It's now or never situation again

[ziaulislam]

Taliban were created and supported by Pak Army to fight Russians but that simply backfired on us because army used FATA and Balochistan as a launch pad of their Anti Russian operations.Their extreme Jihadist philosophy spelled great influence on the people of FATA so that TTP Islamists who are also Pushtoons started to kill their own people in FATA

First due to Army,FATA people were affected by extremism
And then to eliminate that extremism, army went on to do extra judicial killing
Even US drone strikes were allowed on these people
As if they they were yateems.

I don't know what could have been alternative,but extremism army created to fight Russians is going to f#ck off the state of Pakistan big time.


All we can do is to vote IK
What else option we have?

Talk to your local representative about it
Make it an issue

This racial sectarian crap needs to be dismantled and destroyed. Whoever peddles it, enforces it, gives encouragement of it needs to be dealt with including inept politicians and "other" leaders. The genuine grievances of people whether in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa region or Baluchistan needs addressing as well. Politicians have focused far too long on Punjab/Sindh because of vote banks and economics. Otherwise we walk a tight rope of balkanisation of the country into different groups which doesn't benefit anyone, even Pak's enemies.

It's honestly simple.
FOLLOW THE LAW AND CONSTITUTION like any other MODERN CIVILIZED COUNTRY is doing

We are worse then India in human right violations

 

[Mirzali Khan]

We are worse then India in human right violations

Even India doesn’t do air strikes in Kashmir.

 

[Burger_King]

Sorry but primary blame lies with Afghani elites for:

1. Being dumasses and not recognising Durand line

2. Thinking they could implement communism in a country where vast majority of people could not read or write.

3. For being intolerant morons and not giving space to people with different views. This includes different communist factions who were fighting each other kutta bilee style

4 For seeking Russian and Indian help.

Other big villan in this saga are the Russians who walked into American trap and ended up coughing the Russian empire. Another consequence was the creation of unipolar world of American hegemony with disastrous consequences for ummah.

Pakistan did very little to cause the conflict but became a victim due to blowback which could have been handled better. But then what do we expect when Sharifs and Zardaris are at the helm?

 

[lightning F57]

Even India doesn’t do air strikes in Kashmir.

Pak can not allow its airspace to be used to bomb its own people, this crap needs to end as well. Any bombing done needs to be done by Pak armed forces not some foreign power which Zardari and the likes hide behind. Absolutely not was something I highly respected IK on.

 

[hussain0216]

Taliban were created and supported by Pak Army to fight Russians but that simply backfired on us because army used FATA and Balochistan as a launch pad of their Anti Russian operations.Their extreme Jihadist philosophy spelled great influence on the people of FATA so that TTP Islamists who are also Pushtoons started to kill their own people in FATA

First due to Army,FATA people were affected by extremism
And then to eliminate that extremism, army went on to do extra judicial killing
Even US drone strikes were allowed on these people
As if they they were yateems.

I don't know what could have been alternative,but extremism army created to fight Russians is going to f#ck off the state of Pakistan big time.


All we can do is to vote IK
What else option we have?

Except that Taliban came in the 90s


Which ghairatmand afghanis were attacking us in the 1940s, 50's, 60s, 70s and 80s then

Sorry but primary blame lies with Afghani elites for:

1. Being dumasses and not recognising Durand line

2. Thinking they could implement communism in a country where vast majority of people could not read or write.

3. For being intolerant morons and not giving space to people with different views. This includes different communist factions who were fighting each other kutta bilee style

4 For seeking Russian and Indian help.

Other big villan in this saga are the Russians who walked into American trap and ended up coughing the Russian empire. Another consequence was the creation of unipolar world of American hegemony with disastrous consequences for ummah.

Pakistan did very little to cause the conflict but became a victim due to blowback which could have been handled better. But then what do we expect when Sharifs and Zardaris are at the helm?

