It is time for Navy Air Arm to take over from PAF and start flying JF-17's

[ziaulislam]

Well, I am from Bangladesh but I thought I would just add a bit more anyways. I think before planning defense against IN ships, one has to consider the IN and IAF air component as well, who will be bringing in Brahmos and other such missiles. Air defense is most critical and the white elephant in the room.

JF-17s do not have meaningful operational range for meaningful air defense out in the maritime environment. One needs something like the Su-35.

Without meaningful air defense, your strike aircraft, ships, ports, etc will all be in imminent danger. Does PN have any AAW frigates? Didn't find any. Any medium sams on ships? I am sure these must be there just I don't know about it.

Just a thought - British Tornadoes / German ones are being retired. One could in theory use these as they would be ideal platforms for for air defense and strike out at sea. Would potentially be cost effective as well.

• meaning full is 300 km circle from karachi, i guess mirages 5 had that(far less range than thunder), now i dont know which thunders do you refer to though, because jf-17 has over 500+Km range in A2G configuration LHL mix i.e with 2 tones ammunition and 2 tone payload, with endurance of about 1-1.5 hour(vs max endurance of 3.5 hours with three fuel tanks) and we are not counting A2A refueling which can stretch to to max of 3.5 hour endurance which equal to most modern fighters even the flankers, there is desire to increase endurance in block 3
• and PN never had an issue in kargil war
• and if thunder prog can succeed in 1990s with CAC had no expertise why would azm fail now
• i dont know why i replied to you, generally i dont

Don't you think sir, if we want to keep our enemy away from our zone at 450 km or greater, than we have to acquire air craft carrier???

he would say we should acquire 3 carrier groups, than he would quote from a famous ex israeli PM..... , though Israel doesn't has a carrier or sig navy and doesnt face an enemy like india... infact is surrounded by allies, poorly trained arabs who never learned to fight under protection of ottomans and backed by USA the most power ful nation existed in modern history with largest resources in the whole world

 

[MiG-35-BD]

• meaning full is 300 km circle from karachi, i guess mirages 5 had that(far less range than thunder), now i dont know which thunders do you refer to though, because jf-17 has over 500+Km range in A2G configuration LHL mix i.e with 2 tones ammunition and 2 tone payload, with endurance of about 1-1.5 hour(vs max endurance of 3.5 hours with three fuel tanks) and we are not counting A2A refueling which can stretch to to max of 3.5 hour endurance which equal to most modern fighters even the flankers, there is desire to increase endurance in block 3
• and PN never had an issue in kargil war
• and if thunder prog can succeed in 1990s with CAC had no expertise why would azm fail now
• i dont know why i replied to you, generally i dont

he would say we should acquire 3 carrier groups, than he would quote from a famous ex israeli PM..... , though Israel doesn't has a carrier or sig navy and doesnt face an enemy like india... infact is surrounded by allies, poorly trained arabs who never learned to fight under protection of ottomans and backed by USA the most power ful nation existed in modern history with largest resources in the whole world

Hi, I think you should re-read what MastanKhan wrote in the previous page. Including something about non winging it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Don't you think sir, if we want to keep our enemy away from our zone at 450 km or greater, than we have to acquire air craft carrier???

Hi,

Why would you need an aircraft carrier---. If you have good aircraft with a good loiter time---then you don't need an A/C carrier---.

The aircraft in your strike element must carry 2 CM400AKG type AShM's minimum and not the C802--.

CM400AKG is to keep the enemy farther out---C802 should be your second line of defence.

You have to understand one thing---the enemy is very conscious of its naval assets---it does not want to bring them in if there is a real danger of losing them---.

The bottomline is---you have to keep the battle in the enemy's arena and not in your neighborhood.

The nations that have allowed the enemy to come to them thinking that their defences would hold---there is nothing left of those civilizations.

The great wall never stopped the mongols---and none of the sea barriers or the thickness of the walls protected the Byzantine empire---.

Baghdad---Samarkand---Bukhara---their defences could not stop the enemy.

Even in the modern day battles---Bar lev lines were destroyed---and so was the Maginot lines---the bunkers at Normandy did not hold back the invasion either---.

That is why I have stated many a times---any one who talks of depending on the defence---is being treasonous to pakistan---.

The battle must be fought in the enemy heartland---that creates a panic in the civilian population---a panic in the civilian population has a catastrophic effect on the morale of the soldiers.

A panic creates chaos---and chaos leads to unrest---which in turn leads to anarchy in the area---which leads to the disruption of govt activities and the daily lives of the public---.

Once the civil unrest starts---that starts to shaken up the foundations of the nation---.

A military cannot fight a war & win with civil unrest back home.

So many of you kids ---it just breaks my heart---no one has ever taught you how to fight wars---you never read up on history and never understand that there is more to war than two armies duking it out---.

