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Italian marines case: Envoy can be sent to jail, says Harish Salve

what impact the heat is going to have and is it going to have some favoured result ?

I'm not really sure. Will the Italian ambassador be arrested? Probably not (I still could be wrong). Will the marines be brought back? Not really. This is a lose-lose for everyone concerned. The Italians have destroyed their reputation in India, probably irredeemably, something that is going to do them years & years of damage (wrt economic interests). The GoI will take much flak over this as will the Indian SC. This is a disaster for all concerned.
 
Best thing, Angry CJO said, "What do they think we are" ? :omghaha:

He has reasons to be angry. It isn't just what happened on the Voting travel issue. Even before that these idiots paid out money to the fisherman's family and inserted the clause that they will not take the issue in a higher court in a contract. That prompted SC to ask, are we so backward that we will allow blood money to be given in return for lives lost?
 
He has reasons to be angry. It isn't just what happened on the Voting travel issue. Even before that these idiots paid out money to the fisherman's family and inserted the clause that they will not take the issue in a higher court in a contract. That prompted SC to ask, are we so backward that we will allow blood money to be given in return for lives lost?
He spanked the lawyer too. CJI said "Are you that naive "
 
So does he enjoy the right under Vienna Convention ?


Does he mean if the envoy enjoys immunity under Vienna convention then India would follow it ?

There are two aspects to diplomatic immunity. One, that a diplomat cannot be prosecuted or arrested by the host government for any crime he commits IN THE COURSE OF DISCHARGING HIS DUTY AS A DIPLOMAT. In any other criminal case, like say a diplomat getting drunk and shooting people to death in his personal capacity, immunity will be waived by both countries, and he will be arrested. (Some clueless trolls sporting American flags were boasting earlier that even if the diplomat shoots all the judges of the supreme court, he still has immunity, and that if his immunity is violated, America will nuke India and so on. Despite such idiots and their laughable misunderstandings, there is much more to diplomatic immunity than meets the eye, and isn't simply a law that a diplomat can do what he wants.)

Now the second aspect, which is more relevant to this particular case, is this. All serving diplomats are under the jurisdiction of their home country only, and the host country's courts have no jurisdiction over them, and therefore they are free to do any contempt of court they want, because they don't come under the jurisdiction of the courts. However, when the Italian diplomat personally came to the supreme court and signed an affidavit, he was submitting to the authority of the supreme court. If not, he had no business visiting an Indian court. So once he submits a signed affidavit in a court, he cannot argue that the court had no jurisdiction over him. This is strictly between the court and the ambassador - not between India and Italy, or the Govt of India and the Govt of Italy. The supreme court is only bound by Indian laws, and not by international laws or Vienna conventions TO A PERSON UNDER ITS jurisdiction. The Italian ambassador came under its jurisdiction by his own voluntary act. The SC is well within its jurisdiction now to initiate contempt proceedings against him. That is the will of the supreme court - heck, it is the will of even the lawyer who was arguing for the marines', as the title of the thread says. Vienna conventions and international laws apply to the government an armed forces, but not to an Indian court - if anybody is under the jurisdiction of the court, he will be tried according to Indian law. Diplomats are NOT under the jurisdiction of the suoreme court, unless they walk into the court and sign an affidavit under oath to the court. Which is what this idiot did.
 
There are two aspects to diplomatic immunity. One, that a diplomat cannot be prosecuted or arrested by the host government for any crime he commits IN THE COURSE OF DISCHARGING HIS DUTY AS A DIPLOMAT. In any other criminal case, like say a diplomat getting drunk and shooting people to death in his personal capacity, immunity will be waived by both countries, and he will be arrested. (Some clueless trolls sporting American flags were boasting earlier that even if the diplomat shoots all the judges of the supreme court, he still has immunity, and that if his immunity is violated, America will nuke India and so on. Despite such idiots and their laughable misunderstandings, there is much more to diplomatic immunity than meets the eye, and isn't simply a law that a diplomat can do what he wants.)

