Italian envoy cannot leave India

[Agnostic_Indian]

Tweet by Dr. Subramanian Swamy "Those Italians who are wanted in India go away, and those who we want to go away, stay and stick here,"

although I don't share the wish, that was a witty comment.

 

[Jackdaws]

To me he claimed that he teaches finance at Columbia University, New York.

Funny - to me he claimed he was Nelson Mandela

 

[Mritunjaya]

Italian Marines to come back, bribe authorities, and go back

India and Italy have worked out a mutually beneficial solution to the brewing diplomatic trouble between the two countries owing to Italy’s refusal to send its marines back to India for court trials.

As part of the solution, Italian marines will come back to India, get locked in jail for a couple of weeks, then pay bribe to jail authorities, and escape back to Italy after paying further bribes to concerned authorities like passport officers, security officers, et al.

“This way, the case of runaway Italian marines will become a corruption case rather than a diplomatic row, and in India, corruption cases are no more a cause of concern,” said a high-placed source in the Government of India.

“Do you even remember which is the latest scam? I’m sure you have stopped counting,” the source correctly claimed.

“Also, IPL will start in a few weeks, so we hope that Italian Marines’ second escape won’t even make news,” the source added.
The source claimed that this plan was finalized after the Italian ambassador was summoned by the External Affairs Ministry yesterday. Apparently, Italians immediately agreed to the proposal and will be sending their marines back to India after a week or so.

“Italy a long experience in bribing Indian authorities – from Bofors to the latest VVIP chopper scam – and they are confident that they could successfully carry out another bribing operation to get the marines back,” the source explained why Italians agreed for a “compromise”.

When asked why Italy agreed to taking this middle path even though their middle finger to India wouldn’t have caused them much harm, the source claimed, rather shockingly, that Italy was very afraid of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s warning of “consequences” if Italian marines didn’t return to India.

Then the source started laughing. “Just kidding,” the source came back to telling the truth, “We have no idea. Maybe Italy was bribed to bribe us back.”

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I remember you claiming to be a professor or lecturer in some college. --

Are the standards in US colleges so low that they have to scrape from the absolute bottom ?

LOL; do you believe everything that you read on the internet, more so what you read on PDF?

There far more Cab-Drivers, News-Stand attendants and Convenience-Store salesmen in NYC from the region than the blokes will want to admit.

 

[Spring Onion]

Italy should thank its stars it has not planned a hockey series with India . It would have been the toughest stand India would have taken against it by cancelling it

 

[Zarvan]

That's more like it- hold accountability

The Supreme Court has said the Italian Ambassador Daniele Mancini cannot leave the country for now, a consequence of Italy's refusal to return two marines to face trial in India.

The judges have also asked the Italian government to furnish an explanation for reneging on its assurance that the naval officers would be sent back.

The Ambassador, who had given the court a written guarantee that the marines would come back to Delhi by March 22, has to share his response by Monday.

Earlier this week, Italy informed India that despite its guarantees, the naval officers would not be sent back. The Supreme Court had allowed them four weeks at home to celebrate Easter and vote in the national election.

The Prime Minister yesterday warned that "there will be consequences" if Italy does not respect its commitment to the Supreme Court. Before it decides what those consequence might be, the government reportedly wants to wait till March 22, the deadline set by the Supreme Court for the return of the marines. (Read: PM's statement in Parliament)

Amid reports that the government may retaliate by expelling him, Mr Mancini asserted yesterday, "I will not leave this country till a competent authority makes me a persona non grata."

Italy says that its decision was taken after India ignored its written offer for diplomatic negotiations, and because New Delhi does not have jurisdiction over the case. (Read: Will search for an acceptable solution, Italian officials tell NDTV)

The marines were guarding an Italian tanker off the Kochi coast in February last year when they say they mistook two fishermen for pirates, and shot them.

Italy claims the shooting took place in international waters; India disagrees.

These kind of actions will be disastrous for India Sir Diplomats can't be stopped that is the rule in the world India can face hell of trouble from EU by doing these kind of actions

 

[INDIAISM]

These kind of actions will be disastrous for India Sir Diplomats can't be stopped that is the rule in the world India can face hell of trouble from EU by doing these kind of actions

Diplomats have immunity till they don't make themselves party in the case...And by becoming the one of the party in this case he opened himself up to the jurisdiction of Supreme Court....

 

[Zarvan]

Diplomats have immunity till they don't make themselves party in the case...And by becoming the one of the party in this case he opened himself up to the jurisdiction of Supreme Court....

No Sir they can't be tried Sir that is the international law Sir and if you will try to mess with Europe on this you are inviting huge amount of trouble on you

 

[Guynextdoor2]

No Sir they can't be tried Sir that is the international law Sir and if you will try to mess with Europe on this you are inviting huge amount of trouble on you

Oh...poor we...we'll handle our own trouble in our own bumbling ways thank you.

