Israel ahead of US in race to supply ‘tank-killer’ missiles to India

[KS]

The US aren't idiots any such move would only hurt their long term interests. India doesn't like being told what to do. We can see the US has taken a much more pragmatic Line when it comes to India and defence ties- back in '08-'10 the US was pushing HARD for India to sign pacts such as CISMA,EUMA,LSA etc saying India wouldn't be allowed access to their best equipment without such signatures, now in 2012 India has on order from the US the most advanced MPA on the planet, the most advanced strategic lifter,

I believe even those systems on order are stripped of those components for which India did not sign those alphabet soup of pacts. We are not getting the parts what the other countries which signed the pacts are getting.

 

[KS]

You don't know Indian Muslims. For them India is always the first priority as they are "Indian" Muslims. They may condemn Israel's action regarding many issues but at the same time they also know that Israel has always been friend in need of India.

So don't bring this issue.

I'm requoting my post:

Lets put truth as it is, again there is no one point of view and like any other thing there is a whole spectrum of views regarding this. Many are outspoken against Israel and would want India to cut down all relations, some are against it for obvious reasons but understand the necessity of Indian relationship with Israel and hence view it as a necessary evil, some are against but would not show it, some support it whole heartedly as they can see the benefits behind that and view the problem as a Israeli-Arab problem and not as a Jew-Muslim problem.

Similarly not all among Hindus support Israel as well. There is the leftist view that abhors any relation with Israel, the centrist view that cares for Palestinians but also favors co-op with Israel for their technologies, there is the rightist view that supports Israel because of the shared problems like terrorism, way it deals with terrorists, technologies etc and does not care/hate Palestine and then there is the extreme right wing view that hates Palestine and loves Israel as a role model.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...nk-killer-missiles-india-2.html#ixzz2DfPkCcz6

 

[Abingdonboy]

I believe even those systems on order are stripped of those components for which India did not sign those alphabet soup of pacts. We are not getting the parts what the other countries which signed the pacts are getting.

This is correct but India is getting around this buy installing replacment Indian made equipment of equal if not superior capability to the orgingal. Nothing lost.

 

[SpArK]

 

[Kloitra]

^^^^ Since we are opting for man portable ones..

http://www.eurospike.com/ground.html

Ground (man portable) Operation

The Firing Post consists of a Command & Launch Unit, Thermal Sight, Tripod and Battery. SPIKE-MR and SPIKE-LR work with the same firing post. SPIKE-ER has his own Tripod, because of the greater size and power.
A two soldier's team can carry two Rounds with the Firing Post. The Missile can be operated and launched directly from the gunner shoulder or from a stabilizing Tripod.

Thermal Sight

The TS provides observation and acquisition at night, day and adverse weather conditions (dust, haze, smoke, etc.).
There are two fields of view used for observation and target acquisition:
- Wide Field of View (WFOV) - used für orientation and targets detection
(the bounds of the NFOV are displayed on the CLU monitor).
- Narrow Field of View (NFOV) - used for targets recognition and their acquisition.

Command & Launch Unit (CLU)

The CLU provides target acquisition surveillance through the day sight or thermal sight, activation and launching the Spike Missile.
There are four basic functions
- Target observation and acquisition, using the day sight or the thermal sight.
- Target acquisition and lock-on through the missile seeker.
- Missile launching.
- Updating of the lock-on point before and during missile flight (LR and ER only).

Round

The round consists of a missile encased in a disposable launcher with appropriate interfaces and is protected and sealed within the canister. The missile is equipped with an advanced tracker, based on a dual mode (CCD and IIR) sensor in order to be able to cope with all weather conditions, using the fire and forget mode of operation.

 

[selvan33]

MAPONA ATGM

The MAPONA (MAn-POrtable NAg) is essentially a shorter-ranged, miniaturized Nag ATGM to be used by infantry forces. The weapon, as with the Nag, comes with both millimeter-wave radar (MMW) and imaging infrared (IIR) seekers, which are interchangeable and allow the missile to be reconfigured to suit operational needs. Aside from this unusual feature, it is in a similar class to the US Javelin, and will be one of only a handful of true fire-and-forget infantry ATGMs in service - anywhere.

The MAPONA project is almost as old as the Nag project itself, with an obvious desire to have weapon with similar capabilities and high commonality with the Nag as the standard infantry ATGM, vastly improving both logistics and operational capability. Like the basic Nag, it will have a two-stage rocket propulsion with a 1-second booster followed by a smokeless sustainer. This leaves only a brief period where the missile's flight path can be traced back to the launcher via an exhaust plume, which combines with its parabolic flight path and fire-and-forget nature to provid a high survivability rate to troops using the weapon while at the same time making it one of the most difficult weapons in its class to counter. As with the Javelin, it uses a top attack profile, but can be programmed for direct attack against targets like bunkers.

Unique to the Nag family, the missile does not fly a true parabolic path, but rather follows a parabolic path to a point near the target before suddenly popping up to fly a top attack profile. This somewhat unusual flight path may make the missile more difficult for some active protection systems to counter.