Absolutely the afghans SOLD tribal areas

The afghans took MONEY for these people

They were cattle to the afghans

Then when Pakistan was established they rather then make peace and made it easy for Pashtuns on both sides to travel and trade

They ATTACKED Pakistan REPEATEDLY, refused to accept the border, supported insurgency over multiple decades


They INVITED the Soviets and Pakistan had to take care of millions of the Namak haramis



The Afghan are a thankless, harami people who never introspect
We can't spend the rest of existence waiting for afghans to act like humans

 

[TheSolution]

I am glade you sleep good with peace obtained on innocent blood.

Well it's a serious question

Would you choose the little peace you have today, or outright refuse to take those actions and arguably never being able to effectively root out Al Qaeda and ISIS, perhaps them even taking control of Pakistan as a whole?

I do agree innocent blood should always be avoided but what if there was no other way out?

It seems like an argument on how much collateral damage you can tolerate, but my opinion would remain the same even if it was Lahore, Karachi or any other area.

Avoid all civilian casualties but at what point is it simply unavoidable?

 

[ziaulislam]

Well it's a serious question

Would you choose the little peace you have today, or outright refuse to take those actions and arguably never being able to effectively root out Al Qaeda and ISIS, perhaps them even taking control of Pakistan as a whole?

I do agree innocent blood should always be avoided but what if there was no other way out?

It seems like an argument on how much collateral damage you can tolerate, but my opinion would remain the same even if it was Lahore, Karachi or any other area.

Avoid all civilian casualties but at what point is it simply unavoidable?

Killing of civilians had nothing to do with peace. These are facts.
No peace was obtained by hitman roa Anwar

 

[Sayfullah]

Pakistan has been having 'ISLAMIC REVOLUTION' for 75 years. If the revolution starts spinning any faster, it will reach Afghanistan. Last I heard, some people were unhappy there. Will you go and put your shoulders to the wheel and help it spin faster or just press the up arrow on the remote control?

Are you Muslim?
If not don’t reply to my posts.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@ziaulislam

So, according to you, "Roa" Anwar killed innocent Pashtuns in Karachi..

He is Zardari's man

PTM considers Zardari as their Abba g


And you want Lahore to be bombed in retaliation ??!!

 

[Sayfullah]

The only solution for Pakistan is an Islamic Revolution and Islamic system in Pakistan.

If not then don’t complain when ethnic nationalism spreads through the country and separatism grows.

Pakistan can only be united through Islam.

 

[ziaulislam]

@ziaulislam

So, according to you, "Roa" Anwar killed innocent Pashtuns in Karachi..

He is Zardari's man

PTM considers Zardari as their Abba g


And you want Lahore to be bombed in retaliation ??!!

Lol zardari man.wtf ????

 

[Maula Jatt]

The only solution for Pakistan is an Islamic Revolution and Islamic system in Pakistan.

If not then don’t complain when ethnic nationalism spreads through the country and separatism grows.

Pakistan can only be united through Islam.

Rule of law, following constitution of Pakistan to the T, democracy, separation of powers, delegation of power - like anyother modern State

Islamic blah, blah, blah
More Islamic blah blah blah, turn our women into enslaved cow's like in pre MBs SA, Afghanistan, ISIS states, do more retarted shit that comes with it , alienate our Urban society (highest % in South Asia)

Not the kinda future our people deserve nor does our culture matches with that

 

[Sayfullah]

Rule of law, following constitution of Pakistan to the T, democracy, separation of powers, delegation of power - like anyother modern State
View attachment 915184
Islamic blah, blah, blah
More Islamic blah blah blah, turn our women into enslaved cow's like in pre MBs SA, Afghanistan, ISIS states, do more retarted shit that comes with it , alienate our Urban society (highest % in South Asia)
View attachment 915185

You guys are living in lalaland.
Why don’t you open your eyes and see the situation in Balochistan and KP?
Those two provinces are basically lost now. Go look at the separatism there. Get out your bubble. Leave Punjab and see the situation if the rest of the country. If not just look at PDF threads to see what the feeling is like in the rest of the country.
You can play constitution and “rule of law” yourself while the rest of the country separates. 75 years of basically secularism and still Pakistan has no rule of law.

