Janes: India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone

[Gibbs]

Great loss for India. Great Win for US.

Very apparent that India succumbed to the US pressure.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...sia-defence-purchase/articleshow/63827532.cms

US admiral warns against sanctioning India over Russia defence purchase

 

[GodToons]

US wanted India to officially withdraw from FGFA deal with Russia before US could share information about F-35.

Modi succumbed to US pressure and scrapped the FGFA deal with Russia.

Proof???

 

[GodToons]

US raised the concern and Modi obliged by cancelling the FGFA deal with Russia.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Capability jump: IAF looks to buy fifth-generation F-35 fighter

IAF to request for classified briefing from Lockheed Martin

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 15th Feb 18

In what would be a huge capability jump, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is increasingly interested in procuring the American F-35 Lightning II for its depleting fighter fleet.

Business Standard learns the IAF top brass is formally requesting for a classified briefing by the F-35’s prime builder, Lockheed Martin, on the capabilities of the sophisticated, fifth-generation fighter developed under the US Joint Strike Fighter programme.

The US government has not formally offered the F-35 to India. A classified briefing would require formal clearance from the US Department of Defence (the Pentagon) and the State Department. The grant of such a clearance would be an important first step towards permitting the sale of F-35s to India.

It is learnt the IAF wants to procure 126 of the variant called F-35A – the air force version of the fighter that incorporates “conventional take-off and landing”, or CTOL. Another variant, the F-35B, incorporating “short take-off and vertical landing”, or (STOVL), has been developed for the US Marine Corps. A third version, developed for the US Navy, incorporates “catapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR).

The Indian Navy, which has never ruled out operating the F-35 off Indian aircraft carriers, has received a briefing on the F-35 as far back as 2010, Lockheed Martin official Orville Prins told this correspondent. However, at that stage, the F-35 was still grappling with serious development challenges.

The F-35’s affordability is also attractive for New Delhi. In contrast to the bare-bones price of $115 million for each Rafale fighter (with India-specific enhancements, spares, logistics and weapons all extra), the F-35A cost customers $94.6 million last February. Lockheed Martin says it will reduce the cost to $80 million by 2020.

A fifth-generation fighter is characterised by a “stealth design”, making it far more difficult for radar to detect; “supercruise”, or the ability to fly at supersonic speeds without engaging engine afterburners; and highly networked avionics that detect and engage enemy aircraft using a range of sensors and weapons across the battle-space.

The only true fifth-generation fighters in service are the US Air Force’s F-22 Raptor and the F-35 Lightning II. China is developing two stealth fighters – the J-20 Chengdu and the J-31 Shenyang. Russia is developing its own fifth-generation fighter, the PAK-FA, and has offered India a partnership role in developing the PAK-FA into the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) for the IAF. Negotiations on roles and costing are over, but the Indian defence ministry is yet to accept.

The United Progressive Alliance (UPA) defence minister, AK Antony, had ruled out buying the F-35, stating that India would meet its short-term requirement of fifth-generation fighters with the FGFA. For the IAF’s long-term needs, the Defence R&D Organisation is developing the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Sources close to the Pentagon say India would not be sold the F-35 as long as it is partnering Russia in the FGFA co-development project. That is because Washington would guard against the leakage of F-35 technology into the FGFA.

Senior officers say the IAF is not enthused about the FGFA project. They point out the F-35 is further advanced in development and has already entered service with the USAF and six-seven air forces of American allies.

For Lockheed Martin, an Indian request for the F-35 would create a dilemma. The US company would rather have the IAF buy the F-16 Block 70, which it has offered to build in India in partnership with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL).

For Lockheed Martin, that would keep alive the F-16 assembly line, which has long functioned from Fort Worth, Texas, and has now moved temporarily to Greenville, South Carolina, where it is building a $2.8 billion order from Bahrain for 19 F-16V fighters.

The Fort Worth facility has been made over to building the F-35, of which over 3,000 are already on order.

Meanwhile, the assembly line in India would build new F-16s for the IAF, as well as for orders that Lockheed Martin expects from southeast Asian and central European countries. It would also provide overhaul and upgrade facilities for the estimated 3,000 F-16 fighters in service worldwide, in some 25 air forces.

