Jaguar Darin II

[brahmastra]

nice video about jaguar

look at takeoff and landing 2:00

 

[Windjammer]

Slight digression but I think the leadership in Pakistan let the armed forces down at that time. Since they had not admitted to the fact of folks on our side of the LOC to be Pakistani Army, they could not provide them air cover.

As per Nawaz Sharif, some 4000 or so Pakistani forces were martyred in the conflict. I dont think there is a split given for deaths by IAF attacks vs deaths thru ground Ops

The accusation is that General Pervez Musharraff was the architect for the Kargil scenario, if that was the case, the armed forces would have been in the picture, in any case, Nawaz Sharif was into the knowledge, he was just adamant to malign the Army Chief so he could bring in the man of his choice, the 4000 figure was also his own creation to lend weight to his argument where as by all conservative estimates, the PA losses were less than 250.

 

[Windjammer]

nice video about jaguar

YouTube - Indian Air force IAF ( Jaguar Bomber )

look at takeoff and landing 2:00

Typical late 70s Jaguar promotional video showing footage of RAF and Omani aircraft.

 

[karan.1970]

The accusation is that General Pervez Musharraff was the architect for the Kargil scenario, if that was the case, the armed forces would have been in the picture, in any case, Nawaz Sharif was into the knowledge, he was just adamant to malign the Army Chief so he could bring in the man of his choice, the 4000 figure was also his own creation to lend weight to his argument where as by all conservative estimates, the PA losses were less than 250.

There were 2 figures that came out of Pakistan. Musharraf talks of a figure of 357 in his memoirs. Where are the political establishment (both PML N and PPP) give a figure of 4000+. Reality in my view would be somewhere in between...

Less than 250 is even lower than what Musharraf admitted to in his memoirs.

Another point to consider here would be that PA / Musharraf only talked about PA casualties. The number of jehadi elements who went in along with the NLI numbers may be contributing to the figure from the political establishment or the US estimate of close to a 1000 deaths...

 

[brahmastra]

Typical late 70s Jaguar promotional video showing footage of RAF and Omani aircraft.

so what?

 

[Windjammer]

There were 2 figures that came out of Pakistan. Musharraf talks of a figure of 357 in his memoirs. Where are the political establishment (both PML N and PPP) give a figure of 4000+. Reality in my view would be somewhere in between...

Less than 250 is even lower than what Musharraf admitted to in his memoirs.

Another point to consider here would be that PA / Musharraf only talked about PA casualties. The number of jehadi elements who went in along with the NLI numbers may be contributing to the figure from the political establishment or the US estimate of close to a 1000 deaths...

Sorry my bad, what i meant was 350, as this was the original figure often repeated by Nawaz Sharif himself. Ask your self if thousands had died, and that too on the Indian side, wouldn't your media be making a song and dance about it since most of the bodies wouldn't be able to be retrieved and above all can such a figure be easily absorbed and swept under the carpet.

 

[Windjammer]

so what?

Because anyone will tell you that it's like Surya Kiran can't perform like the Red Arrows.

 

[Ham-ster]

There is no doubt IAF Blew pakistani army/Jihadi/mujahideens and Thousands died and PAF did not come for the rescue as usual.

PM Nawaz, had no other option than to run to USA again, for saving pakistani lives due to one mans Madness, which had killed more than 4000 pakistanis; as this war Again slaped another shameless defeat and International condemnation without achieving any of its objevtives.

 

[karan.1970]

Sorry my bad, what i meant was 350, as this was the original figure often repeated by Nawaz Sharif himself. Ask your self if thousands had died, and that too on the Indian side, wouldn't your media be making a song and dance about it since most of the bodies wouldn't be able to be retrieved and above all can such a figure be easily absorbed and swept under the carpet.

Even I would take the figure of 4000+ with a pinch of salt specially since PA had the high ground in the war. But Mirage 2K actually did some major damage towards the turning point in the war and there were a lot of casualties during the retreat.. My guess would be a figure closer to 2000-2400 including the irregulars, which is closer to the numbers estimated by GoI and some US think tanks...

 

[Windjammer]

There is no doubt IAF Blew pakistani army/Jihadi/mujahideens and Thousands died and PAF did not come for the rescue as usual.

PM Nawaz, had no other option than to run to USA again, for saving pakistani lives due to one mans Madness, which had killed more than 4000 pakistanis; as this war Again slaped another shameless defeat and International condemnation without achieving any of its objevtives.

