jamahir Musings - Actual Democracy

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Actually not. What Pakistan ( and rest of South Asia ) should be doing is establish actual democracy, not this multi-party confusion and the show-sha of five-yearly-elections.

Actual democracy would be party-less direct democracy guided by socialism. Where people at neighborhood-level will be really able to have their say in the affairs of the country.

you need a population less than 100 million for that to be workable...One point fugging three billion in India alone...

 

[MilSpec]

How do Ambani and Subrata Roy reconcile with the fact that the millions they spent on unnecessary whims could have cured blindness and cancer in thousands or more Indians, given that in a society like India the healthcare system is money-based ? Please read this Ketto ad.

Very similar to you gaddafi and his femme fatale body guards.... what they do with their money is thier own business. No one stopped you from becoming rich...

1. Why can't you hire a yacht for two days ? Why can't you hire a taxi for a romantic long drive with your beloved and the taxi being driven by a woman driver for your psychological comfort ?

nope, I am free to own what I wish to. No government should be able to dictate my options with my money.

2. Again, I am not talking about a traditional, big brother government ( like in India, Pakistan, USA ) but about people governing themselves ( direct democracy - Libya, Venezuela. Even Switzerland to an extent ) and which was the "Withering away of the State" desire part of Communism ? Even Elon Musk too desires direct democracy for near-future Mars settlements.

1. FARC is a revolutionary movement which desires a progressive system in Columbia. Libya also supported Mandela's ANC. Quite unlike America-supported FSA in Syria or Sanatan Sanstha in India.

2. Don't India, USA, France have nuclear weapons ? Let us call for global disarmament. At least start to minimizing nuclear weapons in South Asia.
[/QUOTE]
Why Am I not surprised.

World Report 2021: Rights Trends in Colombia

The peace accord in 2016 between the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and the government ended a 52-year armed conflict and brought an initial decline in violence. But conflict-related violence has since taken new forms, and serious abuses continue. Violence associated with the...

www.hrw.org

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[LeGenD]

This conversation is separated from the inspirational thread.

 

[jamahir]

This conversation is separated from the inspirational thread.

Thank you for creating a separate thread and not deleting the posts outright.

 

[Drizzt]

Inspired by following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-develops-electronic-voting-machine.702447/



Actually not. What Pakistan ( and rest of South Asia ) should be doing is establish actual democracy, not this multi-party confusion and the show-sha of five-yearly-elections.

Actual democracy would be party-less direct democracy guided by socialism. Where people at neighborhood-level will be really able to have their say in the affairs of the country.

Why not a block-chain based Mobile App in every socialist phone, App will have its own media, social network, crypto currency, encrypted communication, payment of taxes, app will coordinate its users using swarm tactics to mass boycott of corporate, coordinate voting patterns to punish and eradicate corporate business houses, educate people to choose pro-socialist products, journalist contacts, lawyer teams, etc. Basically it will bring all socialist and communists on one platform. And the platform will have a block chain based backup with tor network routing, if a government takes down a server, block based services will still be available.

An App can make the socialist movement span borders and cultures. Strength of a socialist movement is numbers, and this strength of numbers, can be leveraged on a global scale. This strength in numbers can be translated into mass voting decisions and collective buying decisions. Just these two are enough to smash capitalism.

Capitalism thrives due to inequality of intellect, few smarter persons always exploits less smarter masses. This is law of nature, Socialism and communism is a check for this. Key is connect a person with average IQ with a Socialist intellectual, who is his well-wisher, who will help him make voting and buying decisions. Capitalist always rip off average people and not their well wisher, so people will realize whom to listen to. Main reason for success of capitalism is an average person is bombarded with information, and in confusion he gets manipulated by shrewd capitalist who has more media coverage.

 

[jamahir]

Why not a block-chain based Mobile App in every socialist phone, App will have its own media, social network, crypto currency, encrypted communication, payment of taxes, app will coordinate its users using swarm tactics to mass boycott of corporate, coordinate voting patterns to punish and eradicate corporate business houses, educate people to choose pro-socialist products, journalist contacts, lawyer teams, etc. Basically it will bring all socialist and communists on one platform. And the platform will have a block chain based backup with tor network routing, if a government takes down a server, block based services will still be available.

