Italian marines case: Envoy can be sent to jail, says Harish Salve

[Guynextdoor2]

man this is going to be awesome , lets see

i have a rough idea how the court case will eventually proceed

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

do we need another thread on the same subject ?

 

[illusion8]

EU is not keen to interfere and wants the matter to be resolved bilaterally - no one else have made any comments - so it's the Indian courts who can make the call and decide on how to proceed.

 

[Mech]

If the marines do return by the 22nd, will the "contempt of court" still be in play ?

 

[danger007]

If the marines do return by the 22nd, will the "contempt of court" still be in play ?

No, it won't be.... Even though they didn't return... we can't do any thing with the Ambassador... I highly doubt the chances taking the risky step... But there will chance as he submitted affidavit to the Apex..

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/justice-has-been-done-italian-marine-s-mother-to-ndtv-343592

what a moron mother she is ....

 

[fast]

and you need to take those prescribed medicines for mental insanity..that very man actually was fighting cases for Italian Govt..now tell me,is Italy too fool to select an incompetent twit as a lawyer??

That's probably India has nothing better to offer than an incompetent twit.

 

[Solomon2]

Waiving diplomatic immunity requires the explicit agreement of both governments. An ipso facto arrangement is insufficient, imo, as it can lead to abuse and misunderstanding.

I can't see how the ambassador can both remain as his country's top representative AND be jailed and prosecuted by India; he could only be jailed once his home country removed him AND waived immunity. (Even if his nation is conquered by another the rootless ambassador may still retain his rank; this is what happened in the U.S. after the Soviets conquered the Baltic republics. One of these lived to see his country liberated a half-century later.)

Better to stick to the normal procedures of expelling the ambassador as persona non grata and keeping any bail that had been paid - demanding the full amount, too, if only a deposit had been made on the bail, as is customary in the U.S.

 

[mehboobkz]

Better to stick to the normal procedures of expelling the ambassador as persona non grata and keeping any bail that had been paid - demanding the full amount, too, if only a deposit had been made on the bail, as is customary in the U.S.

It seems like you are not abreast of current affairs, at least in this case. There is no monetary bail here. Just a solemn undertaking in the form of affidavit by the Italian ambassador to Supreme court of India.

 

[Solomon2]

It seems like you are not abreast of current affairs, at least in this case. There is no monetary bail here. Just a solemn undertaking in the form of affidavit by the Italian ambassador to Supreme court of India.

No waiver of immunity was even implied, then: the ambassador simply and solemnly affirmed an untruth. You can blame the Italian government for that, but the only thing India can do to the ambassador himself is expel him.

There have been one or two civil and criminal cases in the U.S. against diplomats or another nation's property. In the criminal case I know of criminal immunity was removed from a drunken diplomat who killed a little girl by his home government; in the civil case the Russian gov't waived sovereign immunity to secure a deal with a private business - and when the Russians failed to pay up they spent years moving saleable assets around the U.S., from furniture to fighter jets, to make sure these weren't seized by court order. This case doesn't fall into either category.

 

[Bang Galore]

No waiver of immunity was even implied, then: the ambassador simply and solemnly affirmed an untruth. You can blame the Italian government for that, but the only thing India can do to the ambassador himself is expel him.

..... This case doesn't fall into either category.

That would depend on interpretation. Even other western embassies are not sure about the Italian ambassador's position after he gave an undertaking in the Supreme Court.

Article 32 of the Vienna Convention makes it clear that a diplomat ceases to be eligible for diplomatic immunity from criminal and civil jurisdiction of the host country after he initiates a proceeding in the court of law

How this is interpreted is moot.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Diplomatic immunity...anyone??????

If someone has a immunity from prosecution, then how the courts can accept his undertaking knowing full well that he can not be prosecuted even if he defaults on his promise? A real pickle. Either he loses his immunity the moment he submits to Indian courts or the hearing Judge is ignorant to existing laws that deals with international diplomats.

 

[jbond197]

This whole act is a setup by Congress to free Italian marines. Congress has special affiliations and family relations with Italians because of which they in the past let go Quattrocchi and now the Italian marines.. Someone tell me, who lets criminals go on vacation? That is unbelievable but anything possible for these powerful goons sitting at the center..

Trust me there is nothing Indian govt can do now.. Arresting an envoy is going to be a big diplomatic blunder.. Anyways, these talks are just plain talks and govt has to say these things seeing the reactions on the ground..They are now trying to act tough as this thing could impact their vote share in 2014.. I have only one word for them and that is - Losers!!

If someone has a immunity from prosecution, then how the courts can accept his undertaking knowing full well that he can not be prosecuted even if he defaults on his promise? A real pickle. Either he loses his immunity the moment he submits to Indian courts or the hearing Judge is ignorant to existing laws that deals with international diplomats.

Judiciary is under govt control and Judge appointments are done by Law ministry so they have to listen/act on the orders coming from their bosses!!

 

[Bang Galore]

This whole act is a setup by Congress to free Italian marines. Congress has special affiliations and family relations with Italians and they in the past let go Quattrocchi and not the Italian marines.. Someone tell me, who lets criminals go on vacation? That is unbelievable but anything possible for this powerful goons sitting with power in the center..

What criminals? They had no chargesheet even against them (the SC had quashed the chargesheet filed in Kerala). Not as simple as most people think.

 

[jbond197]

What criminals? They had no chargesheet even against them (the SC had quashed the chargesheet filed in Kerala). Not as simple as most people think.

Why was the chargesheet quashed? They shot two Indians in Indian waters and there were plenty of proofs to support the facts!!

Quashing of charge sheet seems to be part of the whole act!!

 

[JanjaWeed]

Judiciary is under govt control and Judge appointments are done by Law ministry so they have to listen/act on the orders coming from their bosses!!

Sounds right. Why would the courts allow Italians to go back knowing full well that Italian laws permit their nationals vote via post from a foreign country. Indian govt too failed to appraise the court with the above fact & block Italians exit.

Only goes to show that this is just a stage managed drama played by everyone involved as per pre-written script.

& Yes.. Judges are poodles to their political masters. They are always on the look out for post retirement govt jobs. Otherwise you will not have 18 out of the total 21 judges retired after 2008 are now in various government panels.

Unless you do away with these post retirement govt jobs for bureaucrats & judges, system will never absolve itself of corruption.