J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

[Dr Shaheryar]

SAM is the answer for this time period. Either HQ9 or S300. In the meantime develop JF-17 Block 2 and 3. Replace old 190 planes because they are becoming obsolete and look for future in Fifth Generation planes and invest in them. Economic development will support this, also heard today that Defence budget will be doubled hopefully this will support future acquisitions.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

IAF is going to buy 2 types of medium weight fighter jet one is rafale and second is most probably F-18 E/F or the upgraded F-18I.. and PAF haven't chose anything to counter them.. is there any fighter jet other than f-16 to counter rafale and f-18?

@MastanKhan @Windjammer @volatile @ACE OF THE AIR

It seems India is still struggling to find the right choice of aircraft to fulfill their needs. MMRCA raised a requirement of 130 aircraft. Today after 10 years that requirement has increased to some thing over 200 aircraft.

This delay has also had an impact on the Indian Navy. Recently they have decommissioned Harriers without having any replacement in sight.

SAAB was looking to enter the Indian market hence they went over board unknowingly they played a hand in the trials of F-18's. This is going to cost Saab dearly because the India would not buy them. If they would buy these aircraft then LCA would be doomed.

As far as Pakistan is concerned India having both Rafales and F-18's along with Mig 29, M2K, Su-30 and Jaguars, would be a concern but those would be a major concern for the Chinese.

What can be done?
There are 3 options in the short term and 2 options in the long term...Which one is selected would be up to the PAF's threat perception.

Short term solutions are EFT, SU-34 and SU-35.
Most members think that PAF would be going after J-10B or J-10C but they have to understand that the Chinese Engine is not mature...Russian would only allow a more powerful engine once PAF selected a Russian platform (4sqd minimum).

EFT though expensive is far superior to what India has or would have. The issue is EJ-200 or EJ-220 might end up in China.
This problem can be solved if PAC acquires capability to modify the JF-17 without the engine being sent to China for the necessary structural modifications. Or PAF decides not to incorporate these engines on JF-17 at all.

One has to be very clear PAF F-16's are going no where...They are here and would be available. Replacing them with additional numbers of JF-17's or any of the short term solution is also not possible.
The F-16's would be replaced by long term solutions....

Long term solutions are J-20,J31, and TFX...
This is a most logical way forward for PAF....

Any order today by India would come by 2019-2020 and complete by 2030. J-20 / J-31 would also follows a similar schedule for the Chinese and if PAF enters this project then it would be on the same schedule.

F-16's of PAF are supposed to be replaced by 2025-30 which falls in line with the schedule of TFX.

So for some time IAF would be loosing aircraft and replacements would not be arriving at the pace they would want. PAF till that time is well ahead in developing JF-17's and ordering any aircraft it wishes.

 

[_NOBODY_]

It seems India is still struggling to find the right choice of aircraft to fulfill their needs. MMRCA raised a requirement of 130 aircraft. Today after 10 years that requirement has increased to some thing over 200 aircraft.

This delay has also had an impact on the Indian Navy. Recently they have decommissioned Harriers without having any replacement in sight.

SAAB was looking to enter the Indian market hence they went over board unknowingly they played a hand in the trials of F-18's. This is going to cost Saab dearly because the India would not buy them. If they would buy these aircraft then LCA would be doomed.

As far as Pakistan is concerned India having both Rafales and F-18's along with Mig 29, M2K, Su-30 and Jaguars, would be a concern but those would be a major concern for the Chinese.

What can be done?
There are 3 options in the short term and 2 options in the long term...Which one is selected would be up to the PAF's threat perception.

Short term solutions are EFT, SU-34 and SU-35.
Most members think that PAF would be going after J-10B or J-10C but they have to understand that the Chinese Engine is not mature...Russian would only allow a more powerful engine once PAF selected a Russian platform (4sqd minimum).

EFT though expensive is far superior to what India has or would have. The issue is EJ-200 or EJ-220 might end up in China.
This problem can be solved if PAC acquires capability to modify the JF-17 without the engine being sent to China for the necessary structural modifications. Or PAF decides not to incorporate these engines on JF-17 at all.

One has to be very clear PAF F-16's are going no where...They are here and would be available. Replacing them with additional numbers of JF-17's or any of the short term solution is also not possible.
The F-16's would be replaced by long term solutions....

Long term solutions are J-20,J31, and TFX...
This is a most logical way forward for PAF....

Any order today by India would come by 2019-2020 and complete by 2030. J-20 / J-31 would also follows a similar schedule for the Chinese and if PAF enters this project then it would be on the same schedule.

F-16's of PAF are supposed to be replaced by 2025-30 which falls in line with the schedule of TFX.

So for some time IAF would be loosing aircraft and replacements would not be arriving at the pace they would want. PAF till that time is well ahead in developing JF-17's and ordering any aircraft it wishes.

