J-10C for PAF - Hypothetical Scenario

[Falcon26]

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

 

[JohnWick]

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

J-10C is a good plane, also PL-15 capable, sanctions free, but it has crashed many times, TVC is not enough and the money is meant to be spend on project AZM.
And we don't need to reinvent the Wheel again.....

 

[Windjammer]

My only reservation about J-10 is that it's bigger than both the Typhoon and Rafale and almost the same size as the F/A-18, yet it only has a single-engine.

 

[denel]

Nothing wrong with J-10c but engine is a problem area for a long time.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

My 2 cents:
Buying a new platform isn't so easy. You have to train crew and maintain supply chains. Its a very costly procedure. Only way to bring cost down is to buy it in large numbers and have lisence production.
In case of PAF buying J-10s there are multiple factors:
We already have a plane in the same category with healthy numbers. F-16s still have technical edge on J-10s. Second is the budget. Even if we get 36 J-10s we will have to allocate funds for training and maintenance. It will eat up funds for other platforms. We are working on AZM so that by 2040s we can replace F-16s completely which means if we have J-10s they will be replaced too. It means we will get a new platform just for 15 years(5 years for production and training). And by the time PAF would have mastered it their retirement would have come.

 

[StormBreaker]

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

If you are trying to just generalize the “UNDER-PERFORMANCE” of J-10 with having everything Chinese origin, then applying that theory, similarly our Thunders are no less useless ?

Buddy, that’s a very wrong ASSESSMENT. What makes you think “Turkey having geographical half in Europe” make them producing “First-Timer” avionics as Northrop G or LockheedM /Selex level ?

What experience do they have that China lacks ? China has proven itself in EVERY FIELD while Turkey is where China was a decade ago.

These Chinese origin products on Thunder have proven their worth in Ground ops of PAF as well as CAP missions and 27 Feb.

As for J-10, J-10 can be TRUELY made a REAL REPLY to Rafale threat, it can host more BVRs, has a better engine, in turn can host a STRONGER RADAR, and ECM/EW Suite and Better PLAAF missiles such as the RAMJET one under development. All these combined are something even Block 3 thunder as a Light weight fighter CANT afford.

Block 3 will be the BEST A LIGHT WEIGHT FIGHTER AIRCRAFT can offer against a Threat like Rafale but the category of F-16 B60/70 or J-10C can truely give you the freedom to equip it with the BEST to make rafale seem like less of a threat.

Send in one J-10C or 3 Block 3 Thunder against a rafale. (Not taking into account supporting aircraft such as AWACS).

J-10C gives you the option of EVER-Lasting options for A stronger AESA radar to even outmatch the one in Rafale, China is investing quite time in this and the radar of J-20 was also tested on J-10 testbed. It can’t on a thunder...

CUT THIS PLEASE !!!

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Block 3 will be the BEST A LIGHT WEIGHT FIGHTER AIRCRAFT

Better than Gripen E?

 

[StormBreaker]

Better than Gripen E?

E is not a light weight (PERIOD)

 

[Umar Nazir]

Better than Gripen E?

Gripen is probably the best light weight fighter jet may be even better than medium weight F-16 as well , excellent Engine and very lethal weapons and most surprisingly only 4700 dollar per hour flight cost

Nothing wrong with J-10c but engine is a problem area for a long time.

yup only 3000 hour life span

 

[Kompromat]

No thanks

 

[Saifullah]

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

Jf17 is really good platform which can do all those things. Add another hp for Bvr and use MER on current bvr hp is gona be more than enough. This all is extremely easy and achievable. If you still need more CFT should be put on it will be good. This loadout might sounds heavy but at the time of fight all the excess will be droped i.e. Fuel Tanks and their will not be that extreme of difference in performance.

In avionics Hardware could be sourced from outside or could be licensed manufactured in house but the software MUST be developed in house. Get AESA manufacturing rights and develop our own software which can be improved as the time goes. An excellent software on mediocre hardware will always gives better results than mediocre Software on brilliant Hardware. Software always starts with bad results, it's the Evolution which make the software better. Our Babay are still not on to the software part.

For engine Pakistan must join the WS19 train i.e. JV, even though critical part manufacturing will never be share but still if we can get major part of engine to be produced in Pakistan it will be extremely good thing. WS19 has the potential to be the heart of our NGF or i might say it's the only one which can give us good machine. We can also use it on JF17 later on.

 

[StormBreaker]

Jf17 is really good platform which can do all those things. Add another hp for Bvr and use MER on current bvr hp is gona be more than enough. This all is extremely easy and achievable. If you still need more CFT should be put on it will be good. This loadout might sounds heavy but at the time of fight all the excess will be droped i.e. Fuel Tanks and their will not be that extreme of difference in performance.

In avionics Hardware could be sourced from outside or could be licensed manufactured in house but the software MUST be developed in house. Get AESA manufacturing rights and develop our own software which can be improved as the time goes. An excellent software on mediocre hardware will always gives better results than mediocre Software on brilliant Hardware. Software always starts with bad results, it's the Evolution which make the software better. Our Babay are still not on to the software part.

For engine Pakistan must join the WS19 train i.e. JV, even though critical part manufacturing will never be share but still if we can get major part of engine to be produced in Pakistan it will be extremely good thing. WS19 has the potential to be the heart of our NGF or i might say it's the only one which can give us good machine. We can also use it on JF17 later on.

Bhai jahaz bana rahe hain, not soup or sweet dish, jo chahrn add karden aur barha den.

CFTs laga lo, 1 ho daldo, engine WS-19 lagalo.

 

[Kabotar]

From reading @messiach comments on JF-17 thread I got the feeling that PAF might be interested in J35 but that jet is FAR AWAY from becoming a real consideration even it's engine WS19 is suppose to complete development in 2025 and these projects rarely meet deadlines. But a year or so back there was a Washington Post(I think) article which claimed that Pak & China are working on a new SEZ where next gen aircraft will be built now that could be pure gibberish or there might be some truth in that as PAF chief said that they also intend to make engines for NGF which realistically is Chinese OEM setting up production facility in Pakistan, it is unlikely that Pakistan will get another Russian engine Su57 will most likely go to India which means Pakistan will not have access to that engine, Mikoyan is developing a medium weight 5th gen fighter with UAE which will directly compete with NGF on paper, Turks are just starting out that to with RR so there might be restriction on that as well, so that leaves Chinese option only.

As much as I like J10 I don't see what it will bring in addition to JF17 other than range and additional payload but our enemy is right next door, 10 to 15 min flight from forward base and you will cross IB what we need is a longer legged SOW such as Raptor 3 or RAAD "lite". This money could be used to deck out or increase production on blk3.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

 

[TheTallGuy]

I think why we not have J10A/B/S or C is the engine. Chinese Engine once matured enough to level of GE or PW or even Russian Level of RD93/AL31FN we will have it. before then not possible.

Even PLAAF 50% of 4 gen fighter force uses Russian Engines now they have improved handsomely but not yet matured properly. Chinese engine maturity cycle is 10 years of Operation.

until recently we have seen pictures of J20 and J10C in FOC with WS15 and WS10 so i still believe possible but a long shot that PAF goes for it.

 

[Trailer23]

My only reservation about J-10 is that it's bigger than both the Typhoon and Rafale and almost the same size as the F/A-18, yet it only has a single-engine.

Just to give a clearer picture (literally) of what @Windjammer is pointing out.