As this newspaper reported (December 16, “Lockheed Martin says F-16 orders flowing in”) Lockheed Martin calculates that an Indian line would benefit, in the medium term, from new fighter orders worth $16 billion, and $6.5 billion in upgrading old F-16s.

Simultaneously, American jobs would get a lease of life, as F-16 suppliers in the US would continue feeding into the integration line in India. At least 50 per cent of the F-16 by value would continue to be made in America.

For all these reasons, Lockheed Martin is painting the F-16 Block 70 sale to the IAF as a stepping stone to eventually obtaining the F-35.

While the US has supplied the F-35 only to close allies, Washington insiders say India’s recent designation as a Major Defence Partner (MDP), and a groundswell of goodwill towards New Delhi, make conditions propitious for an Indian request. An indicator is the recent permission granted for the sale to India of the Sea Guardian unmanned aerial vehicle – so far sold only to close allies.

In 2011, the influential US Senate Armed Services Committee requested the Pentagon to study the feasibility of an F-35 sale to India. Senators John Cornyn (co-chair of the Senate India Caucus) and Joseph Lieberman spearheaded the proposal.

But US officials in Washington also complain about fatigue at New Delhi’s tardiness in following up discussions with formal requests. The mood in the Pentagon, say these officials, is: “Let New Delhi ask for the F-35. Then we’ll take things forward.”

The defence ministry and the IAF have not responded to an emailed request for comments.



Again you are clueless and nothing to back it up with.

Ajai Shukla
This run away army brat is part of many hit-jobs presented in media as source based report or classified information. He is one who plants negative Tejas stories, How bad Rafael is as well as why India should do business with Russia and Russia only.

Best described as biased as well as seller of pen. Ignore this guy

 

[Mav3rick]

Apart from acquiring more Rafales, the only way to fastrack the development of 5th gen AMCA is to rope in private defense firms and the assistance of France along with the involvement of research universities.

IAF may look towards F-35 but we would be last in line even if it's approved and would receive our lot when US moves to 6th gen and I'm sure they would pressurize us to purchase F-16/18 in large numbers to approve the sale of F-35

In addition to the above, such high tech weapons system will come with strings attached. As far I understand India, she does not like strings attached to any transaction and hence will not be too inclined to opt for F-35 unless it comes strings free and with ToT. Anyway, this will be the mother of all deals......if it happens.

 

[HariPrasad]

India do not want to co develop the plane . India told russia that you go ahead. We will buy it outright if think it ok to buy. We do not want to commit anytihing.

 

[PurpleStone]

Proof???

check post #61 and #63

Ajai Shukla
This run away army brat is part of many hit-jobs presented in media as source based report or classified information. He is one who plants negative Tejas stories, How bad Rafael is as well as why India should do business with Russia and Russia only.

Best described as biased as well as seller of pen. Ignore this guy

The fact is 2 months after he reported , his report was vindicated with Modi cancelling the FGFA deal.

 

[GodToons]

check post #61 and #63



The fact is 2 months after he reported , his report was vindicated with Modi cancelling the FGFA deal.

Cancellation of deal is 1 aspect, concatenation of story based on sources is another. I have trust deficit on this journalist.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

India and US has significantly come closer to each other the day Bush signed a nuclear deal with Indian counterpart and it is matter of time, India will signed a deal of F-35s from US.

 

[Dash]

India can purchase the F-22/F-35 fusion that Lockheed is currently pitching to Japan. I think it'll fulfill many of FGFA's requirements.

Do you have the specs for that plane? I havent heard a thing like F-22/35 fusion!

 

[PurpleStone]

India and US has significantly come closer to each other the day Bush signed a nuclear deal with Indian counterpart and it is matter of time, India will signed a deal of F-35s from US.

Actually it is not US & India getting closer but the rise of China and Russian support to China & Pakistan at the expense of its traditional support to India has rendered India with no option but to acquiesce to any and all demands by the US on India.

US had two conditions for selling F-35 to India

1) Cancel FGFA deal with Russia - completed

2) Buy F-16s now to get F-35 post 2030 - to be done as part of the MMRCA redux

US has also demanded India to sign the foundational agreements, CTBT and NPT as non-nuclear power.

India has already signed the LSA on the dotted line as demanded and in the process of signing the remaining shortly.