An App can make the socialist movement span borders and cultures. Strength of a socialist movement is numbers, and this strength of numbers, can be leveraged on a global scale. This strength in numbers can be translated into mass voting decisions and collective buying decisions. Just these two are enough to smash capitalism.

Capitalism thrives due to inequality of intellect, few smarter persons always exploits less smarter masses. This is law of nature, Socialism and communism is a check for this. Key is connect a person with average IQ with a Socialist intellectual, who is his well-wisher, who will help him make voting and buying decisions. Capitalist always rip off average people and not their well wisher, so people will realize whom to listen to. Main reason for success of capitalism is an average person is bombarded with information, and in confusion he gets manipulated by shrewd capitalist who has more media coverage.

You made a lot of nice ideas above. But I don't know anything about block chain and crypto currency. Can you explain in simple words ? Before that please read this new economic system I have proposed.

I have two computing projects : a microprocessor and an operating system. Both are open source. Socialist. And there is a wearable computer that is my next project. I will include the ideas that you describe.

 

[Drizzt]

You made a lot of nice ideas above. But I don't know anything about block chain and crypto currency. Can you explain in simple words ? Before that please read this new economic system I have proposed.

I have two computing projects : a microprocessor and an operating system. Both are open source. Socialist. And there is a wearable computer that is my next project. I will include the ideas that you describe.

How will you implement your economic system, Do you have the leadership skills or any political power ? An idea is useless until you have a practical plan to implement it.

Microprocessor and OS both waste of time. It takes lots of time and effort to design and test a microprocessor design and getting it fabricated from a Semi-Conductor fab. It is not practical, many have tried on government level and failed, https://www.iitb.ac.in/en/research-highlight/welcome-ajit-‘made-india’-microprocessor

About the OS, well, GNU Linux is already socialist in nature. No point in reinventing the wheel.

Socialism is beneficial for poor, lower middle class, middle class. People in that income bracket will not buy any experimental hardware or have time to play with OS.

Even poor people have Android phone. An Android App is what is needed, to create a network of all pro-socialist/communist around the world, so likeminded can share their ideas. Basically a Facebook for Communists. Time and investment required to make such is APP is less.

 

[jamahir]

Microprocessor and OS both waste of time. It takes lots of time and effort to design and test a microprocessor design and getting it fabricated from a Semi-Conductor fab. It is not practical, many have tried on government level and failed, https://www.iitb.ac.in/en/research-highlight/welcome-ajit-‘made-india’-microprocessor

About the OS, well, GNU Linux is already socialist in nature. No point in reinventing the wheel.

AJIT processor is essentially IIT-Bombay's implementation of the American SPARC processor architecture. CDAC and IIT-Madras have implemented the international RISC-V processor architecture and called their implementations as Vega and Shakti, respectively. Nothing indigenous about these three. But mine is. About fabrication, let me first come to the FPGA prototype part.

About OS, why do other OS' like QNX and MacOS exist if Linux is all-pervading ? Linux has a customer base and others like QNX have theirs. My plan is to enter into the second one.

Let's see how these go.

 

[Baibars_1260]

1. Not the traditional, separate, elitist, classist government system seen in most societies but a "governance system composed of the people themselves". Please read post# 20 as to how.

2. "His own wealth". As I wrote later, a rich man does not get his wealth in isolation from society. His wealth does not appear magically hence he should have kept his wealth in harmony with the rest of society. The two people I quoted as examples were being grotesque and disharmonious in comparison to the rest of society. Even Ratan Tata spoke of this in context of Ambani's "house".

3. In this proposal that I make of a new, evolved economic system it allows a citizen to purchase goods of luxury even, but does not allow for a citizen to hoard money thereby preventing a citizen from becoming "rich". The various committees and congresses that will form the people's governance structure will not mostly interfere in what type of goods and services a citizen can acquire.



He and his family lived in a building in a military compound called Bab al Azizia. I don't think that building was as vast as the American presidential palace and Buckingham Palace.



