Italian envoy cannot leave India

[Mritunjaya]

Strictly from a personal standpoint, I really don't understand the hype surrounding this particular case. Indian fisherman routinely find themselves at the receiving end in waters adjoining Sri Lanka and Pakistan. They are shot at/killed and are imprisoned without any legal proceedings or contact with their families. Even sailors in the Merchant Navy have been taken hostage by Somali pirates on numerous occasions. Isn't it a matter of national shame when a Pakistani(and not our government, NGOs or citizens) steps up to rescue our sailors? Is our national pride challenged solely in the case of the perpetrators being Westerners? Isn't that reverse racism?

With the families of the victims and the boat owner duly compensated, this episode already has a better prognosis than the vast majority of cases involving Indian fishermen. Anything beyond this outcome is a bonus but I wouldn't hold my breath for it. This might be hard to take in but it is merely a neutral observation.

Indian fishermen are not routinely fired upon and killed even by Sri Lankan/Pakistani marines. They are capture and imprisoned for reasons of entering waters of a sovereign nation without valid visa/permission. The Two cases are entirely different.

Italy govt. as a sovereign nation gave a written agreement to another sovereign nation, India and renegaded on that agreement.

How would pakistan react if India renegaded on the Indus water treaty ? (which I think we should) ....its a breach of international agreement and questions Italy's credibility for India and rest of the world.

The victims were compensated, but that was a private arrangement between the victims family and the people who compensated them. GoI had no role to play in that. Gets your facts straight.

 

[nair]

There is already one thread running on this issue.....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/central-south-asia/240080-italian-envoy-cannot-leave-india.html

 

[mehboobkz]

Today it was two Italians under trials who were sent for Christmas holiday, despite being accused of homicide in India, knowing fully well that there are 129 Indian people in Italian jails, and Italy did not bother to disclose India their names, despite the request of Indian authorities. This is stupid from India.

But the matter does not end here. As i see it here, the people on this PDF dont want India to retaliate because of some moot business relations reason with Italians. The question is not how fair it is, but how unfair it is from the Indian point of view to be always found at the receiving end and the perpetrators who just walk away with impunity.

No wonder India does not have self respect in International scenes of such sorts.
Remember how Rajiv Gandhi was beaten with rifle during the Sri Lanka?
What did India do?
Nothing.
Shame.

 

[Mritunjaya]

Today it was two Italians under trials who were sent for Christmas holiday, despite being accused of homicide in India, knowing fully well that there are 129 Indian people in Italian jails, and Italy did not bother to disclose India their names, despite the request of Indian authorities. This is stupid from India.

But the matter does not end here. As i see it here, the people on this PDF dont want India to retaliate because of some moot business relations reason with Italians. The question is not how fair it is, but how unfair it is from the Indian point of view to be always found at the receiving end and the perpetrators who just walk away with impunity.

No wonder India does not have self respect in International scenes of such sorts.
Remember how Rajiv Gandhi was beaten with rifle during the Sri Lanka?
What did India do?
Nothing.
Shame.

Please do not blame India .....if you want to blame anyone ...blame the congress party that has sold its own Mother (India) for money.

 

[cyphercide]

Are you saying Indian laws were not violated?

What? Where did you get that from? I was questioning the selective amnesia of the Indian government(and to some extent, of Indians in general) in handling cases of such nature.

It's not racism: it's what I have been predicting for a long time.

As India rises, and its nationalism rises, it will seek validation of its newfound power by head-butting ever bigger opponents.

To be fair, that's human nature: all rising countries will do this.

The charge of racism was for literary effect to highlight the difference of treatment and wasn't meant to be construed as an actual conclusion.

It's quite simple. India went all out on the legal process because it presumed Italy to play by the rules. It presumed wrong. The issue has now essentially evolved into a political quagmire that could very well effect forthcoming elections. So we can expect the UPA government to flex muscles in the coming days in order to save its own skin. This has nothing to do with global power wrangling or the like at the moment.

 

[ChinaToday]

GOI is cracking up

 

[narcon]

Please do not blame India .....if you want to blame anyone ...blame the congress party that has sold its own Mother (India) for money.

History will say it was india, who knows what will happen of congress, or how it would end up tomorrow.
There was reference in the news of such incident in foreign newspaper, which referred Indian prime minister attacked and not congress party ,s prime minister. It is always india whose image suffers and not congress in these intra national incidents.