Now the second aspect, which is more relevant to this particular case, is this. All serving diplomats are under the jurisdiction of their home country only, and the host country's courts have no jurisdiction over them, and therefore they are free to do any contempt of court they want, because they don't come under the jurisdiction of the courts. However, when the Italian diplomat personally came to the supreme court and signed an affidavit, he was submitting to the authority of the supreme court. If not, he had no business visiting an Indian court. So once he submits a signed affidavit in a court, he cannot argue that the court had no jurisdiction over him. This is strictly between the court and the ambassador - not between India and Italy, or the Govt of India and the Govt of Italy. The supreme court is only bound by Indian laws, and not by international laws or Vienna conventions TO A PERSON UNDER ITS jurisdiction. The Italian ambassador came under its jurisdiction by his own voluntary act. The SC is well within its jurisdiction now to initiate contempt proceedings against him. That is the will of the supreme court - heck, it is the will of even the lawyer who was arguing for the marines', as the title of the thread says. Vienna conventions and international laws apply to the government an armed forces, but not to an Indian court - if anybody is under the jurisdiction of the court, he will be tried according to Indian law. Diplomats are NOT under the jurisdiction of the suoreme court, unless they walk into the court and sign an affidavit under oath to the court. Which is what this idiot did.
Thanks for the excellent explanation...
In India many examples stand that the GOI has no say in the judiciary..

GoI stuck an axe to its leg, now the issue may be international in nature, it no more is in that realm of international politics anymore...
 
There are two aspects to diplomatic immunity. One, that a diplomat cannot be prosecuted or arrested by the host government for any crime he commits IN THE COURSE OF DISCHARGING HIS DUTY AS A DIPLOMAT. In any other criminal case, like say a diplomat getting drunk and shooting people to death in his personal capacity, immunity will be waived by both countries, and he will be arrested. (Some clueless trolls sporting American flags were boasting earlier that even if the diplomat shoots all the judges of the supreme court, he still has immunity, and that if his immunity is violated, America will nuke India and so on. Despite such idiots and their laughable misunderstandings, there is much more to diplomatic immunity than meets the eye, and isn't simply a law that a diplomat can do what he wants.)

Now the second aspect, which is more relevant to this particular case, is this. All serving diplomats are under the jurisdiction of their home country only, and the host country's courts have no jurisdiction over them, and therefore they are free to do any contempt of court they want, because they don't come under the jurisdiction of the courts. However, when the Italian diplomat personally came to the supreme court and signed an affidavit, he was submitting to the authority of the supreme court. If not, he had no business visiting an Indian court. So once he submits a signed affidavit in a court, he cannot argue that the court had no jurisdiction over him. This is strictly between the court and the ambassador - not between India and Italy, or the Govt of India and the Govt of Italy. The supreme court is only bound by Indian laws, and not by international laws or Vienna conventions TO A PERSON UNDER ITS jurisdiction. The Italian ambassador came under its jurisdiction by his own voluntary act. The SC is well within its jurisdiction now to initiate contempt proceedings against him. That is the will of the supreme court - heck, it is the will of even the lawyer who was arguing for the marines', as the title of the thread says. Vienna conventions and international laws apply to the government an armed forces, but not to an Indian court - if anybody is under the jurisdiction of the court, he will be tried according to Indian law. Diplomats are NOT under the jurisdiction of the suoreme court, unless they walk into the court and sign an affidavit under oath to the court. Which is what this idiot did.

+
SC says can't trust Italian envoy, he has no diplomatic immunity - Hindustan Times
 
shut up, you moron... look your business....
@Oscar, @WebMaster, @Nuclearpark.... this guy making so much trolling in this thread... take care of him.

You still think the Indian court is competent? They accepted the diplomat's word knowing full well of his diplomatic immunity and his exemption of the court's jurisdiction. They were stupid and ignorant of the laws. Then they unilaterally declared the diplomat has no diplomatic immunity when things didn't go their way. That's beyond incompetent. They have no jurisdiction and no control over the Italian diplomat. They are just doing this as a coverup of their prior incompetency, but further embarrassed themselves. I am surprised Indians would tolerate such incompetent sitting on the high court. You deserve whatever misery they bring you.

You just can't handle the hard truth.
 
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No need for any troll fatwas, if you can't argue his points, keep quiet.
 