Modi has destroyed the independent foreign policy of India and fast turning India into a satellite state of the US.

 

[Storm Force]

Actually it is not US & India getting closer but the rise of China and Russian support to China & Pakistan at the expense of its traditional support to India has rendered India with no option but to acquiesce to any and all demands by the US on India.

US had two conditions for selling F-35 to India

1) Cancel FGFA deal with Russia - completed

2) Buy F-16s now to get F-35 post 2030 - to be done as part of the MMRCA redux

US has also demanded India to sign the foundational agreements, CTBT and NPT as non-nuclear power.

India has already signed the LSA on the dotted line as demanded and in the process of signing the remaining shortly.

Modi has destroyed the independent foreign policy of India and fast turning India into a satellite state of the US.

YEP 100% CORRECT

SATA;LITE state the has a powerful successful economy , democracy , conventional military power

just like

Japan
S Korea
Israel
Turkey
Saudi
UK
Canada
Austrlia

etc etc etc

I don't see any loser backward states in this list

DO YOU

 

[siegecrossbow]

Do you have the specs for that plane? I havent heard a thing like F-22/35 fusion!

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a19871450/japan-lockheed-martin-f-22-f-35-hybrid/

It's still in the early planning phase so no known specs are available yet.

 

[PurpleStone]

YEP 100% CORRECT

SATA;LITE state the has a powerful successful economy , democracy , conventional military power

just like

Japan
S Korea
Israel
Turkey
Saudi
UK
Canada
Austrlia

etc etc etc

I don't see any loser backward states in this list

DO YOU

Can Japan take on China on its own?

Can SK take on NK on its own?

Can Saudi Arabia take on Iran on its own?

Can Germany take on Russia on its own?

A country that is willing to trade its freedom in the hope of gaining security would end up with neither.

That is the cold hard truth..

 

[Dash]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a19871450/japan-lockheed-martin-f-22-f-35-hybrid/

It's still in the early planning phase so no known specs are available yet.

This will create more huddles than results. I dont even think if they can have a F-35 in a F-22 skeleton (thats best assumption at the moment). For India it might be very difficult for couple of reasons.

1. Engine is supposed to be Indian (yes, you heard me right)
2. Giving FADEC to this Indian engine with software changes will be another REALLY big task.
3. India will not allow or so it seems at the moment(no CISMOA) to fully integrate FCR into this fighter.

For us, in a nutshell it will not work out. Impractical at best.

 

[帅的一匹]

India do not want to co develop the plane . India told russia that you go ahead. We will buy it outright if think it ok to buy. We do not want to commit anytihing.

You don't want Su57, I get it.

Actually it is not US & India getting closer but the rise of China and Russian support to China & Pakistan at the expense of its traditional support to India has rendered India with no option but to acquiesce to any and all demands by the US on India.

US had two conditions for selling F-35 to India

1) Cancel FGFA deal with Russia - completed

2) Buy F-16s now to get F-35 post 2030 - to be done as part of the MMRCA redux

US has also demanded India to sign the foundational agreements, CTBT and NPT as non-nuclear power.

India has already signed the LSA on the dotted line as demanded and in the process of signing the remaining shortly.

Modi has destroyed the independent foreign policy of India and fast turning India into a satellite state of the US.

No no no! Don't blame it on others. Because you have other choices from USA right now.

Actually it is not US & India getting closer but the rise of China and Russian support to China & Pakistan at the expense of its traditional support to India has rendered India with no option but to acquiesce to any and all demands by the US on India.

US had two conditions for selling F-35 to India

1) Cancel FGFA deal with Russia - completed

2) Buy F-16s now to get F-35 post 2030 - to be done as part of the MMRCA redux

US has also demanded India to sign the foundational agreements, CTBT and NPT as non-nuclear power.

India has already signed the LSA on the dotted line as demanded and in the process of signing the remaining shortly.

Modi has destroyed the independent foreign policy of India and fast turning India into a satellite state of the US.

As I said before, those BJP rednecks are rookies.

It's very dangerous for India if you drive China/Pakistan/Russia together.

If I were an Indian, I wouldn't have wanted Su57 as well. A completely failed design.

10 billions for that is no more than suicide.

Go for F35, or the game is not funny more.