ISPR saying Indians FM radio along Pak/Afgan border

[zraver]

Are u dreaming ? India attacked Pakistan on 6th of Sep 1965 by crossing the International Border, with dreams of having Tea in Lahore Gymkhana.

Then perhaps the PAF should not have crossed the border on 1sep65.

Afghanistan attacked US on 9/11 the same way Iraq had "Weapons Of Mass Destruction" ? For heavens Sake.... US has not been able to provide any credible evidence for the 9/11 attacks ...Yet invaded a country and killed more then a million... the leaders were given shelter and education with US money only...and yes selling state secrets is not in Pakistan's interest but it sure is in US interests when they sell them to israel

oh bother... Yup the US destroyed its own financial hub causing hundreds of billions in lost money. Do you seriously believe that? What about OBL taking credit for it, or the fact we captured the 9-11 mastermind in Pakistan?

Ahsan_R

The same question can be turned back. The point is nuclear weapons are minimum deterrent in case other nation also has them.

Since no nukes have been dropped since 1945 the evidence is pretty slim. However what we do know

The only country ever nuked is Japan. Under conventional wisdom this attack has to go into the category of reap what you sow since Japan had been using gas and bio weapons in China for years and killed millions. Japan actually got lightly compared to what she did to China, Indonesia, Phillipines and others.

Of the non-nuclear dejure or defacto state actors that got into a shooting war with a nuclear power- North Korea, Vietnam, Argentina, Iraq, Georgia, Hamas, Taliban, Syria, Egypt and Jordan none have ever been hit with nukes.

Nuclear armed powers have only directly faced each other 1x during the Kargil War.

As you see the evidence is sparse and hardly supports your assertion that nuclear weapons or any form of WMD adds to a nations ability to defend itself.

You have to leave them alone. They do not want outsider interference obviously. Let them live their way as long as they do not bother with you. They did not bother with anyone else either until US came knocking in 2001 because of the false-flag operation little earlier.

It was not a false flag op and please don't insult my intelligence, the people who died. or the people who openly admitted to carrying it out.

The notion of an ally is not as simple as you imply.

My words were pretty clear- the US is Pakistan's oldest ally.

Don't really think they preach war against anyone who does not agree with them. Rather anyone who interefers in their country. Nonetheless, I agree that these Jihadi madresshas have to be taken down. I do not know of any progress on this issue except a lot of madressahs known for preaching hate were anything but preaching hate.

Some of those madrassas teach a strain that claims that any area that has ever had a Muslim ruler must be retaken. Spain, Italy, Greece, Macedonia, Sicily and others. They preach that anyone who is not Muslim (Muslim being= like them) belongs to the house of war. You under estimate their hate at your peril.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I said designs, not territorial ambitions,a d your country is hip deep in Intenral Afghan politics.

And the US, India, Iran are not?

Fine, then on your word that its not rouge, next time its fingers are found in the cookie jar I'll assume its acting on behalf of the GoP and the Pakistani people.

There has been no credible evidence indicating the ISI as an institution has had its 'hand in the cookie jar' since 2001, if by hand in the cookie jar what is implied is support to the Taliban.

If you honestly think India a nation just sort of a billion Hindus is behind a Pashtun/Wahabist rebellion I have a bridge to sell you.

The majority of East Pakistanis were Muslims as well ...

My Nation and USSR were able to disarm peacefully and pull the hands of the clock away from midnight.

In that case let us know when the Indians decide to fulfill their commitments to the UNSC resolutions on Kashmir and end the occupation of Kashmir, decide to enter negotiations with Pakistan on thinning troops along the IB and LoC.

Takes 'two to tango', and the Indians have shown little interest.

However dealing with India- how many times has Indian soil, or in disputed areas lacking a defined international border- Indian controlled areas been invaded vs how many times has India been the invader? You've bought your government propaganda- hook line and sinker.

About as much as Pakistan has been subject to Indian aggression - 1971 when India supported terrorists and rebels in East Pakistan to break it apart. 1984 when India invaded Siachen in violation of the Simla Agreement.

On Pakistan's side you could point to 1965 when Pakistan tried to stoke a rebellion in disputed Kashmir, and Kargil in 1999. So hardly a case of 'one sided Pakistani aggression against India' as you claim.