Pakistan isn’t America. There is only 1 way to unite Pakistan. If you refuse that then don’t complain when every province breaks away and Pakistan Balkanizes.

Islamic blah, blah, blah
More Islamic blah blah blah, turn our women into enslaved cow's like in pre MBs SA, Afghanistan, ISIS states, do more retarted shit that comes with it , alienate our Urban society (highest % in South Asia)

Ofc someone like you would think this means Islamic. No point in talking about Islamic with someone who basically called him self an atheist in other PDF threads. You have to be a Muslim to understand.

Afghanistan

Give it some years and you’ll see even they pass us in economy. Same as Bangladesh crossed us.

 

[Ssan]

Question is simple..

Why did people okayed drones extra judiciary killing of balochs and pushtoons and CSF $$$ in KP settled and unsettled areas of Pakistan??

Answer: but but but ..

Reminds of Israeli justification

This is one thing I have to agree with over here. Also establishment blue eyed boy was literally telling taliban that it’s okay if you bomb KP and Karachi, just don’t come to Lahore. The sentiment has some basis in reality.

They attacked schools so you kidnapping random people made them disappeared or killed them via roa Anwar and then you again randomly killed people via drones and bombs.

What's the difference between Taliban and Pakistani state then?
Nothing

Our agencies need to prosecute people fairly. This is true too. Just killing people in operations is not ideal. Like it or not, too many people die in false police encounters too.

But the problem is this. Our justice system is dysfunctional. Instead of jailing terrorists, they are eventually released. Originally I used to think that justice system is weak because we have had corrupt PDM ruling over us. Now I think justice system is weak so that establishment can have a free hand.

I am not from FATA these are not my thoughts
These are thoughts of pushtoons of FATA and I have no answer to them.
I have to say they were right.

There will be no healing as no one thinks anything wrong was done to them..those who kidnapped and killed people are enjoying their villas in UAE and roaming free like roa Anwar

There are plenty who believe wrong was done. PTI among them. IK has said much the same.

====
When I listen to arguments of most Pakistani on drones and kidnapping and killing

I hear either Israelis or Taliban ..

It's hard to believe that ISI hasn't trained with mosaad..there methods are so similar

It seems mosaad trained ISI who then trained Talibans...all three have same tactics

I think in the long run, integrating FATA into KPK is a good move and will provide dividends when the state is able to serve these areas.

Having said all that, and more, the issue is that having an ethnic nationalist movement is dumb. The only long term solution is to push for nationalist solutions that make the system work more efficiently.

 

[Ssan]

To be honest I do think there is interaction between Mossad and ISI, but I don't think training

You don't need any specicial training to drone something or air strike or build intel. Even Amreeka can help with this.

My question is, would we have the little bit of peace we have today if we didn't do what was done in the past?

Were those actions necessary to defeat the menace of terrorism at the time?

The first line of defense would have been to have effective and competent governance in those areas. With focus of service delivery. This would have engendered patriotism and loyalty.

The second and last line of defense would have been the military operation like zarb-e-azab. This should have been done sooner than it was. And over the objections of politicians. Including Khan if he was opposing it. Although Khan was saying - do step 1 above.

What was not okay which was what the establishment actually did was drone strikes. This is so dumb on so many levels. Who drone strikes their own country? What the heck?

They followed up drone strikes by forced disappearances, extra judicial activities. Frankly, we used to give them benefit of doubt on this because we believed fault was judiciaries who could not prosecute properly. But alas, I think this was also a mistake. The last ten months has shown us how competent the establishment is, and how well it can discriminate between friend and foe.