ITALY APPROVED $762 M IN ARMS SALES TO PAKISTAN IN 2018

[denel]

IMHO ... ASR has put a high bar on Project Azm, so it stands to reason what money they might have spent every year on buying and supporting a twin-engine fighter is now going into developing the FGFA. I really can't see how we'd develop a fighter (let alone FGFA) for anything less than $300-400 m a year.

any development is highly capital intensive; our cheetah project alone cost us in those times over a bil $ but there was no way out for us. it was the cost overall of entire infrastructure.

 

[khanasifm]

Looks like called out torpedos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A244-S

And perhaps black shark

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Still is bro IF the PAF were to have the finances it would be done quickly. God I wish the PAF have the finances now or somewhat soon to place an order. I'd love to see a Typhoon over the Arabian Sea, pun firmly attended.

I would love to see F 16 Block 72s and Vs armed with AIM 120Ds over Typhoon anyday

 

[waz]

I would love to see F 16 Block 72s and Vs armed with AIM 120Ds over Typhoon anyday

I'd like to see that as well, but I prefer the Typhoon. Pakistan should diversify.

 

[denel]

Paa also picked up quite a few vc-1 ie m-113 from Italy may be now vc-2

Again if they can lay their hands on M339; but that is similar to K8 overall.

I'd like to see that as well, but I prefer the Typhoon. Pakistan should diversify.

Frankly if they can get hands of AMX platform it is right smack in the middle of the pack or even MB339 - We operated a fleet of MB329+Impalas Mk1/2 (approx 240+); amazing aircraft - they would take beating upon beating and took most the brunt of the donkey work in angola flying low down to 12m-15m.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Again if they can lay their hands on M339; but that is similar to K8 overall.

Frankly if they can get hands of AMX platform it is right smack in the middle of the pack or even MB339 - We operated a fleet of MB329+Impalas Mk1/2 (approx 240+); amazing aircraft - they would take beating upon beating and took most the brunt of the donkey work in angola flying low down to 12m-15m.

Interesting story about the AMX... It basically came both too late and too early for the PAF's CAS requirements.

So, in the 1970s, the PAF was looking for a ground attack jet to form a major chunk of its fleet. It had selected the A-7, but that fell through. However, in the 1980s the ground attack requirement was revised to the lighter A-5. But had the AMX been a factor in the late 1970s, we might have picked that instead.

Then again post-9/11, the PAF was undertaking a lot of CAS missions for COIN/CT. The AMX would have been the ideal platform, but it was out of production by that point.

 

[SABRE]

Interesting story about the AMX... It basically came both too late and too early for the PAF's CAS requirements.

So, in the 1970s, the PAF was looking for a ground attack jet to form a major chunk of its fleet. It had selected the A-7, but that fell through. However, in the 1980s the ground attack requirement was revised to the lighter A-5. But had the AMX been a factor in the late 1970s, we might have picked that instead.

Then again post-9/11, the PAF was undertaking a lot of CAS missions for COIN/CT. The AMX would have been the ideal platform, but it was out of production by that point.

Yes, in 1976 U.S. put breaks on the proposed sale of A-7 Corsair in fear that it could be used for nuclear delivery. A year later AMX requirement was issued by the Italian Air Force. May be Pakistan should have reviewed and joined the programme.

 

[Quwa]

Yes, in 1976 U.S. put breaks on the proposed sale of A-7 Corsair in fear that it could be used for nuclear delivery. A year later AMX requirement was issued by the Italian Air Force. May be Pakistan should have reviewed and joined the programme.

It was a weird shift. The A-7 was a heavier attacker than the AMX. The PAF wanted to use the A-7s for both CAS and deep strike, but the AMX was CAS focused. Then we went for the A-5, which was even lighter than the AMX, but then again, we also settled on the F-16s to do everything (the roadmap had planned for a very large fleet, much like the path Turkey, Egypt, Taiwan, etc took).

Had the AMX flown a decade later, it would've likely capitalized on the COIN/CT market.

 

[SABRE]

It was a weird shift. The A-7 was a heavier attacker than the AMX. The PAF wanted to use the A-7s for both CAS and deep strike, but the AMX was CAS focused. Then we went for the A-5, which was even lighter than the AMX, but then again, we also settled on the F-16s to do everything (the roadmap had planned for a very large fleet, much like the path Turkey, Egypt, Taiwan, etc took).