Blame India, blame the USA blame anyone but ourselves does not fix Pakistan's problems. If your government hadn't cut a deal with the devil in the tribal regions in the first place none of this would be happening. If your nation had stressed accountable government rather than warloards err Generals none of this would have happened.

If the US had chosen to not rush to war in Afghanistan and explore the options voiced by Taliban leaders of possible trials of the accused in mutually acceptable third countries, none of this would be happening either.

 

[RiazHaq]

P Chidambaram has warned Pakistan against meddling in India's affairs and said any more terror, according to news reports. "We have been gaining strength day by day to counter terrorism from across the border. I have been warning Pakistan not to play games with us. (I have told them that) the last game should be Mumbai attacks. Stop it there," he told a public meeting in his home state of Madras last night.

The tough talk by Chida is nothing but a smokescreen to divert attention from India's ongoing covert war against Pakistan that is causing daily civilian carnage.

Pakistan's unambiguous response should be to call Chida's bluff by giving an ultimatum to India to stop using TTP and BLF to kill innocent Pakistanis, or be prepared to face the consequences.

Read more at Haq's Musings: Taliban or RAW-liban?

 

[Barrett]

Then perhaps the PAF should not have crossed the border on 1sep65.

Just to clear your perception, it was not 1st Sep... the conflict started aggressively in Aug the same year but that was over the disputed territory in Kashmir.. but the first violation of international borders was done by the IAF on 6th of Sep...

oh bother... Yup the US destroyed its own financial hub causing hundreds of billions in lost money. Do you seriously believe that? What about OBL taking credit for it, or the fact we captured the 9-11 mastermind in Pakistan?

Are you suggesting that all the Intelligence agencies had failed and had no information. A group of Cave men attack the financial Hub of a Super Power, bring down buildings by hitting two commercial Jets into them and the intelligence apparatus was unaware of it? As far as the loss is concerned it was peanuts in comparison with the Oil/gas reserves they were making ground for.Unfortunately all this went unexpectedly wrong.

Hypothetically speaking even if we do accept that yes it was Al-Qaeda that attacked US, what is the explanation for Iraq, according to the ex-president whose IQ was not any more then that of a baboon was sure about Saddam's Possession of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" & "Democracy" for the people of Iraq.

The policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing Weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries that you do not permit to posses such weapons. As for the countries you consent to , such as israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else whom you suspect "might" posses these weapons, you call them criminals and military action is taken against them.

Has democracy been implemented? The situation is hundred times worse then before, Millions killed,injured and the rest homeless and jobless. What is the justification for aggression against the civilians for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake or are you following the same ideology as the terrorists ?
Has the world become a safer place with your policies of suppression, cruelty, injustice, tyranny and godlessness ?

The World has plunged into chaos, intolerance, frustration, lawlessness, injustice and extremism.

 

[pakdefender]

You are right. Nice find.
SO AIR got the news from Kabul radio and regurgitated it. Whats wrong with that?
But you also got to remember that AIR was/is a government mouthpiece and will air government news and such. As to my comment, I said AIR didn't only air Pakistan related news, they aired all the relevant news of the day!

After getting exposed as a lier , I thought I'll spare you any further humiliation but seeing your posts you indians never learn.

You ask , Whats wrong with that ?!?! I suppose nothing wrong there so long as you admit to your involvment in the whole Pashtunistan issue.

 

[zraver]

Are you suggesting that all the Intelligence agencies had failed and had no information. A group of Cave men attack the financial Hub of a Super Power, bring down buildings by hitting two commercial Jets into them and the intelligence apparatus was unaware of it?

The intelligence services didn't make the connection. Intelligence services are not infallible , especially when confronted with something new and unexpected. The old paradigm said when a plan was hijacked demands would follow and then you'd start negotiations. No one really expected a plane to be used as a missile, let alone 4 of them at once.

Even the vaunted US military was caught flat foot footed, when fighters scrambled, they were running on cold war era plans and headed out to sea (where they could be more easily vectored v Soviet bombers) rather than inland.

As far as the loss is concerned it was peanuts in comparison with the Oil/gas reserves they were making ground for.Unfortunately all this went unexpectedly wrong.