I agree with you about EFT, it is the second best fighter in terms of air superiority below F-22. We can purchase them in small numbers and then gradually complete a squadron since we are not in a hurry to complete squadron or squadrons of EFT. The cruise speed of Typhoon is equal to the maximum speed of JF-17 which makes it a nightmare for enemy's air defenses. Typhoon(and Su-35 as well but ignore Su-35 in this post) is the most agile plane on this planet which makes perfect for WVR combat. It also has outstanding BVR capabilities. Typhoon is a perfect fighter for PAF. Purchase of EFT would allow us to get our hands on its Avionics for JF-17. We need a fighter good enough to counter Rafale and the only fighters(4++ generation) that can defeat Rafale are EFT and F-15SE. F-15SE won't be available to us and even if it was then there is a danger of sanctions and this leaves EFT as the only option. The funds can be arranged especially after CPEC.
@Quwa @The Eagle

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I agree with you about EFT, it is the second best fighter in terms of air superiority below F-22. We can purchase them in small numbers and then gradually complete a squadron since we are not in a hurry to complete squadron or squadrons of EFT. The cruise speed of Typhoon is equal to the maximum speed of JF-17 which makes it a nightmare for enemy's air defenses. Typhoon(and Su-35 as well but ignore Su-35 in this post) is the most agile plane on this planet which makes perfect for WVR combat. It also has outstanding BVR capabilities. Typhoon is a perfect fighter for PAF. Purchase of EFT would allow us to get our hands on its Avionics for JF-17. We need a fighter good enough to counter Rafale and the only fighters(4++ generation) that can defeat Rafale are EFT and F-15SE. F-15SE won't be available to us and even if it was then there is a danger of sanctions and this leaves EFT as the only option. The funds can be arranged especially after CPEC.
@Quwa @The Eagle

This is a nice article to read...
https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2015/11/01/dassault-rafale-vs-eurofighter-typhoon/

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@ACE OF THE AIR

Kuwait has agreed for a 9 billion dollars deal for 28 Eurofighters

You have that kind of money

 

[_NOBODY_]

@ACE OF THE AIR

Kuwait has agreed for a 9 billion dollars deal for 28 Eurofighters

You have that kind of money

Even if we don't have it we can take soft loans from China or KSA plus we can induct it in small numbers and then gradually complete a squadron.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Even if we don't have it we can take soft loans from China or KSA plus we can induct them in small numbers and then gradually complete a squadron.

OK ; Best of Luck

 

[_NOBODY_]

OK ; Best of Luck

Thank you.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@ACE OF THE AIR

Kuwait has agreed for a 9 billion dollars deal for 28 Eurofighters

You have that kind of money

You know that offer India had about Rafales was of 12 billion for 129 aircraft. The order that might be signed is of 36 at a cost of 8.9 billion. Is that not expensive comparing to what MMRCA was going to offer.

At the end it is all down to a simple rule:
BUYING IN LARGE QUANTITY REDUCES OVER ALL PRICE.

 

[Jhon Smith]

Had USA given AIM120 or AIM9x to PAF?

KSA has many advance fighter jets but they might not allowed Pak to fly them or learn on them.

Aircraft Origin Role Version Quantity Note
Fighter aircraft
McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle United States Strike fighter SA
S 84 on order
70 70 S variant to be upgraded to SA standard.[15][16]
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle United States Fighter C
D 70
16 .[17]
Eurofighter Typhoon European Union Multirole fighter T.2
T.3A 48
24 72 on order, all will be manufactured by BAE Wartonfacility, instead of planned final assembly line in Saudi Arabia.[18] A further 72 may be up.[19]
Panavia Tornado IDS European Union Ground attack 80 Being upgraded at a cost of $4.66 billion.

 

[his5850]

Hi,

It does not work that way---you have to start with top down----. The top is your SHINING SWORD----that kkeps the enemies away---.

The paf took a gamble with the french avionics---and it failed due to bad management----. They were trying to replace old planes---it backfired----they cannot refill positions for old planes---they cannot fill the hole at the top now---there are serious problems.

One thing to rember is that if your outer Parameter security is firm and secure---your inner parameter security will be firm and secure----but if you are just a shell outside---the inside would crack.

So---if your top tier is strong---and you plan well---you get the pick of the litter.

Rich people with more money get more money---poor people with less money cannot get anything.


Hi,

Off course---the eurofighter for one-----then also look for the J10C----. Hook up with aselsan / vixen for avionics---use these 3 to 4 years in the right manner and you have something to counter the Rafale in 6 years in yout J10C's.

what the hell are talking about let say we do as you said let's add J-10 too right now then you will have 3 generation fighter and mix match of 4th generation fighter that is same plane as Indian that is just stupid every one talks about Indian 220 SU-30's but no one talk about India can only operate half of them if want that for PAF then sure do it if you think JF-17 is gamble then i can't be reason with you you are strong as the weakest link

1)now you have 4 types of fighters F7,7P mirages JF-17 and F-16 that means 4 type of different training and spare parts now add J-10 too one more training one more spar parts with it will only add more cost for now

2)PAF still have time every one and the world is going for 2 class system F-22 and F-35 SU-35 and MIG-35 J-10 and J-11 or J-15 why because it is cheaper and economical JF-17 will allow us to remove 2 types of 3 generation planes after that you will only have 2 type of planes that means is PAF will the time and resources to add or integrate or replace one other plane to the fleet that the hole point

J-10 is inferior to the F-16 in all regards. J-10 is considered 3.5 gen fighter.