@nuclearpak..... So many Indian member regarding the issue stated our stance... still he keep insult our SC and Indian laws... Previously I remind about affidavit submitted by the Envoy to SC... still he trying to be smart... so what should we say to him?
 
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Now the second aspect, which is more relevant to this particular case, is this. All serving diplomats are under the jurisdiction of their home country only, and the host country's courts have no jurisdiction over them, and therefore they are free to do any contempt of court they want, because they don't come under the jurisdiction of the courts. However, when the Italian diplomat personally came to the supreme court and signed an affidavit, he was submitting to the authority of the supreme court. If not, he had no business visiting an Indian court. So once he submits a signed affidavit in a court, he cannot argue that the court had no jurisdiction over him. This is strictly between the court and the ambassador - not between India and Italy, or the Govt of India and the Govt of Italy. The supreme court is only bound by Indian laws, and not by international laws or Vienna conventions TO A PERSON UNDER ITS jurisdiction. The Italian ambassador came under its jurisdiction by his own voluntary act. The SC is well within its jurisdiction now to initiate contempt proceedings against him. That is the will of the supreme court - heck, it is the will of even the lawyer who was arguing for the marines', as the title of the thread says. Vienna conventions and international laws apply to the government an armed forces, but not to an Indian court - if anybody is under the jurisdiction of the court, he will be tried according to Indian law. Diplomats are NOT under the jurisdiction of the suoreme court, unless they walk into the court and sign an affidavit under oath to the court. Which is what this idiot did.

You are wrong. International treaties trump local laws. That's what you signed up when you government ratified the treaties. The SC is part of the Indian government and is not exempt from international treaties. The Italian diplomat was performing his normal duty when working on behalf of the two marines. When he was talking to the Indian SC, he was dealing with the Indian government. He was performing his normal duty as a diplomat. Whatever he does, he has diplomatic immunity. Whatever papers he signed in court are worth as much as toilet papers. For the SC not understanding these basic facts are beyond incompetent.

The incompetency of the SC is bringing India one step closer to war. India being nuked at the end is not out of the question.
 
@nuclearpak..... So many Indian member regarding the issue stated our stance... still he keep insult our SC and Indian laws... Previously I remind about affidavit submitted by the Envoy to SC... still he trying to be smart... so what should we say to him?

The insults and name calling has been taken care of, he will do it no more.

You just avoid giving troll fatwas, listen to his opinion, and respond in a mannerly way.
 
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No need for any troll fatwas, if you can't argue his points, keep quiet.

The troll fatwas came because we have been repeatedly complaining against his troll posts. Do you really want us to argue his "points" of USA nuking us on this issue, or NATO destroying India if we arrest the ambassador and so on? Please don't try to legitimize or dignify his flame comments by pretending that he is presenting us with "point" and "facts" that need to be discussed and argued. The last post of his on this page was in fact the highest quality post he has made so far.

If you check out his posting history, you will find him name calling Indians (and no other worth in the post itself) in every single post, without exception. If you had deleted some of those posts and put an end to that behavior with the same diligence that you have deleted the "fatwas" and cautioned Indians against fatwas, then these fatwas would not have come in the first place.

Yes yes I know it is your forum and your rules. I am pointing this out because I prefer to see a proper discussion on the topic here without "arguing" with such brilliant "points" as his.
 
The insults and name calling has been taken care of, he will do it no more.

You just avoid giving troll fatwas, listen to his opinion, and respond in a mannerly way.


I did tried to explain very well, that is why explained the situation over here.... some of them saying NATO should nuke India , this and that... what kinda ranting is this? there is a limit for trolling too...

anyways will watch out my response ....
 
The insults and name calling has been taken care of, he will do it no more.

You just avoid giving troll fatwas, listen to his opinion, and respond in a mannerly way.

Immediately before your post, he has again threatened India with nuclear war. Would you really listen patiently to such "opinions" and respond in a mannerly way, when he has been doing this for the past few days, and will simply retort to you with another name calling? For heavens' sake, please pause and take a look at the poster you are trying to defend.

I am not bringing this up because his juvenile behavior scares me or makes me cringe - I am doing so in the interest of having a proper discourse on the topic at hand.
 

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