J-16D - China Builds Its Own 'Wild Weasel' To Suppress Air Defenses

[Deino]

I think he is not Minister of Defence of PRC?

I tell you Russia plundered 1.5 millions SQM land from China in the last 200 years. The Soviet field against PRC by instigating Nehru to invade China in 1962. The current cooperation between the two is just to leverage USA, nothing more than it. we love and care Pakistan, why shall we listen to Russia at weapon deal? The new generation in China is very proud and more assertive, no need to be hold back too much.

And don't forget Soviet keep siding with India to contain Pakistan in the last 60 years. If you forget the history, you can't do it right in the future.

The current Russia military action in Ukraine reminds me how they seperated lands from China. Old habits die hard.

I say J16 is for PAF, all Chinese members in this forum endorse it.
As good friend of India, Russia never give up milking India in all deals!! Be it FGFA, MKI, Carrier, Tanks! No Indians can deny it!
@Beast @cirr @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese-Dragon @Asok

That is indeed correct (concerning I'm not the and might Minister of Defence of PRC) but given the fact that there is a strict clause to NOT-export and of the Chinese-build Flankers I'm more than sure that Beijing will never break that clause even more since the J-16 is de facto an illegal copy of the MKK.

The fact that most Chinese PDF-members "endorse" this, is rather an argument, since none of You too is the Minister of Defence of PRC. If You ask the German members at the German FF, they surely all endorse the end of winter or the end of Trump's stupidity, but that tragically does not matter. None of us is in charge to decide such issues.

Consequently Your argument, China will always side-siding with Pakistan in case of need is surely correct, but that does not mean they will risk their own prosper Sino-Russian-relationship and break that contract. To transfer some of their own fighters in case of war is surely beyond that but so far there's - thank god - no need for such a dramatic decision.

Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

That is indeed correct (concerning I'm not the and might Minister of Defence of PRC) but given the fact that there is a strict clause to NOT-export and of the Chinese-build Flankers I'm more than sure that Beijing will never break that clause even more since the J-16 is de facto an illegal copy of the MKK.

The fact that most Chinese PDF-members "endorse" this, is rather an argument, since none of You too is the Minister of Defence of PRC. If You ask the German members at the German FF, they surely all endorse the end of winter or the end of Trump's stupidity, but that tragically does not matter. None of us is in charge to decide such issues.

Consequently Your argument, China will always side-siding with Pakistan in case of need is surely correct, but that does not mean they will risk their own prosper Sino-Russian-relationship and break that contract. To transfer some of their own fighters in case of war is surely beyond that but so far there's - thank god - no need for such a dramatic decision.

Deino

J16 is not a copy. By copy it means exactly the same. Be it engine/radar/avionics/flight control system/ weapon package/ Electronic ware fare, and we adopted American 1553 datalink rather than Russia's. We will put HMCS on J16 as well! It just looks similar, nothing inside is the same. And we will lease the J16 to Pakistan, not export. As Pakistan is not a traditional market of Russia, I see no reason the Russian is of any concern here. If two cars of different manufacturer looks very alike, does it mean one of them breach the IOP?

 

[Deino]

J16 is not a copy. By copy it means exactly the same. Be it engine/radar/avionics/flight control system/ weapon package/ Electronic ware fare, and we adopted American 1553 datalink rather than Russia's. We will put HMCS on J16 as well! It just looks similar, nothing inside is the same. And we will lease the J16 to Pakistan, not export. As Pakistan is not a traditional market of Russia, I see no reason the Russian is of any concern here. If two cars of different manufacturer looks very alike, does it mean one of them breach the IOP?

I know that term is overrated and I fully agree with You, but per Russian perception also the J-11B - de facto the same case as with the Mkk/J-16-story - already deem the J-11B a "copy" of the Su-27SK. I'm fully aware of the fact that new avionics, materials and engine make it de facto a new aircraft, but it is anyway still a Flanker-development.

I think any further discussion in this regard would end up in semantics.

Issue however is not what we think , but how the Russians interpret this break of the contract and therefore I'm sure China handles this issue wisely and carefully enough, not to overstress it. A sale to Pakistan however would be a severe break. Even a "lease" to Pakistan would be such a break and as such it is not a matter of "Pakistan is not a traditional market for Russia" but it is a principle issue.

That's my point.
Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

I know that term is overrated and I fully agree with You, but per Russian perception also the J-11B - de facto the same case as with the Mkk/J-16-story - already deem the J-11B a "copy" of the Su-27SK. I'm fully aware of the fact that new avionics, materials and engine make it de facto a new aircraft, but it is anyway still a Flanker-development.

I think any further discussion in this regard would end up in semantics.

Issue however is not what we think , but how the Russians interpret this break of the contract and therefore I'm sure China handles this issue wisely and carefully enough, not to overstress it. A sale to Pakistan however would be a severe break. Even a "lease" to Pakistan would be such a break and as such it is not a matter of "Pakistan is not a traditional market for Russia" but it is a principle issue.