100 % agree , and v can say yes relative to its time, and still today, the F-16 is a top choice for countries around the world. The F-16 may be on its way 2 being phased out, but, it will be a while before even the U.S. has completely replaced them with the F-22 and F-35.
Innovative
When the F-16 arrived on the scene it brought with is certain innovations that made it a top air-to-air fighter.
A cockpit that was unencumbered by a frame allowed the pilot to have near 360 degrees of view of the battle field. Its elevated and inclined pilot seat enabled the pilot to handle near 9G turns, allowing it to turn tighter on the competition. Then you have the fly-by-wire controls creating faster response and smoother flights. And last, but certainly not least, a side mounted joystick (A side-stick this is found in aircraft that are equipped with fly-by-wire control systems). Moving this to the pilot’s right side versus the traditional center mounted control stick let the pilot maintain control in during tight maneuvers as his arm was supported on an arm rest.

is that news true about F 16 jets as USa r going to end its production , r they going to sell F 16 manufacturing plant to india???



SINGAPORE: US fighter jet maker Lockheed Martin today said it is ready to manufacture F-16 aircraft in India and supports the ongoing talks between the two countries to set up the first manufacturing facility, one of the largest projects under the 'Make in India' initiative.


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

where the hell you people getting your information J-10 is not 3.5 generation fighter it is 4+ or 4.5 generation fighter it is Chinese 3.5 generation fighter because china didn't build any 1st generation fighters if USA going to start build F-16 in India then pakistan will not buy F-16 then it will be replace and i think Boeing going to start building Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in India not F-16

 

[Jhon Smith]

where the hell you people getting your information J-10 is not 3.5 generation fighter it is 4+ or 4.5 generation fighter it is Chinese 3.5 generation fighter because china didn't build any 1st generation fighters if USA going to start build F-16 in India then pakistan will not buy F-16 then it will be replace and i think Boeing going to start building Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in India not F-16

Hi Man, I got my information from , bloomberg , globalresearch . ca and many more westren defence sites regarding Lockheed chairman offer 2 India for F 16!!
Why r you thinking that its fake news? what are your source ? While many 100 newspaper journalist (including British and American) around the world file that report " bloomberg news r

• Lockheed chairman made offer to Indian PM Modi in September
• Lockheed in talks with Tata, others to find possible partner

Lockheed Martin Corp. has offered to build its flagship F-16 fighter jet in India, as the South Asian nation scrambles to modernize its aging defense fleet while trying to establish the country as a manufacturing base.

"

Can you disclose your news source that Lockheed Martin Corp are not going to do any thing on F 16 in India?? why you have thinking in this way? Please share ur source of claims?

PAk air force has Hercules aircraft and the above youtube video says Hercules aircraft r made by TATA and USA in india.

 

[his5850]

Hi Man, I got my information from , bloomberg , globalresearch . ca and many more westren defence sites regarding Lockheed chairman offer 2 India for F 16!!
Why r you thinking that its fake news? what are your source ? While many 100 newspaper journalist (including British and American) around the world file that report " bloomberg news r

• Lockheed chairman made offer to Indian PM Modi in September
• Lockheed in talks with Tata, others to find possible partner

Lockheed Martin Corp. has offered to build its flagship F-16 fighter jet in India, as the South Asian nation scrambles to modernize its aging defense fleet while trying to establish the country as a manufacturing base.

"

Can you disclose your news source that Lockheed Martin Corp are not going to do any thing on F 16 in India?? why you have thinking in this way? Please share ur source of claims?

PAk air force has Hercules aircraft and the above youtube video says Hercules aircraft r made by TATA and USA in india.

it is still not clear that india is going for F-16 or F-18 Boeing and Lockheed Martin both want to open production line india but if Rafale is signed then they will not will need F-18 or F-16 there option are open but India is in more favor of F-18 from US fighters
http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/will-india-and-the-united-states-coproduce-fighter-aircraft/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-keen-on-USs-F/A-18-jet-offer/articleshow/51706566.cms
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...per-hornet-fighter-jets-for-iaf/1/626657.html

If that happens Pakistan will have no choice to go for J-10 to counter them and J-10 is a dam good fighter can counter FA-18 F-16 and Rafale one of the reasons that pakistan did not bought J-10 is Pakistan still looking which fighter Indian going to buy then PAF will decide which fighter is better from PAF

 

[帅的一匹]

What will be PAF's reaction if India start to produce F16?

 

[his5850]

What will be PAF's reaction if India start to produce F16?

buy J-10 or SU-35 but it will more likely to be F-18