 

[ziaulislam]

most agree c802 is better option and hence it seems PN might not even ordered the earlier(and why europe and american new/older missles are all subsonic low terrain hugging)
the reason is while c802 is stealth low level terrian hugging missles, the other is qusi ballistic missile which is immediately detected at launch

 

[MastanKhan]

most agree c802 is better option and hence it seems PN might not even ordered the earlier(and why europe and american new/older missles are all subsonic low terrain hugging)
the reason is while c802 is stealth low level terrian hugging missles, the other is qusi ballistic missile which is immediately detected at launch

Hi,

I guess you have not read the news---. A U S frigate anti missile system shot down multiple subsonic iranian origin AShM on in the yemen conflict ayear or so ago---.

https://www.google.com/search?q=US+...ome..69i57.14933j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Most of them were the C802 type---

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi,

I guess you have not read the news---. A U S frigate anti missile system shot down multiple subsonic iranian origin AShM on in the yemen conflict ayear or so ago---.

https://www.google.com/search?q=US+...ome..69i57.14933j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Most of them were the C802 type---

yes you're right sir are you thinking about supersonic/hyper-sonic anti ship missiles? sir for those they have these sir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-162_ESSM

 

[The-Hack]

Hi,

Why would you need an aircraft carrier---. If you have good aircraft with a good loiter time---then you don't need an A/C carrier---.

The aircraft in your strike element must carry 2 CM400AKG type AShM's minimum and not the C802--.

CM400AKG is to keep the enemy farther out---C802 should be your second line of defence.

You have to understand one thing---the enemy is very conscious of its naval assets---it does not want to bring them in if there is a real danger of losing them---.

The bottomline is---you have to keep the battle in the enemy's arena and not in your neighborhood.

The nations that have allowed the enemy to come to them thinking that their defences would hold---there is nothing left of those civilizations.

The great wall never stopped the mongols---and none of the sea barriers or the thickness of the walls protected the Byzantine empire---.

Baghdad---Samarkand---Bukhara---their defences could not stop the enemy.

Even in the modern day battles---Bar lev lines were destroyed---and so was the Maginot lines---the bunkers at Normandy did not hold back the invasion either---.

That is why I have stated many a times---any one who talks of depending on the defence---is being treasonous to pakistan---.

The battle must be fought in the enemy heartland---that creates a panic in the civilian population---a panic in the civilian population has a catastrophic effect on the morale of the soldiers.

A panic creates chaos---and chaos leads to unrest---which in turn leads to anarchy in the area---which leads to the disruption of govt activities and the daily lives of the public---.

Once the civil unrest starts---that starts to shaken up the foundations of the nation---.

A military cannot fight a war & win with civil unrest back home.

So many of you kids are so dumb---it just breaks my heart---no one has ever taught you how to fight wars---you never read up on history and never understand that there is more to war than two armies duking it out---.

Thanks for such a splendid reply,
One thing more i want to ask you sir which i can't understand yet...............
"The Iraq-Iran war 1980-87, who was the winner and who lost that war???

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks for such a splendid reply,
One thing more i want to ask you sir which i can't understand yet...............
"The Iraq-Iran war 1980-87, who was the winner and who lost that war???

Hi,

It was a stalemate---.

https://www.quora.com/Which-country-was-the-victor-of-the-Iran-Iraq-war

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi,

It was a stalemate---.

https://www.quora.com/Which-country-was-the-victor-of-the-Iran-Iraq-war

Hi MastanKhan sb can Pakistan get long range Ashm about 500 km type or 450 if they don’t want
To go for twin engine jets just a thought if it’s kind of solution for the time being for PN
So we can have some point defence system instead of going out of the PN area
Thanks you for the input

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi MastanKhan sb can Pakistan get long range Ashm about 500 km type or 450 if they don’t want
To go for twin engine jets just a thought if it’s kind of solution for the time being for PN
So we can have some point defence system instead of going out of the PN area
Thanks you for the input

Hi,

CM400AKG is a 500 km missile---. But you cannot depend on missiles alone---.

Next someone would say---why do we need an air force---let us get SAMs---.

When you are flying 200 miles from your shoreline---guess what---that may keep the enemy another 200 miles away from your shores.

First of all---you can see everything that is under you---secondly---your presence 200 miles from the shore makes enemy's position and actions uncertain---uncertainty creates mistakes and errors---fear of being discovered makes them go into the panic mode---.

If the protection of the FRONTIERS is strong---the protection of the heartlands would be easy---but if there is weak protection of the Frontiers---the heartlands would be easy target for the enemy---.

 

[Ultima Thule]

CM400AKG is a 500 km missile---. But you cannot depend on missiles alone---.

240 Km due to MTCR issue sir

Max Range: 250 kilometer (135 nautical mile)
http://www.deagel.com/Offensive-Weapons/CM-400AKG_a003099002.aspx

 

[MastanKhan]

240 Km due to MTCR issue sir

Max Range: 250 kilometer (135 nautical mile)
http://www.deagel.com/Offensive-Weapons/CM-400AKG_a003099002.aspx

Hi,

Enjoy the read---.

13. What is the difference between MTCR Category I and Category II Items?

https://www.state.gov/t/isn/rls/fs/2017/266847.htm

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi,

Enjoy the read---.

13. What is the difference between MTCR Category I and Category II Items?

https://www.state.gov/t/isn/rls/fs/2017/266847.htm

with due respect sir i don't understand you sir are you trying to say that CM-400AKG range is 500 Km sir all respected sites say that it has a range of 240- 250 km and what is you trying to convey me

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Jo paisa naval airforce bnany py lagana hai uc sy bhtar hai PAF naval role ky leye JH7 ya SU35 ly lo.
Inshallah afaqa ho ga.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Enjoy the read---.

13. What is the difference between MTCR Category I and Category II Items?

https://www.state.gov/t/isn/rls/fs/2017/266847.htm

Hi,

The range has changed multiple times on the websites---