, but the cost is very high. I think the americans will find this fact sooner or later. Obama government is always so stupid.

Lastly, there is no hostility between Japan and the United States. There is no feeling of angst or need to revenge ourselves against the Americans. This is not reality.

I agree with all your points, But what do you mean by the bold ones i underlined?

Ha ha ha ha! No worries, good ol' chap. Its just a reflection of the sentiments of military personnel. We just want to normalize our responsibilities and also to rename the Armed Force to the -- Imperial Japanese Armed Forces.

Just like our British friends, they have -- Her Royal Majesty's Armed Forces: Royal Navy, Royal Army, Royal Air Force.

 

[Europa]

What's with your zero-sum mentality ? No one in Japan , let alone JSDF personnel thinks like that. Japanese see China as a partner, sure there are some political and territorial issues, but that can be ironed out.

is that why japan supports east turkistan? do you think other posters are idiots and you are the only smart guy here?

You understand that the bilateral trade between Japan and China exceeds $300 Billion, right? No one wants war, least of all Japan, United States or China. And your 'cultural' reasoning in your prior post is ludicrous, dude.
I expect better from you, dear. Come back to reality, i have my arms wide open for you.

yes, no one wants war. we all love peace. it would better if someone exploits the geological vulnerability of japanese islands destabilizing the tectonic plates, japan is sitting on. things can be done without war in this case.

MEDC earthquake

 

[mike2000]

This is where I disagree with you because you come from the position that sees Japan and Japanese as having some kind of vendetta against the United States and American people. This is not only false, but really a failure on your part to comprehend the strategic reality between Japan and the United States. Just because Japan was defeated by the United States in the last war does not mean we want vengeance for our defeat, we are perfectly fine with the outcomes of the war. I guess it is different for you because since you are Chinese -- you and many nationalists Chinese see China's defeat to Japan in the 1st Sino Japanese War, as well as the destruction we had committed on China in the 2nd Japanese War -- there is a sense of a need for a "rematch" between China and Japan. This sense to prove oneself. We Japanese don't have this mentality.




Korea has nothing to fear, we have no designs to war with Korea or subjugate her as we did in the last century. We live in more peaceful, modern times. And I know very well of the Korean sensitivities against Japan. Korea was a colony of Japan for 50 years, so it is only natural they will have some reservations.




Lastly, there is no hostility between Japan and the United States. There is no feeling of angst or need to revenge ourselves against the Americans. This is not reality.



Ha ha ha ha! No worries, good ol' chap. Its just a reflection of the sentiments of military personnel. We just want to normalize our responsibilities and also to rename the Armed Force to the -- Imperial Japanese Armed Forces.

Just like our British friends, they have -- Her Royal Majesty's Armed Forces: Royal Navy, Royal Army, Royal Air Force.

loool Imperial Japanese Armed forces? I think that will be a step too far. You should know Japan is in a different region/situation in Asia, and still hasnt completely solved its world war II disputes with its neighbours. So taking such an Imperial step will be viewed with contemp/suspicious with your neighbours even the most pro Japanese country in the region who were once invaded by Japan. So it hink Japan should be careful. IMO. dont push the botton too far too fast. you might crash.

 

[Aepsilons]

is that why japan supports east turkistan? do you think other posters are idiots and you are the only smart guy here?

Japan's official does not support any East Turkestan movement. We do not touch China's internal affairs. This would abrogate our 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship that emphasizes both Japan and China (PRC) to not interfere with each other's internal affairs.

loool Imperial Japanese Armed forces? I think that will be a step too far. You should know Japan is in a different region/situation in Asia, and still hasnt completely solved its world war II disputes with its neighbours. So taking such an Imperial step will be viewed with contemp/suspicious with your neighbours even the most pro Japanese country in the region who were once invaded by Japan. So it hink Japan should be careful. IMO. dont push the botton too far too fast. you might crash.

It is only symbolical, buddy. Nothing to take too seriously.

 

[Europa]

Japan's official does not support any East Turkestan movement. We do not touch China's internal affairs. This would abrogate our 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship that emphasizes both Japan and China (PRC) to not interfere with each other's internal affairs.

then please explain post #33

 

[kolinsky]

Korea has nothing to fear, we have no designs to war with Korea or subjugate her as we did in the last century.

Come on! Your government has planned to attack north korea before. However, that is over the JSDF ability.

there is a sense of a need for a "rematch" between China and Japan

There is nothing to rematch. Come on, we are the defender in first two wars! We never invaded the japan soil. That two wars even not be mensioned in our text books. For us that is not a break out events.

IJAF -- Imperial Japanese Armed Forces, composed of the 3 branches: a) Imperial Japanese Army, b) Imperial Japanese Navy, c) Imperial Japanese Air Force.

You mentioned the glory of imperial navy some where I have read. That is very dangerous thought. It is the basis of fascism. Last time you japs said these words you bombed Pearl Harbor, again? Imperial japanese Navy? Come on, you gays really like the time in ww2 right? People read the history, research the history and summerize! Don't try to fool the world. At least find a better name, be creative!

 

[mike2000]

Japanese Navy with Turkestan flag.

ahahahahahah....that's weird. last think i had in mind.
On a serious note, im against these terrorists so called east turkestan or whatever they call themselves. These muslim fanatics should keep their suicide bombings/extremism/beheadings/stabbings etc in the middle east. they should leave civilised east Asian countries alone develop themselves. Even in U.K these scums have indoctrinated muslim youths here, who have been travelling in droves to the middle east to fight their Jihad aginst 'infidels' despite all the human rights/freedom we have giving them here.. im in favor of getting rid of these scums without pity.Religion can be the opium of the masses if not well handled indeed.

 

[tonyget]

Japanese right wings hate the US even more than China, they hate the fact that Japan is being controlled by the US

 

[Aepsilons]

Come on! Your government has planned to attack north korea before. However, that is over the JSDF ability.

Attack North Korea? Plans? Now I know you really have problems with understanding Japanese strategy.

There is nothing to rematch. Come on, we are the defender in first two wars! We never invaded the japan soil. That two wars even not be mensioned in our text books. For us that is not a break out events.

Many Chinese nationalists want a war with Japan to "settle" old issues. But luckily they remain a minority case.

 

[tonyget]

ahahahahahah....tahts the weird. last think i had in mind.
On a serious note, im against these terrorists so called east turkestan or whatever they call themselves. These muslim fanatics should keep their suicide bombings/extremism/beheadings/stabbings etc in the middle east. they should leave civilised east Asian countries alone develop themselves. Even in U.K these scums have indoctrinated muslim youths here, who have been travelling in droves to the middle east to fight their Jihad aginst 'infidels' despite all the human rights/freedom we have giving them here.. im in favor of getting rid of these scums without pity.Religion can be the opium of the masses if not well handled indeed.

 

[Aepsilons]

Japanese right wings hate the US even more than China, they hate the fact that Japan is being controlled by the US

LOL. If you're referring to Uyoku Dantai, then yes that is right. But the Uyoku Dantai are minority case in Japan they represent less than 5% of Japanese voters.

I mean, come on, these nutjobs believe in outdated concepts such as Japanese being the master race of Asia etc etc.

Average Japanese don't believe in that or even subscribe to that kind of drivel.