The US lost something like 200 billion dollars on 9-11 more than the nominal GDP of Pakistan wiped out in one day.

Hypothetically speaking even if we do accept that yes it was Al-Qaeda that attacked US, what is the explanation for Iraq, according to the ex-president whose IQ was not any more then that of a baboon was sure about Saddam's Possession of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" & "Democracy" for the people of Iraq.

1. Bush is a very smart man you've been duped. He has a degree from Harvard, can fly mach 2 fighters, never lost an election and got the war he wanted (don't try and kill his daddy). Don't mistake his speech impediment (which only showed up when he ran for president- he was very articulate as the Gov of Texas) for stupidity. If leaders are judged by their ability to do what they want to do Bush is among the greatest.

2. 1500 tons of chemical weapons, precursor chemicals and other stuff related to a WMD program was found. What was not found was evidence of a program in operation after 1992. At least part of the fault for this rests with Saddam. He felt that having his neighbors think he had WMD would keep them at bay, and would also keep his shia and Kurdish subjects in line. He wanted the world to believe he had WMD's and it did.

don't get me wrong, Bush lied and fabricated some evidence- he wanted war with Saddam, but Saddam made it easy.

The policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing Weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries that you do not permit to posses such weapons. As for the countries you consent to , such as israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else whom you suspect "might" posses these weapons, you call them criminals and military action is taken against them.

The only country with its program forcibly removed so far is Iraq and for the reason that Iraq used them as an invader and occupier.

Has democracy been implemented?

yes, and the next round of elections is only a month or so away IIRC.

The situation is hundred times worse then before,Millions killed,injured and the rest homeless and jobless

Before- Saddam's thugs rounding people up and massacring them (300,000-1,000,000), UN sanctiosn leading to mass malnutrition, collapsing social servives repression of everyone who was not a Tikriti.

Now- about 100,000 have died in 6 years, unemployment is between 18-30% depending on the region (9-21% higher than the US, the lights are on, the water is flowing, there are elections, the bazaars are open, people can travel, go to school and Northern Iraq is a tourist mecca.

What is the justification for aggression against the civilians for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake or are you following the same ideology as the terrorists ?

Civilians pay the debts of the state that is war. The terrorist who flew panes into the WTC didn't make the distinction either.

Has the world become a safer place with your policies of suppression, cruelty, injustice, tyranny and godlessness ?

America has, BTW America is not Godless.

The World has plunged into chaos, intolerance, frustration, lawlessness, injustice and extremism.

The world has always been that way. Man is mans worst enemy and there is no utopia. we will always compete for resources and the weak will always be oppressed for all of us are nothing more than cavemen with cellphones.

 

[kursed]

and also brought the Kashmir issue to lime light which was the ultimate goal of the mission.

I'd not like to get into a huge discussion, but pray tell me how did the Kargil mission manage to achieve this?

How is Kashmir in a better position now, then it was back then? [This while keeping in mind, that violence in Kashmir only died down after the attack on the Indian parliament in 2001, after which international pressure increased on Gen. (r) Pervaiz Musharraf to control militant movement from Pakistan into India - that's got nothing to do with Kargil war].

From my point of view, if anything, it triggered a massive military renovation exercise within all three branches of the Indian military.

 

[Barrett]

The intelligence services didn't make the connection. Intelligence services are not infallible , especially when confronted with something new and unexpected. The old paradigm said when a plan was hijacked demands would follow and then you'd start negotiations. No one really expected a plane to be used as a missile, let alone 4 of them at once.

So in other words the security apparatus is incompetent... and failed to protect the people of the great super power.

The US lost something like 200 billion dollars on 9-11 more than the nominal GDP of Pakistan wiped out in one day.

It was more then the GDP of Pakistan so that was the reason for attacking Afghanistan?

1. Bush is a very smart man you've been duped. He has a degree from Harvard, can fly mach 2 fighters, never lost an election and got the war he wanted (don't try and kill his daddy). Don't mistake his speech impediment (which only showed up when he ran for president- he was very articulate as the Gov of Texas) for stupidity. If leaders are judged by their ability to do what they want to do Bush is among the greatest.