 

[DroneAcharya]

Something i read which explains why the Supreme Court was right in "restraining" the ambassador from leaving India.

Facts:

1. The MV Enrica Lexie was sailing from Singapore to Egypt with a crew of 34, including six Italian marines who were protecting the ship. The Indian fishing boat, St. Antony, was returning with tuna from a fishing expedition.
   
2. The incident occurred at sea on Feb 15 at approx. 1630 IST. The Italian marines give one version, the Indian fishermen give another version - both are contradictory.
   
3. After incident, the Indian fishing boat rushes to shore, reports it to the coastal police at Neendakara, who passes on the info to the Coast Guard who launches a search mission.
   
4. The MV Enrica Lexie has meanwhile carried on sailing for almost two and half hours and covered a distance of 70 km from the location of the incident when it was intercepted by the Coast Guard. It did not report the incident either to the IMB piracy reporting centre or MRCC.
   
5. After the ship was intercepted and detained at Kochi port by the Coast Guard, an email was sent to the owner of the ship. No proof exists that a "piracy threat" was reported by the ship to any agencies (Indian, Italian or international) prior to this in the logs of either the ship or any of these agencies.

Legal position:

1. On the matter of jurisdiction, to reject an Indian trial - whilst Italy will need to show exclusive jurisdiction, India only needs to show that it also has jurisdiction.
   
2. Indian enforcement agencies claim the incident occurred within the Indian Contiguous Zone but the Italians say that it happened outside the contigous zone but still within India's Exclusive Economic Zone.
   
3. Even if we were for the sake of argument to assume that incident happened outside India's territory, if a crime is committed on an Indian vessel, India has jurisdiction. This is the law in almost every country - all planes and ships are considered to be part of the territory of the country in which they were registered. The fishermen were killed while they were inside an Indian boat.
   
4. Italians paid compensation to the relatives of the victims. But a crime of murder cannot be compounded by the relatives or any one for that matter. (S.320 of CrPC). It is legally impossible for the Indian government to decide not to prosecute a murder case.
   
5. Italian marines were released on bail initially on the basis of a bond by 2 Indian private citizens. But they had to stay within Kochi police station limits. Later, this was relaxed when the Italian embassy stood guarantee and the Italian Ambassador himself submitted a personal bond before the court (in addition to the 2 Indian citizens who have stood guarantee) - and they were allowed to go home for Christmas. They returned after their visit but once again, they sought to go home to vote. Additional guarantees were taken from the Italian embassy and the ambassador.
   
6. The stipulated period for their overseas visit has expired, but they have not returned. This means the bond conditions have been breached and the Ambassador and the two other Indian guarantors are now liable for prosecution in India.

 

[Bang Galore]

It is best not to do anything with the ambassador. While there can be a legal argument for revocation of immunity, it is still better not to ride roughshod over the Geneva conventions. It may come back to bite us later.

 

[nair]

NEW DELHI: Airports across the country have been alerted to prevent Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini from leaving the country.

The decision was taken by the Union home ministry a day after the Supreme Court restrained the Italian ambassador from leaving India without its permission, official sources said.

The apex court had taken exception to Italian government's refusal to send back two naval guards charged with the killing of two fishermen.

The two naval guards were allowed by the court to go to Italy to cast their vote in the elections there after the Italian ambassador had given an assurance to send them back.

Attorney general (AG) G E Vahanvati had brought the issue yesterday before the apex court, saying that "its a breach of undertaking given to the highest court of the land and the government is extremely concerned about it".

After hearing the AG's submission, the bench issued notices to the ambassador and the two naval guards and asked them to file their response by March 18.

The two naval guards were on board Italian vessel 'Enrica Lexie', when they shot dead two fishermen off the Kerala coast on February 15, last year.

Airports alerted to prevent Italian envoy from leaving country - The Times of India

 

[Developereo]

As part of the solution, Italian marines will come back to India, get locked in jail for a couple of weeks, then pay bribe to jail authorities, and escape back to Italy after paying further bribes to concerned authorities like passport officers, security officers, et al.

Does the deal include biryani to go?

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Believe it or not i'm with the Indians on this one. What the Italians did was outrageous and this is the chance for India to show herself to the world. Is India indeed a potential suppa power ? Or is India merely a banana republic and is still begging for crums from the white man ? This move is already a step in the right direction. And if those marines are not returned to India then i hope the Italian envoy can find a nice resting home in India !

 

[DroneAcharya]

It is best not to do anything with the ambassador. While there can be a legal argument for revocation of immunity, it is still better not to ride roughshod over the Geneva conventions. It may come back to bite us later.

One needs to put the entire picture into focus, the core at which are UNCLOS agreements and adherence of each sovereign nation to them without simply looking at the diplomatic blowback for India in the longer/shorter run. The Italians have simply run roughshod giving no afterthought on the possible repercussions. Now that the ball has been set rolling, International Jurisprudence of this case should be the arbiter and not the fallout.