That's my point.
Deino

We will talk to Russia if PAF is really interested in J16. There is a will, there is a way. Somehow Russia will cut a share in this deal.

The most beneficial way of this deal is to connect China/Russia/Pakistan together, it's win political room for Pakistan. You know Russians love money!

 

[Deino]

But to admit besides the discussion here at the PDF - and honestly if You listen to some fan-boys here, by their will and endorsement the PAF will get everything from €F-Typhoon, Rafale, F-35, FC-31, TF-X and Su-35 (at best all for free) - these negotiations are not reported anywhere and so it is difficult to sort out true rumours for secret things behind from wet-dreams, wishful-thinking and BS-chatter !

 

[maximuswarrior]

We will talk to Russia if PAF is really interested in J16. There is a will, there is a way. Somehow Russia will cut a share in this deal.

The most beneficial way of this deal is to connect China/Russia/Pakistan together, it's win political room for Pakistan. You know Russians love money!

I think this is the way forward. It is an ideal solution. Include Russia into the fold during negotiations. Russia should certainly not be bypassed. One thing is beyond dispute. Pakistan direly needs such an air superiority fighter due to its ongoing CPEC project with China. It would be a massive win win considering that Su-35 is an unlikely candidate. It will also relieve some Indian pressure on Russia. Russia can also become a beneficiary in this deal.

 

[Readerdefence]

That is indeed correct (concerning I'm not the and might Minister of Defence of PRC) but given the fact that there is a strict clause to NOT-export and of the Chinese-build Flankers I'm more than sure that Beijing will never break that clause even more since the J-16 is de facto an illegal copy of the MKK.

The fact that most Chinese PDF-members "endorse" this, is rather an argument, since none of You too is the Minister of Defence of PRC. If You ask the German members at the German FF, they surely all endorse the end of winter or the end of Trump's stupidity, but that tragically does not matter. None of us is in charge to decide such issues.

Consequently Your argument, China will always side-siding with Pakistan in case of need is surely correct, but that does not mean they will risk their own prosper Sino-Russian-relationship and break that contract. To transfer some of their own fighters in case of war is surely beyond that but so far there's - thank god - no need for such a dramatic decision.

Deino

Hi deino if you don't mind shading some light on the following points
1. When China export jf17 to Pakistan some says it's an Israeli version of Lavi
If it's so then how come they have exported to Pakistan
2. Is the F7 version of Chinese jets are solely Chinese innovation if not how come
They are exporting it to Pakistan without taking Russians into confidence
I hope you don't mind giving me some info on the above points
Thanks

 

[nang2]

Hi deino if you don't mind shading some light on the following points
1. When China export jf17 to Pakistan some says it's an Israeli version of Lavi
If it's so then how come they have exported to Pakistan
2. Is the F7 version of Chinese jets are solely Chinese innovation if not how come
They are exporting it to Pakistan without taking Russians into confidence
I hope you don't mind giving me some info on the above points
Thanks

It is J10 that bears resemblance with Lavi, not JF17.

 

[Readerdefence]

It is J10 that bears resemblance with Lavi, not JF17.

Thx for your info
By that perception we can not even get j10 also

 

[nang2]

Thx for your info
By that perception we can not even get j10 also

That is not the reason. J10 is more expensive and comes with overlapping capabilities with existing F-16 fleet in PAF.

 

[Readerdefence]

That is not the reason. J10 is more expensive and comes with overlapping capabilities with existing F-16 fleet in PAF.

Ok but my friend I'm talking about end user contract if that's the case that it was a Lavi project
We shouldn't be dreaming about getting j10 even

 

[nang2]

Ok but my friend I'm talking about end user contract if that's the case that it was a Lavi project
We shouldn't be dreaming about getting j10 even

I am not aware of any restriction on exporting J10 from Israeli side. There was never a contract of technology transfer or purchase. Even Chinese designers deny the connection and claim it was developed from J-9, which was before Lavi.

The plane has already been put on the shelf for export.

 

[MastanKhan]

But to admit besides the discussion here at the PDF - and honestly if You listen to some fan-boys here, by their will and endorsement the PAF will get everything from €F-Typhoon, Rafale, F-35, FC-31, TF-X and Su-35 (at best all for free) - these negotiations are not reported anywhere and so it is difficult to sort out true rumours for secret things behind from wet-dreams, wishful-thinking and BS-chatter !

Deino,

There have been a few fighter aircraft deals that have been called off at the very last moment by the vested interests in the Paf---.

These deals had the blessings of the govt---but the F16 mafia in the Paf overruled them in the end.

 

[singlefighter]

In short is there any chance of J16 for PAF,or just a thread which ends in a silence just like the EFT and SU-35.ask PAF top brass please buy some thing new and leave F-16 and used Mirages

 

[nomi007]

best alternative of su-35
best for paf
with russian engine