The overall missile weight is 13.4 kg, with an 8 kg tandem HEAT warhead. It will weigh under 20 kg with launcher and be effective out to 2500m. The missile will eventually replace most other types of infantry ATGM, with an eventual requirement of over 3000 launchers and up to 80,000 missiles.

Specifications
Weight (Missile): 13.4 kg
Weight (Launcher): 5.7 kg
Engine: 2-stage solid fuel rocket
Speed: 220 m/s
Range: 75-2500m
Guidance: IIR or MMW
CEP: 0.8m
Single-Shot Hit Probability: .81
Cost: $1.1 million (launcher & 10 missiles), $300,000 (launch unit), $80,000 missile)
Production Rate: up to 5000 missiles per year


Hey guys what about its atatus.

 

[SpArK]

 

[vsdoc]

Doc - that avatar, Doc! It's..it's kind of spell-binding. I hope you were joking when you said it was you in your well-lit up days.

Yes sadly I was.

I was nowhere as good looking or charismatic.

 

[OrionHunter]

Israel and India are becoming really close partners. How does India explains this to its massive Muslim population? Muslims are against Israel , isn't it?

What? Since when has India to take permission from Muslims before buying defence equipment from Israel???????? Is the Indian defence doctrine dependent on the likes and dislikes of the Muslim population? Jeeez!

Secondly, Indian Muslims care two hoots where we buy weapons from as long as India is well prepared for any eventuality. They are as much Indians as Hindus are except for the likes of Abu Jindal and his terror cohorts.

 

[surya kiran]

What? Since when has India to take permission from Muslims before buying defence equipment from Israel???????? Is the Indian defence doctrine dependent on the likes and dislikes of the Muslim population? Jeeez!

Secondly, Indian Muslims care two hoots where we buy weapons from as long as India is well prepared for any eventuality. They are as much Indians as Hindus are except for the likes of Abu Jindal and his terror cohorts.

Such concepts cannot be understood by the unwanted Overlord Protector of the Global Muslim Ummah.

 

[zaxcollix]

What? Since when has India to take permission from Muslims before buying defence equipment from Israel???????? Is the Indian defence doctrine dependent on the likes and dislikes of the Muslim population? Jeeez!

Secondly, Indian Muslims care two hoots where we buy weapons from as long as India is well prepared for any eventuality. They are as much Indians as Hindus are except for the likes of Abu Jindal and his terror cohorts.

Of course we have to. That is democracy at work. India defense doctrine does factor in likes and dislikes of the Muslim population. Its foolish to assume otherwise.

Secondly, Indian Muslims does care where we buy weapons from. They are politically not strong enough (yet) to stop defense sales from Israel. Muslims are as much Indians as Hindus but they have different global political goals than Hindus. Of course saying this makes me a RSS chadiwala and non secular and probably some old fart here would be seething with righteous fury, but I guess we have to suffer all sorts.

 

[KS]

This is correct but India is getting around this buy installing replacment Indian made equipment of equal if not superior capability to the orgingal. Nothing lost.

I somehow doubt it. Lets be honest here. Maybe that replacement would not affect the overall superiority of the machine wth respect to that of others, but sayng that they will be superior to those on offer from US, that I cannot agree.

Of course we have to. That is democracy at work. India defense doctrine does factor in likes and dislikes of the Muslim population. Its foolish to assume otherwise.

Secondly, Indian Muslims does care where we buy weapons from. They are politically not strong enough (yet) to stop defense sales from Israel. Muslims are as much Indians as Hindus but they have different global political goals than Hindus. Of course saying this makes me a RSS chadiwala and non secular and probably some old fart here would be seething with righteous fury, but I guess we have to suffer all sorts.

Atleast someone who can say things, as it is.

 

[sancho]

There have been times when some Americans and experts have raised doubts on India's activeness in Indo-US partnership and how India is not dependable whn it comes to the partnership OR how India cant be fully trusted like an ally. I too felt sometimes that India is not doing enough for the partnership (my view) as US seems more dedicated..but I think deals like these remind us of US way of partnership....so in a way am glad the way India is moving.

The so called US partnership, after decades of supporting Pakistan is based on their desperate need to get us on their side against China. There is no need to do more than what we are doing right now, because we are in the better position and that's why we can play the cards as we want. We want them to provide us more ToT and reduce the restrictions, similar to what all others provide us too, so if they don't they won't get the big number deals and we go to the next option.

 

[PteX]

i wonder how israel would feel if we send anti-aircraft ammunition as well as bofors to all of her surrounding neighbours.....not a wise move on their part, but then again business is business -- nothing personal.

by the way, doesnt indian air force already have weaponry that could be used against mechanized armour?

When has Pakistan ever considered Israel's wants and needs? I doubt Pakistan is holding back on selling anything to her Muslim ally nations, it's just that other Muslim nations prefer American rather than Pakistani.

To the topic on hand:

As always, Israel is on India's side and delivers what India needs.

 

[Abingdonboy]

When has Pakistan ever considered Israel's wants and needs? I doubt Pakistan is holding back on selling anything to her Muslim ally nations, it's just that other Muslim nations prefer American rather than Pakistani.

To the topic on hand:

As always, Israel is on India's side and delivers what India needs.

A force to be reckoned with!