Those monies belonged to the country and not his family. There was a project underway to create a single bank for Africa, a single military for Africa and even a proposal for the United States of Africa. These all had large investments by Libya.

Plus continuation of the Great Manmade River project which were pipelines of waters from Libyan desert aquifers delivering water to Libyan cities and other habitations.

Plus financial support for progressive movements in the world like FARC of Columbia.

I suppose other things too that I don't recall now.

@Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8
This might be of interest to you.

WHO WAS MAJOR ISHAQ?

Today is the 100th birth anniversary of Major Ishaq Muhammad, who fought for the British in Burma and for Pakistan in Kashmir...

www.dawn.com

Who was Major Ishaq?

Is andhiyari, dukhi raat mein
Kahaan chalay Mehar!
Ab nahin saath nibhaoge kya
Itna dukh de jaoge kya
[In this sad night of darkness
For where did you put on your harness
Will you now stand by no longer
Will you leave us with so much distress]
Fahmida Riaz, Nauha — Major Ishaq ke Intiqal Par [Dirge — On the Death of Major Ishaq]

Major Ishaq Muhammad was born on April 4, 1921, a hundred years ago today, in a village, Akhara, located 16-17 miles from Jalandhar. As I write this piece remembering the revolutionary founder of the Mazdoor Kisan Party, the ongoing farmers’ protests in neighbouring India have entered their seventh month. And various peasant organisations in Pakistan are planning a ‘tractor march’ to the federal and Punjab capitals if their demands for the support price of wheat, reduced power tariffs for tube-wells and fertiliser rates are not accepted. Later this month, April 17 will also mark the International Day of Peasant Struggle.

Many consider Major Ishaq — himself the son of a Punjabi peasant — an integral part of the history of the peasant struggle in this region. A history that, as is sadly proven by a quick Google search, remains underexplored.

EARLY EDUCATION

Major Ishaq’s father, Noor Muhammad, was altogether illiterate, meaning a simple peasant. But Major Ishaq studied till his BA before joining the British army. He received a scholarship from fourth grade till BA, and got his education by walking on foot or riding a broken bicycle to school, while staying in the homes of relatives. Without the scholarship, his family could not have afforded his education.

He attended MAO College Amritsar and wore a turban and shalwar qameez to college. Dr Taseer, father of former governor Punjab Salman Taseer, was the college’s principal and Faiz Ahmad Faiz was a professor of English there. Faiz, on the one hand, was Major Ishaq’s teacher; on the other, both of them studied Marxism from comrade Fazal Ilahi Qurban, who was underground at that time.

Major Ishaq received a very good milieu at MAO College Amritsar — teachers such as Taseer and Faiz, and classmates such as future poet, journalist and filmmaker Zaheer Kashmiri. He also wrote literary articles at that time, which were published in magazines. In 1940, he wrote an article on unity of Sikhs and Muslims, which was published in the daily Ehsan of Lahore. This was perhaps the first article on this topic.

Today is the 100th birth anniversary of Major Ishaq Muhammad, who fought for the British in Burma and for Pakistan in Kashmir, who became entangled in the infamous Rawalpindi Conspiracy Case and went to jail multiple times, who investigated the killing of leftist leader Hassan Nasir, who wrote dramas and became a celebrated peasant leader in his own right. Eos remembers his life and times…

AFTER COLLEGE

After completing his BA, Ishaq Muhammad was recruited as Second-Lieutenant in the army and, from the Officers Training School, he was sent to the Burma front with the 16th Punjab Regiment. Dr Taseer and Faiz too went into the army and Zaheer Kashmiri was left behind.

In 1944, Ishaq Muhammad became a Major in Burma and, on the same front, attained the Military Cross (the second highest military medal of the British army). He also lived in Calcutta for six months as the aide-de-camp (ADC) of the commander-in-chief. From there he was sent to Malaya to fight against the Japanese.

On August 6, 1945, the US bombed Japanese cities with atomic bombs and the war ended. Ishaq Muhammad was then sent to the North West Frontier Province upon his return from Malaya. When Pakistan was created, he was in Kohat.