Had the AMX flown a decade later, it would've likely capitalized on the COIN/CT market.

It is quite interesting. Pakistan was actively pursuing nuclear weapons by 1976 but seemingly nothing concrete on acquiring a nuclear delivery option. Seeing that ZA Bhutto was someone who always maintained a strategic foresight he would have had pushed for it early on, regardless of the pace and eventual outcome of the nuclear weapons programme. Though, there are some indications that he had issued directives for missile programme in 1974 he would still have aimed at acquiring a reliable stopgap option. If the assumption holds true, then A-7 might have been just that. But once the option fell through there is no significant movement in that direction. Perhaps, the military being conservative and U.S. pressure on Pakistan forced Zia Ul Haq to not pursue delivery option at the time or, perhaps, PAF had by now shifted focus to Mirage-III for a nuclear bomb delivery?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It is quite interesting. Pakistan was actively pursuing nuclear weapons by 1976 but seemingly nothing concrete on acquiring a nuclear delivery option. Seeing that ZA Bhutto was someone who always maintained a strategic foresight he would have had pushed for it early on, regardless of the pace and eventual outcome of the nuclear weapons programme. Though, there are some indications that he had issued directives for missile programme in 1974 he would still have aimed at acquiring a reliable stopgap option. If the assumption holds true, then A-7 might have been just that. But once the option fell through there is no significant movement in that direction. Perhaps, the military being conservative and U.S. pressure on Pakistan forced Zia Ul Haq to not pursue delivery option at the time or, perhaps, PAF had by now shifted focus to Mirage-III for a nuclear bomb delivery?

The PAF earmarked either the A-7 or the Jaguar (even after India selected it), and after the A-7 fell through, the Jaguar was deemed too expensive. I think they dropped the idea by the 1980s as a missile program was indeed underway (and that too across three different potential sources: SUPARCO, China, and North Korea).

Ironically, the need for an attack fighter returned, but for conventional deterrence. To do what it did for Swift Retort, the PAF used a lot of resources. Not only that, but in a full-scale war, the PAF would need replicate that capability a few times over within a short span of time. It's not doable when the first priority of your multirole assets (F-16 and JF-17) is to defend (so coping with downtime between sorties is an issue).

The PAF tried getting a suitable platform for this job from abroad, but it seems it got walled off at every turn for one reason or another. So, cue: Project Azm, the current ASR of which is twin-engine with supercruising. Basically, what they planned for with the A-7 is now coming back in a way via the FGFA.

 

[MIRauf]

IMHO, If ZAB hadn't gotten over thrown, PAF would have ended up with F-1, CAS as secondary role.

In response to base being so close to populated areas: There is still vast open swath of land in Baluchistan for a Super Air Base. Heck, base like that could be turned into Space City, Pakistan's "Cape Canaveral," close if not right of the Arabian Sea.

 

[Quwa]

IMHO, If ZAB hadn't gotten over thrown, PAF would have ended up with F-1, CAS as secondary role.

In response to base being so close to populated areas: There is still vast open swath of land in Baluchistan for a Super Air Base. Heck, base like that could be turned into Space City, Pakistan's "Cape Canaveral," close if not right of the Arabian Sea.

If not for the US switching gears on the F-16, I think we would've gone for the M2K and Mirage 3NG, the latter as a lower cost multi-role option to augment the much higher cost M2K.

 

[mingle]

IMHO, If ZAB hadn't gotten over thrown, PAF would have ended up with F-1, CAS as secondary role.

In response to base being so close to populated areas: There is still vast open swath of land in Baluchistan for a Super Air Base. Heck, base like that could be turned into Space City, Pakistan's "Cape Canaveral," close if not right of the Arabian Sea.

It's about time look at eygpt building bases and military city in Sinai area we need to build super base along small sister bases CPEC, Afghanistan and Iran plus Gulf would be nice

 

[jupiter2007]

We should buy the required technology from Italy for JF-17 block3/4 and AZM project/s.

We should be working with China, Turkey, Italy and France to acquire the technology for PAF, PN and PA projects.