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ISPR issue 1965 War Hero's Picture. Pakistan Zindabad

What I quotedis a standard information accepted by the world. What you show is your own version.

One more thing. Its one thing to strike deep and other thing to maintain control. By the time ceasefire was called India was controlling twice the land Pakistan held.
A book called pakistan foreign policy 1947 - 2009 written by some Abdul Sattar is a real hiatory book :lol:

Also its concise lol

Man oh man Indians make me laugh so hard.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This Indian is actually quoting figures from "Indian Official History of 1965 War" released by the Indian Ministry of Defence P.319-321 and claiming that his information is unbiased while info from a book praised by famous foreign academics and historians is biased.:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
This document can be found on the BR website.:haha::haha::haha:

And Abdul Sattar is not some random guy, he was one of those guys who nailed Indian asses to the wall in the Tashkent agreement.:lol::bunny:
 
Man... I just checked on Google map. Kishangarh fort is like 335 km from Border.
Not bad Pak Army "NOT BAD""
View attachment 251663
You have confused the Kishangarh fort in Jaisalmer

KISHANGARH_FORT_JAISALMER.jpg


with Kishangarh fort in Kishangarh city

Google Maps


PA captured the one in Jaisamler
 
Indians can post all the pictures they want to their heart's content and make unrealistic claims, the stark reality is how the neutral observers and world media saw and reported this war. Here are some extracts from that period's reporting.


SUNDAY TIMES, London, September 19, 1965.
"Pakistan has been able to gain complete command of the air by literally knocking the Indian planes out of the skies if they had not already run away.
Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistan's pilots and Indian officer's leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces".

Peter Preston, The Guardian, London.
September 24, 1965
.
"One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds.
Although the Air Force gladly gives most credit to the Army, this is perhaps over-generous. India with roughly five times greater air power, expected an easy air superiority. Her total failure to attain it may be seen retrospectively as a vital, possibly the most vital, factor of the whole conflict.
Nur Khan is an alert, incisive man of 41, who seems even less. For six years until July he was on secondment and responsible for running Pakistan civil airline, which in a country, where now means sometime and sometime means never, is a model of efficiency. He talks without the jargon of a press relations officer. He does not quibble about figures, immediately one has confidence in what he says. His estimates proffered diffidently, but with as much photographic evidence as possible, speak for themselves. Indian and Pakistani losses, he thinks are in something like the ratio of ten to one.
"The Indians had no sense of purpose, the Pakistanis were defending their country and willingly taking greater risks. The average bomber crew flew 15 to 20 sorties. My difficulty was restraining them, not pushing them on".
" This is more than nationalistic pride. Talk to the pilots themselves, and you get the same intense story".

Patrick Seale, The Observer, London.
September 12, 1965.

"Pakistan's success in the air means that she had been able to deploy her relatively small army___ professionally among the best in Asia___ with impunity, plugging gaps in the long front in the face of each Indian thrust.
By all accounts the courage displayed by the PAF pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical Battle of Britain during the last war".

Roy Meloni, Correspondent of ABC,
September 15, 1965.

"I have been a journalist now for 20 years and want to go on record that i have never seen a more confident and victorious groups of soldiers than those fighting for Pakistan right now.
"India is claiming all out victory, i have not been able to find any trace of it. All i can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady stream towards the front.
If the Indian Air Force is so victorious, why has it not tried to halt this flow?
The answer is that it has been knocked from the skies by Pakistani planes. These Muslims of Pakistan are natural fighters and they ask for no quarter and they give none.
In any war, such as the one going on between India and Pakistan right now, the propaganda claims on either side are likely to be startling, but if i have to take bet today, my money would be on Pakistan side.
Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like one third of the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that the actual kills may be even higher, but the PAF authorities are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting PAF only those killing that can be checked and verified from other sources.


INDONESIAN HERALD,
September 11 1965.

"The chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-India Radio also admitted that Indian Air Force had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses.........".
.
Why are you posting neutral, authentic and international sources again and again, go for bharatrakshak(indian sources) and wikepedia and so. Help our Indian friends hide there shame and joy there great great victory which they have finally realized after 50 years that they should celebrate. You are not being fair to them. They have eventually come out of the trauma after 50 years and have finally gathered the immense courage under the leadership of a 56inch chest 'devta' to turn around the facts and make a case to celebrate, then tell me why are you being so cruel to them, let them have this face saving. :D
 
Not many people are aware of this but before the IAF surrendered it's Gnat aircraft to PAF, an Indian Air Force Dassault Ouragan fighter/bomber was also forced down by PAF fighters.