In 1948, he was sent to the Kashmir front. Major-General Akbar was the brigade commander in the Kashmir war and Major Ishaq was the brigade-major. In 1950, Ishaq stayed in the state of Kalat.

‘CONSPIRACY’, CAPTIVITY AND POLITICS

In 1951, along with several other army officers, he was arrested in the Rawalpindi Conspiracy Case. The allegation was that he had wanted to overthrow the government. He remained in jail for four years. He spent the jail period in Hyderabad, Lahore and Montgomery (Sahiwal).

In 1955, Ishaq entered the Law College Lahore, and with it politics as well, initially joining the Awami League which was led by Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy. When the Suez Canal was attacked, he created the National Awami Party (NAP) along with Maulana Bhashani and other leaders who disagreed with Suhrawardy’s policy.

Ishaq started practising law in 1957, but was re-arrested soon after, when martial law was imposed in 1958. This time the charge was that he was a communist. During this six-month captivity, he also stayed in the torture chambers of the Lahore Fort.

In 1960, once again, imprisonment became his lot. This time too, he was sent to the Lahore Fort. The proscribed Communist Party leader Hassan Nasir was also in the Fort at the time. After his release, Major Ishaq fought a case against the government regarding the death in custody of Hassan Nasir. Later, in 1975, he also wrote a now-classic book with reference to this case titled Hassan Nasir Ki Shahadat [The Martyrdom of Hassan Nasir], which has been recently republished.

In 1968, after a split in NAP, he founded the NAP (Mazdoor Kisan Group). In 1970, abandoning the name of NAP, he founded the Mazdoor Kisan Party (MKP).

Major Ishaq was arrested again during the Yahya Khan regime in 1971 and remained in Faisalabad jail. During this captivity, he wrote the drama Mussalli.

He was imprisoned yet again during the Zulfikar Ali Bhutto regime and then during the martial law of Gen Ziaul Haq.

FINAL IMPRISONMENT

During his final imprisonment, first he remained in Faisalabad, then the jail term was increased and he was sent to Bahawalpur Jail. It was there that he had a paralytic stroke. After a delay of 48 hours, he was admitted to Faisalabad Hospital. A fighter by nature, he fought bravely with the illness. But death had come looking.

Ishaq started practising law in 1957, but was re-arrested soon after, when martial law was imposed in 1958. This time the charge was that he was a communist. During this six-month captivity, he also stayed in the torture chambers of the Lahore Fort.

At 2.30 pm, on the afternoon of April 2, 1982, Major Ishaq breathed his last. He was buried by the side of his dear mother in Chak 644 GB Tehsil Jaranwala, District Faisalabad, on April 3, 1982. It was not far from where fellow-Punjabi revolutionary Bhagat Singh had been born, 75 years earlier.
Aanay mein taammul tha agar roz-e-jaza ko
Achha tha thehar jaatay agar tum bhi zara aur
[If Doomsday wanted to come with hesitation
It was well for you too to delay your final destination]
— Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Major Ishaq Ki Yaad Mein [In Memory of Major Ishaq]


( Read more )

 

[jamahir]

@Baibars_1260, I will ask you to post above article as a new thread. The article deserves it. Some Pakistani members also need to know the history of the progressive people of their country.

 

[Baibars_1260]

@Baibars_1260, I will ask you to post above article as a new thread. The article deserves it. Some Pakistani members also need to know the history of the progressive people of their country.

@jamahir
Please do the honors on my behalf. Post this in the "Pakistani Siyasat" forum.

If you recall I had earlier posted some information in my posts below but everyone was incredulous.

Ok this one is for @jamahir but I will try to answer your question without disclosing names.

This is common knowledge amongst Indian Marxists of the earlier generation one whom I had the privy to meet when he was in his 90s almost 12 years back .
I subsequently confirmed the situation from one of our own expat leftists also aged 90+ .
They are all dead now, but I am 100% sure that our security apparatus has maintained these records, as has our enemy.