2. 1500 tons of chemical weapons, precursor chemicals and other stuff related to a WMD program was found. What was not found was evidence of a program in operation after 1992. At least part of the fault for this rests with Saddam. He felt that having his neighbors think he had WMD would keep them at bay, and would also keep his shia and Kurdish subjects in line. He wanted the world to believe he had WMD's and it did.

don't get me wrong, Bush lied and fabricated some evidence- he wanted war with Saddam, but Saddam made it easy.

As far as the smartness of Bush is concerned i can only laugh over it and anyone who believes he was a smart man is equally intelligent.

Prior to the war, the governments of the United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. In 2002, the U.N. Security Council passed Resolution 1441 which called for Iraq to completely cooperate with U.N. weapon inspectors to verify that Iraq was not in possession of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles. Weapons inspectors found no evidence of WMD, but could not verify the accuracy of Iraq's weapon declarations. At the time Hans Blix, the lead weapons inspector, advised the UN Security Council that while Iraq was cooperating in terms of access, Iraq's declarations with regards to WMD still could not be verified.

It was only after they invaded Iraq all the weapons were found.

Bush was worried about the Kurds and shias ?
Your policies are always made to safeguard the illegal state of Israel. Why didn't you realize the need of democracy when Lebanon was attacked or when the Israelis continue to plaster Gaza and bomb them with gun ship helicopters and Fighter Jets .... You only attack and destabilize countries covertly who refuse to accept The terrorist state of Israel and pose any threat to it... You are nothing but puppets at the hands of the Zionist lobby who fund your election campaigns and control your economy,media and foreign policies.

Before- Saddam's thugs rounding people up and massacring them (300,000-1,000,000), UN sanctiosn leading to mass malnutrition, collapsing social servives repression of everyone who was not a Tikriti.

Now- about 100,000 have died in 6 years, unemployment is between 18-30% depending on the region (9-21% higher than the US, the lights are on, the water is flowing, there are elections, the bazaars are open, people can travel, go to school and Northern Iraq is a tourist mecca.

More then 800,000 people killed…2 million internally displace and nearly 2.5 million have left Iraq

59% of your population believes that sending troops to Iraq was a mistake, while 53% believe that Bush administration mislead its people deliberately

USA today/gallup FEB 2008

Dozens of your own Americans at important positions have admitted the Iraq as "A complete Failure"

the only country with its program forcibly removed so far is Iraq and for the reason that Iraq used them as an invader and occupier.

There was no evidence of the program to exist in the first place and if following this theory of invader and occupier is implemented then there is no bigger invader/occupier then US itself (Vietnam,Japan,Somalia,Iraq & Afghanistan) and what about Israel ?

yes, and the next round of elections is only a month or so away IIRC.

Who is US to attack a country, kill millions and then put puppets on positions who have no power whatsoever and call it democracy?
The same democracy You have implemented in Afghanistan .... President Karzai (Ex-Regional Head of Unocol) who can not go out of his palace let alone Kabul... whose brother is the biggest Drug Lord in the country. When people elect their leaders in Palestine & Algeria you don't accept them because they refuse to act as your slaves...

Civilians pay the debts of the state that is war. The terrorist who flew panes into the WTC didn't make the distinction either.

So you follow the same ideology as the Terrorists ? what makes you any different ?

 

[mr42O]

i have only one thing to tell short indians. After TTP are taken care of guess who will be next target ? get ready

 

[Goodperson]

i have only one thing to tell short indians. After TTP are taken care of guess who will be next target ? get ready

Closing down the said FM Radio ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i have only one thing to tell short indians. After TTP are taken care of guess who will be next target ? get ready

Lets not bandy about threats shall we - it vitiates the atmosphere in terms of discussion.

 

[Naradmuni]

Let me share something with you ZRAVER---muslims ruled india for close to 600---800 years----a very small minority of muslims---at one time maybe 2 % of the population was ruling over 98 % POPULATION---and at times the rule was extremely brutal to the subjugated class---in he same manner that you subjugated your american indian natives---at one time or other---india and indians will seek their revenge on us and try to annihilate us---that is a given---not today or tomorrow but definitely day after tomorrow---so we have no love lost over here.