You are trolling sunshine, this is the second time you have repeated your nonsense, don't mischief yourself.

 

[Windjammer]

Even I would take the figure of 4000+ with a pinch of salt specially since PA had the high ground in the war. But Mirage 2K actually did some major damage towards the turning point in the war and there were a lot of casualties during the retreat.. My guess would be a figure closer to 2000-2400 including the irregulars, which is closer to the numbers estimated by GoI and some US think tanks...

If that had indeed been the figure, then it would have been Pervez Musharaff and not Nawaz Sharif shown the door, it's ironic no one talks about why there were 5000 coffins ordered by the IA.

 

[Ham-ster]

You are trolling sunshine, this is the second time you have repeated your nonsense, don't mischief yourself.

I am not trolling moonlight, I am replying to earlier statements. If you think I am trolling, don't reply and learn to ignore if you must. Avoid showing your kiddish behavior.

GOI ordered 5000 coffins?? I never read about it, probably its another pakistani army rant, similar to recent cheap lie about India stealing water, when required amount of water had always been supplied to thirsty pakistan.

Musharaf took over pakistan for power and due to frustration, its a know fact that Army in pakistan can assume power whenever they wish to, they don't give a damn about peoples aspirations or hv any respect for democracy.

 

[Frankenstein]

Oh yes.... My little brain cannot comprehend the facts like Pakistan has used its F-16 in 1979 while the first delivery took place in 1982. So please pour more divine thoughts like these to this common senseless little kid from India.

Errr sucha pervert, i was talking about Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 , Off the topic but i think i need to spoon feed you, go on read it, especially the bold parts:

Pakistan was the second nation (after Israel) to use the F-16 in combat. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 in support of the pro-Soviet government in Kabul, which was being hard-pressed by Mujahadeen rebel forces, marked the start of a decade-long occupation. Mujahadeen rebels continued to harass the occupying Soviet military force as well as the forces of the Afghan regime that it was supporting. The war soon spilled over into neighboring Pakistan, with a horde of refugees fleeing to camps across the border in an attempt to escape the conflict. In addition, many of the rebels used Pakistan as a sanctuary from which to carry out forays into Afghanistan, and a steady flow of US-supplied arms were carried into Afghanistan from staging areas in Pakistan near the border. This inevitably resulted in border violations by Soviet and Afghan aircraft attempting to interdict these operations.

Between May 1986 and November of 1988, PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25). Most of these kills were by the AIM-9 Sidewinder, but at least one (a Su-22) was destroyed by cannon fire. Flight Lieutenant Khalid Mamood is credited with three of these kills. At least one F-16 was lost in these battles, this one in an encounter between two F-16s and six Afghan Air Force aircraft on April 29th, 1987. However, the lost F-16 appears to have been an 'own goal', having been hit by a Sidewinder fired by the other F-16. The unfortunate F-16 pilot (Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan) ejected safely.

YOU REALLY NEED TO GET YOUR FACTs STRAIGHT MAN
The bold parts in the quote is the only fact you have written so far

 

[karan.1970]

If that had indeed been the figure, then it would have been Pervez Musharaff and not Nawaz Sharif shown the door, it's ironic no one talks about why there were 5000 coffins ordered by the IA.

And Musharraf was on the verge of being arrested when Musharraf staged a coup to establish his dictatorship...

About Indian casualties, since this was not a clandestine operation, it wouldnt have been possible for IA to hide deaths of 4500 soldiers (using your figure of 5000 coffins) forever..

It would have been much easier on the pakistani side since a large part of the force was irregulars from militant organizations...

 

[Windjammer]

I am not trolling moonlight, I am replying to earlier statements. If you think I am trolling, don't reply and learn to ignore if you must. Avoid showing your kiddish behavior.

GOI ordered 5000 coffins?? I never read about it, probably its another pakistani army rant, similar to recent cheap lie about India stealing water, when required amount of water had always been supplied to thirsty pakistan.

Musharaf took over pakistan for power and due to frustration, its a know fact that Army in pakistan can assume power whenever they wish to, they don't give a damn about peoples aspirations or hv any respect for democracy.

Albeit the thread is about the Indian Jaguar upgrade but some nit picks are adamant to digress since they are unable to digest.
You claim to know about what goes on inside Pakistan but yet are oblivious to your own sand pits, well you display typical Indian morality. You mean to say you have never heard of the Kargil Coffin Corruption Scandal. . I am sure your deference minister resigned over the affair.
Go and do some home work and then rant about Pakistan.