This goes back to 1946-47 in the turmoil of Partition and given Russia's inheritance of the Soviet legacy and interests in this region the information is still sensitive,

Let's get on the Time Machine.

First of all the Partition as we see it 73 years later was not only a black and white Hindu vs Muslim, Sikh vs Muslim affair. There were numerous side currents bitterly opposed to Partition, some very public and violent such as the "Naval Ratings Mutiny " 1946, ex-INA veterans, and of course the Communist Party of India (CPI) that was loathe to split along communal lines. However the CPI bosses were also a realistic and realized that India was too far gone down the path of religious frenzy to be stabilized in the short term .
Their efforts at deflecting the communal frenzy into a popular anti-capitalist anti-feudal revolution ( Airman's Mutiny etc.) had been a miserable failure and unless the Indian Armed Forces went "Red" there was no hope of taking power by revolution.
In any case first the British and then the Congress government banned the CPI which went underground. Likewise the Communist Party of Pakistan ( CPP) also went underground with its leader Jam Saqi and others fleeing to Afghanistan and subsequently the Soviet Union.
A frequent route taken by Indian revolutionaries. Subhas Bose had fled the same way.

Stalin watched in dismay as his well disciplined CPI splintered. While Pakistan wrestling with a myriad problems most important of which was Kashmir had little time chasing its leftists across the border India wasted no time rounding these up especially after the failed Telengana armed insurrection.

The CPI members fled via the Nepal China route but with a more difficult land route heavily patrolled most of the members of the CPI were arrested including some who were youthful rebel children of the Congress party cabinet members . The Muslim component of the CPI cadre was the most uncompromising, and many refused to surrender and some were shot.
For Muslim CPI members it was far easier to cross over into Pakistan and flee to the Soviet Union which they did , but were promptly arrested by the KGB, imprisoned and interrogated until they were convinced these were genuine leftists.
Meanwhile with India and Pakistan at loggerheads with one another over Kashmir, Stalins dream of a united leftist India ruled by a subservient CPI, granting the Soviet Union its warm water port was shattered.
So Stalin concentrated on Pakistan, because after all it was now Pakistan that was on the Border of Afghanistan and it was Pakistan that controlled the Baluchistan coast.
Stalin got together a conference of sorts, calling the CPI members and CPP members, both now under asylum in the Soviet Union asking them to agree to the following:
- The CPP would reach out to left wing army officers about seizing power and the Soviets would back a take over of Kashmir.
-The CPI would accept the loss of Kashmir and not support the government.(At this time India was considering removing the ban on the CPI ).

The CPI members ( including Muslims) disagreed and said they were against the communal partitioning of the country and that went for Kashmir too. Apparently they were less interested in the Soviet geo-strategic interests.
One of the junior Indian Muslim members ( "youthful rebel") who was present at that meeting only as an observer told me that any conversations they were trying to have with their Pakistani counterparts was strictly monitored by Urdu speaking Uzbek communist KGB cadres.
In any case the CPI members refused and were packed off to detention and subsequently sent back to India.
The CPP members returned to Pakistan to try to seek support amongst left wing PA officers. The Soviets also tried to officially approach Liaquat Ali Khan.
We now know that Pakistani intelligence smashed the CPP ring and this time chased them into Afghanistan, killing most of the top leadership. I am not sure if Jam Saqui survived because he had already been arrested. In any case the CPP was history apart from some poet celebrities like Faiz, Mustafa Zaidi etc.

In India, things were different. The CPI came above ground with leaders like S. A. Dange and Rajeshwar Rao who steered the party into an alliance with the Congress. This was deliberate. After the failure of the CPP the Soviets switched tack and began dealing with the CPI funding and guiding it to a position of extreme influence over the government of India. The alliance was so strong that any agreement between the Soviet Union and India was always referred to the CPI and the Indian government was aware of that.

The Soviet Union hoped to build India up to take over Pakistan and grant it the warm water port. Pakistan was not a military pushover and the Soviets were disappointed with India in the 1965 war. The Tashkent conference was salve. Which is why the eastern wing had to be separated first.