Rann-of-Kutch-1965-Mementos-Photos-Captured-Indian-Air-Force-Ouragan-aircraft.jpg


And the prize trophy.

1965-Indo-Pak-War-Mementos-Photos-Surrender-of-Indian-Air-Force-Gnat-aircraft-at-Pasrur.jpg

Wonder where this Ouragan is.
 
You have to laugh at the totally deranged fantasists who live in a world of made up "history" and "facts". A nation commited to live in a fog of lies, conspiracies, and paranoia. This is India's greatest weapon. No country can emerge to be anything but a nuisance when the whole population swims in a sea of fantasies.

Gibraltar, Grand Slam and war
CYRIL ALMEIDA — UPDATED ABOUT 8 HOURS AGO
55e207eaf1e83.jpg

The writer is a member of staff.
This isn’t a week for civilians. Wars old and new will be celebrated and much made of the abilities and wisdom of the Great Protectors. Which is fine, really. What’s a week between friends.

Especially if there’s not much good to say. 1965 was a bad idea taken to perfection, all three stages of it. First came Gibraltar, that silliness of sending irregulars and radicalised civilians over into India-held Kashmir to foment revolution.

When revolution didn’t show up, we got into the business of Grand Slam — sending regular army troops over to wrest a bit of India-held Kashmir and win that most lusted after of victories, a strategic one.

We don’t have to rely on uninformed opinion, because there is a uniformed one available.
Then came actual war across the border, for which we were somehow unprepared and scrambled to fight to a stalemate because the Indians were a bunch of reluctant invaders.

Told you, it’s not a week for civilians. Luckily, we don’t have to rely on uninformed opinion, because there is a uniformed one available.

An eminent one — dripping with medals, reached the highest offices, tasked to write the official tale of 1965 and took two decades to do it. But then he got the funny idea of publishing his 650-page report, which was promptly banned by the army and never heard of again.

It’s a good week to remember the forgotten. Coming to you from a dusty shelf, the words of Lt Gen (retd) Mahmud Ahmed from a tome rather unassumingly and modestly titled History of the Indo-Pak War — 1965.

Tell us, General, what was Operation Gibraltar all about?

“The military aim of launching the guerrilla operations was threefold. Firstly, disrupt Indian civil and military control of the State. Secondly, to encourage, assist and direct an armed revolt by the people of Kashmir against Indian military occupation, and thirdly, to created conditions for an advance by the Azad Kashmir forces into the heart of occupied Kashmir and eventual liberation of IHK.”

So, how’d it go?

“The intelligence directorates were unable to provide any worthwhile intelligence to 12 Division for the guerrilla operations. Each commander of the Gibraltar Forces was given a few names of collaborators whom they were able to contact after infiltration into inside Indian Held Kashmir but their reliability was uncertain. In fact, none came forth to help the guerrilla forces. Therefore, despite undetected infiltration across the Cease Fire Line, all the Gibraltar Forces, with the exception of Ghaznavi, ran into trouble at the very outset of their operations.”

Then what, General?

“In the event, the Gibraltar Forces were unable to initiate any large scale uprisings in IHK as was visualised or hoped. Instead, the Indian Army in Kashmir retaliated violently resulting in the loss of some valuable territory. Undismayed by these losses, [Maj Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik, commander of 12 Division] was able to convince GHQ that the time for the attack he had envisaged through the Munawwar Gap was indeed opportune since the bulk of the Indian Army in IHK was committed in the retaliatory operations in addition to its involvement in counter-insurgency measures. A reluctant GHQ was thus compelled to act in accordance with Gen Akhtar’s proposal by sheer force of circumstances rather than by sound professional reasoning which demanded logical military contingency preparations from the very moment when the decision to launch Operation Gibraltar was first taken.”

How’d one screw-up, Gibraltar, lead to an even bigger cock-up, Grand Slam?

“If anything, the limited guerrilla operation [Gibraltar] served as pinpricks to rouse a slumbering giant as it were, though India initially went into action almost reluctantly with a self-imposed restraint of confining its attacks to the upper parts of Kashmir. Operation Grand Slam was a logical move after the failure of the guerrilla operations.”

Civilian note: Mahmud doesn’t think Grand Slam was a bad idea. He thinks it was not ambitious enough — the army should have gone for Jammu and created a giant Punjabi pincer to gobble up the Indian armed forces. Total victory could have been ours! Oh, generals.

So, err, what happened next?