India and us---we will be at war with each other in due time---a major clash---there is no ifs and buts about it---they only need one Radovan Karadjzic---they could have done it ---but the problem is that the indians cremate their dead---so there are no bones buried deep to be dug out of the graves and waved around to spread hatred.

Very pathetic and if this is what most of the pakistanis think then this is really very sad.

mastankhan, you have a think tank status and I am amused why you didint think that Muslims living in India are also of the same race as that of pakistani muslims. Also, maybe Indian muslims outnumber pakistani muslims. Giving a temporary credit to your dismal opinion for the moment, Dont you think it would be easy for Indians to annihilate muslims in India and BD first before targeting pakistan??

If Indians (read hindus) were so keen on annihilating entire muslim community to avenge the brutual ruling of atrotious muslim rulers, (which according to you, they would in near future) why is it that Muslims in India live in peace and harmony as compared to those in pakistan (Inter religious shia sunni conflicts).

The scene of religious tolerance in India is far more better than violent shia sunni and other intolerant inter religious/ tribal conflicts which occasionaly occur in pakistan. Why is that minority hindu population in pakistan is now almost nil and muslims in India are still flourishing? A majority of Hindus (Including me) occasionaly visit Ajmer sharif and Haji Ali, also many muslim devotees seek blessings at Shirdi Sai baba. Muslims in mumbai participate in large numbers in traditional Hindu festivals like "Ganesh Utsavs", Holi etc each year. (You wont believe this would you?)

No doubt, muslim rulers after shah jahan were very opressive towards majority hindus, but if your hypothetical opinion is considered true, that Indians are still vengeful of muslims, why would India still choose to be secular nation in first place? Why would the revolutionaries of the 1957 first war of independece, mostly hindus, would make Bahadur Shah Zafar the emperor of India, when they temporarily siezed control over Delhi from the East India Company? Why would Indians elect a muslim man as its President of the republic? (Can you even imagine that happening in pakistan)

Yes, In India some unfortunate incidents (Ayodhya, Godhra) have occured in past but those were more or less politically motivated than based on extreme intolerance for each other.

Really most of the Indians want Pakistan Dead and buried, but that is not because Indians are anti muslims or because they want to revenge the brutual ruling of atrotious muslim rulers but plainly because Pakistan has been a real pain in the @$$ for India right since its inception. Pakistans creation was based on the philosophy of hatred and intolerance. You know very well that India was never created, it simply was there. Indian hostility towards pakistan is in response to laters extreme Intolerance for India and not because of its race and religion.

In someway or the other pakistan has been used as pawns by US and now china, and acted at their behest to create a strategic black hole for India in the region and that is why Indians do not look at pakistan in good faith. I seek your pardon but pakistan would be happy to beg aid from China and US but would never tolerate India's rising in the region (even being racially same). BTW Chinese and Americans are equally kafirs as are Indians and both have been accused of harrasing muslims(WOT, Uighur etc), even then they would be called "true" friends of pakistan.

This philosophy of Intolerance towards India has been bestowed unto pakistan by two nation theoriest and sustained by nearly 4 decades of army control on almost everything in pakistan. The moment this intolerance is shed, there could be nothing better for pakistan, India and the region.

 

[Icarus]

Can you give any proof to your claims ??? Any valid source or link?

Yep, a report was assembled, presented in the parliament and then copies were sent to Washington and New Delhi.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Proof of Indian hand South Waziristan: army

Indian RAW funded Swat terrorists:$650 million to destabilize Pakistan Pak Alert Press

India behind most terror attacks in Pakistan: Interior Minister | Town 9 Times

 

[Icarus]

But unlike Pak, India is not on the verge of being a failed state.
You cant counter prescribe your doctor to take "your" medicine. I believe you did not get the essence of the argument posted by zraver.

So you say dear friend, but when you have Freedom Movements in 24 of your states and in 8 they are considered to have more public support then the Govt, i would pretty much label such a state to be on the verge of failiure.

 

[Kaali]

i have only one thing to tell short indians. After TTP are taken care of guess who will be next target ? get ready

Oh as was in 1965, 1971, 1999?


Are you not tired of getting kicked again and again or do you want another Bangladesh......


Refrain from offensive comments without any proof.