Sometimes the full truth is never known and sometimes it is known long after :
Example: ( Link )
It is unfortunate that I cannot name the persons involved. The children of the participants of this Stalinist era intrigue (on both sides of India and Pakistan ) are very respectable and renowned families , who would much rather live in anonymous seclusion . Most are living abroad and their parents are dead.

A visit to the CPI/ CPM headquarters in India, and their library will reveal who the person's involved were. A professional investigative journalist should take this story up as an assignment, though it is unlikely that the CPI will take kindly to the revelations 73 years later after some its brightest and most adventurous cadres have passed away. These political parties would like to protect the descendants of their most intrepid and dedicated members ; especially the Muslims in this era of RSS dominated politics in India.
The legacy Aligarh University "Surkhey" crowd is now very old and decrepit, and even the second tier are moving into their eternal rest.
Our security apparatus has all the files and data, but given Pakistan's desire to keep relations with Russia on an even keel as of now, it is highly unlikely that the names of the Indian Muslim leftists who transited Pakistan into the Soviet Union will be revealed. Pakistan's concerns were with the CPP only which it dismantled very quickly.
Am not going to name persons here. The Indians can do what they want.


I confess that not every thing can be referenced and revealed here. Two persons in their 90s not afraid of the consequences are likely telling the truth especially since they are not connected. But do I have Google links to prove what they said is correct? Of course not!
Just as we will never know the full details of Pakistan's involvement in the Anti Soviet Afghan war in our lifetime, we will likely never know the murky details of what went on in those days.

The overall picture adds up, The Soviets were backing the united CPI before it split into the CPP . Briefly the Soviets had hopes from the CPP, and then gave up after Pakistani intelligence dismantled the apparatus. No one remembers Jam Saqi these days. Faiz's case is well known.,

I am sure the Soviet Embassy records have long been revealed to the powers that be.

Gin and tonic with Angastura bitters. Cheers.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

will fee capitalism in SEZ+ social welfare in rest of the state work?

What will be the most constructive ways to dissolve prejudice against Muslims while still giving adequate space to an Indic culture self-esteem movement?

Given India's human capital...do you think we have maxxed out on our Anti-corruption drive?

SOuth Asian Transparency International rankings:

24. Bhutan (Highest poor country in the world)
75. Maldives
86. India (Highest rank 80)
94. Sri Lanka
117. Nepal
124. Pakistan
146. Bangladesh
165. Afghanistan (though Afghanistan is Central Asia)

Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Musalman]

Inspired by following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-develops-electronic-voting-machine.702447/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-develops-electronic-voting-machine.702447/ EVM bothers me too since it can be hacked.

Actually not. What Pakistan ( and rest of South Asia ) should be doing is establish actual democracy, not this multi-party confusion and the show-sha of five-yearly-elections.

Actual democracy would be party-less direct democracy guided by socialism. Where people at neighborhood-level will be really able to have their say in the affairs of the country.

What i gather from your suggestion is that law making should be done at local government level.
LB should be non party basis.

If this is what you are saying then I agree with you.

But is it practical , for a country like Pakistan lets say one member against 10,000 people. That makes 23,000 assembly members. 100,000 for India.

 

[jamahir]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-develops-electronic-voting-machine.702447/ EVM bothers me too since it can be hacked.

Indeed.

What i gather from your suggestion is that law making should be done at local government level.
LB should be non party basis.

If this is what you are saying then I agree with you.

Mostly

But what is LB ?

Also, law and decision making can go both ways : Something germinated at neighborhood-level and going up to national level, and vice versa ( the system allowing for top-level law proposals to be discussed by neighborhood-level citizens ).

But is it practical , for a country like Pakistan lets say one member against 10,000 people. That makes 23,000 assembly members. 100,000 for India.

Sorry what are those numbers ?

 

[MH.Yang]

The country is a violent tool for the ruling group to rule the ruled group.
Law is the concentrated embodiment of the will of the ruling group.

Democracy means that the ruling group is the people, not Wall Street.



I know you are close to communism and socialism, but you lack their theoretical knowledge.

I recommend you read this book first:
<Introduction to Mao Zedong Thought>