“The Pakistani high command considered the international boundary with India and the Working Boundary with the State of Jammu and Kashmir inviolable and expected its Indian counterpart also to regard it as such. From the inviolability of the international boundary sprang the policy of ‘no provocation’. Having had all defence works dismantled and the mines removed as part of the Kutch agreement, the GHQ forbade occupation of defences along the Punjab border on the eve of Operation Grand Slam to avoid provoking India into launching an offensive across the international boundary.”

You’re saying we left ourselves open to invasion, General?

“It is a matter of great irony that despite its forward assembly the Pakistan Army still managed to allow itself to be surprised by the Indian attack on 6 September 1965! The Indian build-up (as reaction to Operation Grand Slam), of which there were clear indications since 3 or 4 September, was somehow not taken note of. It was only after listening to an All India Radio broadcast in the evening of 4 September that the Pakistan C-in-C, Gen Muhammad Musa, reached the conclusion that Indian intentions were hostile. Then too the GHQ sent a rather ambiguous signal message to the formations.”

But the fight was heroic, yes?

“Apart from the sheer number of tanks involved, it is well worth asking if the armoured battles were really great by any standard? The fact is both sides lacked skill in handling armour at the operation level.”

In the end, we did get something out of it, right? Right?

“In the case of Pakistan, if it was solution of Kashmir, then we failed; if it was merely to defreeze the issue, then the means employed and risks taken were grossly disproportionate to the results achieved. In the bargain, we got a war which we perhaps did not want and could have avoided.”

So there it is. An official history by an official general in a proper book with maps and diagrams. But who needs history when we’ve got a war to celebrate.

The writer is a member of staff.

Gibraltar, Grand Slam and war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
 
You have confused the Kishangarh fort in Jaisalmer

KISHANGARH_FORT_JAISALMER.jpg


with Kishangarh fort in Kishangarh city

Google Maps


PA captured the one in Jaisamler

Accepted.
In reality that was "GOOGLE" who is confused and result in my confusion.
i searched on google "kishangarh fort jaisalmeer" and
that's the result.
The map which i have taken is on Right top. which was infect "kishangarh city"...
capture-20150830-214655.png

i wonder why Indians are not able to point this mistake yesterday ? As i "as a Pakistani" don't know that India have two kishangarh forts. but the Indians must know that. and should point such mistakes ASAP.
BTW, thanks for Pointing.
 
you failed to capture your jugular veins kashmir ...the main objective of 1965 war.

View attachment 251532

Lol, back in 1948, our tribesmen captured AJK, Gilgit-Baltistan (40-50% of Kashmir region) while fighting your regular army, it was your access to Afghanistan, Central Asia and had Karakoram Highway, still you whine about it constantly referring to it as Pak Occupied Kashmir, we control the most strategic area of Kashmir, bcuz of which you're dependent on Pak for access to Central Asia and Afghanistan.

BTW, we still control Chamb region in Kashmir which we captured from you guys in 1965 !!!
 
Man oh man Indians make me laugh so hard.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This Indian is actually quoting figures from "Indian Official History of 1965 War" released by the Indian Ministry of Defence P.319-321 and claiming that his information is unbiased while info from a book praised by famous foreign academics and historians is biased.:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
This document can be found on the BR website.:haha::haha::haha:

And Abdul Sattar is not some random guy, he was one of those guys who nailed Indian asses to the wall in the Tashkent agreement.:lol::bunny:
Uh oh now u spoke truth.. Sigh now the Indians are gonna need a heap of burnol. This is one of the main reasons Pakistan was even made. So sane people can escape from their lies and oppression
 
....................................................................................

Air Marshal Nur Khan is conducting pre-flight checks prior to a solo flight on F-104, dual seat F-104B is also seen in the background. During 1965 war, he personally visited PAF bases and airfields which were participating in the combat in an F-86 Sabre aircraft flown by himself.
10636395_715717705175352_4580828436044577626_o.jpg



A Destroyed Indian Tank in Chawinda. September 1965

10670035_715084055238717_2837928257439149784_n.jpg


Pakistani Soldier at Guard Near the Milestone (KM Stone) in the Captured Indian Town of Khemkaran. September 1965

10632877_715081181905671_1701177886622249720_n.jpg



Commander-in-Chief Pakistan Army, General Muhammad Musa visiting the captured Khemkaran Railway Station, India. September 1965

1601272_714947468585709_8727661818257932770_n.jpg



Pakistani Flag at top of Qaisar-e-Hind Fort.

10629720_714938541919935_911120410652467226_n.jpg


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