 

[mehboobkz]

What? Where did you get that from? I was questioning the selective amnesia of the Indian government(and to some extent, of Indians in general) in handling cases of such nature.

Once you agree that Indian laws are/were violated, then the next line of reasoning, or the next course of action says that those perpetrators should be punished by Indian laws without reservations, right?

 

[Bang Galore]

There is something called TIT for TAT or equivelant retaliation.
If Italy can break the international laws against India, why should india be silent?
Ambassador can be expelled.

I agree & that is what we must do.

 

[Bang Galore]

So if NM gets elected as PM tomorrow, and UK/US detains and imprisons him provided there is a UNSC declaration as a globally wanted Human rights violator, then should we allow the International laws to be suppressed for him ? If I was someone with integrity to uphold International Laws at any cost, then i would most definitely give it precedence. But if my Leader is more important than the Law, then......

It is not about any UNSC declaration which would be an international call, just that many European countries & the U.S. allow for people to bring cases against foreign national in their domestic courts. It is unlikely that any PM will be so targeted, except for the purpose of embarrassment but many mid level officials could be easily targeted in that manner. What protects them now is the principle of international law, i.e. the Geneva convention superceding domestic laws. That could be called to question because the Indian government itself would have set a different precedence.

 

[cyphercide]

Indian fishermen are not routinely fired upon and killed even by Sri Lankan/Pakistani marines. They are capture and imprisoned for reasons of entering waters of a sovereign nation without valid visa/permission. The Two cases are entirely different.

Italy govt. as a sovereign nation gave a written agreement to another sovereign nation, India and renegaded on that agreement.

How would pakistan react if India renegaded on the Indus water treaty ? (which I think we should) ....its a breach of international agreement and questions Italy's credibility for India and rest of the world.

The victims were compensated, but that was a private arrangement between the victims family and the people who compensated them. GoI had no role to play in that. Gets your facts straight.

Get my facts straight? I think you need to google the figures of the Indian fishermen killed and detained without trial in both nations. How exactly did you come to the conclusion that Indian fishermen are the ones encroaching on foreign waters? Any binding legal report or judgement to that effect?

Once you agree that Indian laws are/were violated, then the next line of reasoning, or the next course of action says that those perpetrators should be punished by Indian laws without reservations, right?

I think you might have taken my previous post in the wrong context. The question I tried to convey was;
Why isn't the majority of the cases involving Indian fishermen seen is the same prominence as this one is? I wasn't advocating for either the release or dropping legal charges against the Italian marines.

 

[Ayush]

nice show going on.

 

[ChinaToday]

Let me tell you of an incident to the SupaPowa Chinese that happened in the Kosovo war. The CIA accidentally/deliberately which is debatable gave the coordinates of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade for NATO to bomb and in return all they got were a few million dollars in chump change and a token apology. Did the SupaPowa return the favour ? No sirree, it is still licking its wounds and buying the debt of the bomber.

let me get this into your dumb head , first it was in a war zone , second we were at fault by allowing Serbians gathering intelligence in the embassy

Truth about "mistake" bombing of Chinese embassy

The memoir is reported to say that Jiang acceded to a personal plea from Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian leader, to shelter key military intelligence personnel, and that 14 Serbs and three Chinese citizens died there when US bombers struck

The magazine claimed the Chinese were already sending secret supplies of surface-to-air missiles to the former Yugoslavia through Libya. "When the air campaign began, Yugoslavia's defence ministry, information department and police headquarters were all destroyed by NATO bombs," it said, quoting the memoir.

"Slobodan Milosevic once again asked Jiang to allow core departments of military intelligence to take refuge in the Chinese embassy basement so as to keep operating." The Chinese leader agreed

As the NATO bombing intensified, the Chinese foreign ministry asked Jiang if it could withdraw its staff from Belgrade, but he ordered them to stay put as a sign of solidarity with Milosevic, the memoir admits

Truth about "mistake" bombing of Chinese embassy - NYPOST.com

 

[john.mccainn]

is that mean India is kidnapping Italians ambassador ?

 

[Srinivas]

If India attacked Italy as per the news paper, then Italy has done mischief and broke the trust of the relations between India and Italy.

History will say it was india, who knows what will happen of congress, or how it would end up tomorrow.
There was reference in the news of such incident in foreign newspaper, which referred Indian prime minister attacked and not congress party ,s prime minister. It is always india whose image suffers and not congress in these intra national incidents.