Islamophobic vote in Netherlands elections.

[Kompromat]

But pakistan isn't undertaking mass immigration are they? It's only western governments doing it. I am sure you would have a problem if millions of Christians immigrated to your country and started changing your countries culture and religion would you not?

It's the same with people in europe

The Immigration program in Eu or in any other country is Economically driven as the countries fail to produce enough workforce in their own society to meet the demands for next 50 years.

Pakistan is the 6th largest country in the world consisting on 180 Million People 45% of the population is under the age of 20 which means we dont need any workforce from abroad but when compared to Australia the Australia has a total population of 20 Million which is almost same as the population of Karachi alone.

All in all this planet belongs to human beings and these examples are pure racism.

 

[Canaan]

Muslims in the EU are approx 3% of the population, less than half of these practice their faith, so any talk about muslims taking over Europe is utter BS.
Some mention the high birthrate of muslims and immigration as the two main reasons, well several studies show that muslim birthrate is declining and looks more like the average birthrate within the local population, which is a natural effect of increasing integration into society. Regarding immigration, most countries in the EU have implemented strict immigration laws, and hence the number of immigrants from muslim countries is also declining.
The rise of Anti-islam or islamophobia is a result of several factors. Technology and mass transportation have made the world into a multicultural and globalized village, different cultures meet, and friction occurs. The muslim "Culture" or religion is the 2nd largest in the world, and hence it is normal that you would run into a muslim more often than you would with let's say a jew.
Apart from that, most wars today are fought in muslim countries, combine that with the western backed oppressive regimes in muslim countries, poverty and lack of job opportunities and you have angry and scarred people migrating to other countries, including Western ones.
The dismantling of the Sovjet Union made Islam the world's new bad guy. In order to control the populous, fear is a good tool, and hence they are fed with ideas that Islam wants to take over the world and end freedom.
Friction and prejudice takes over where ever these two people meet.

 

[Icarus]

They are crossing their limits but how come they have so much time for these things (jobless).

They consider it a noble goal for the betterment of the faith, they take time out from their daily activities.

 

[Icarus]

But pakistan isn't undertaking mass immigration are they? It's only western governments doing it. I am sure you would have a problem if millions of Christians immigrated to your country and started changing your countries culture and religion would you not?

It's the same with people in europe

Overdoing it. There are less than a million Pakistanis in U.K, less than 300,000 in the U.S.

And we don't really have a problem with our Christian population.

 

[indushek]

Pardon me but i think the media hype about Islamic Terrorism , every day in western media (atleast one paper prints about it if u watch and some TV program is telecast, there many hollywood movies on this concept) has brought about this situation.

 

[Ras]

The Immigration program in Eu or in any other country is Economically driven as the countries fail to produce enough workforce in their own society to meet the demands for next 50 years.

Pakistan is the 6th largest country in the world consisting on 180 Million People 45% of the population is under the age of 20 which means we dont need any workforce from abroad but when compared to Australia the Australia has a total population of 20 Million which is almost same as the population of Karachi alone.

All in all this planet belongs to human beings and these examples are pure racism.

Will you hold to the same belief if non-Muslims want to live in Mecca and Medina and propagate their faith there?

It is easy to talk when you are on one side. Immigration is fine and dandy and helps every country but immigrants should assimilate into the majority community not the other way around.This does not mean that the minority should change their religion but it does mean the minority should not try to impose their culture on the majority.

 

[Parashuram1]

Xdrive..if that is the case christian missionary must stop going to African/Muslim Nations..come to Pakistan check out Sialkot full of them preaching free.

funnily Muslims don't have magic to revert/convert christians in sweden to their religion. Talk about culture many aussies are in love with indian culture.

Lastly mass migration if could change Germany would have been a Jewish State or muslim state because of the turkish population. doesn't work this way.

You cannot call them preaching free, dear luftwaffe. Come on even you have to admit that there has been mass violence against Christians and in the most horrific manners in your country. The preaching network of Muslims is also very strong in Europe but because it is affecting the small demography of our countries, we get more affected. There's a big difference is we allow your preaching in all our countries and you barely allow it (of any religion) to properly go in one or two out of 56 countries.

Please tell me how many Islamic countries allow government level freedoms to other religion's preachings? Now that you said some parts of Pakistan, perhaps yes which is also equally scarred by violence against Christians.

I won't be expecting a free for all from Libya, Kuwait, Saudi, Egypt (Another known country for its violence against Christians), Central Asian states (rising persecution record). How many of state-established muslim countries allow the preaching work? Turkey is perhaps the only liberal country where people have the choice to change or not.

 

[Parashuram1]

But pakistan isn't undertaking mass immigration are they? It's only western governments doing it. I am sure you would have a problem if millions of Christians immigrated to your country and started changing your countries culture and religion would you not?

It's the same with people in europe

It is difficult for them to understand our situation. They think that only we are forcing them not to preach whereas you won't last more than an hour long if you run around demanding preaching your religion at a state level in any of the 56 countries.

Since migrants come to Europe, it is their decision to assimilate into our culture. Religion is a personal issue but when it crosses the line, frictions start appearing and that is what exactly is happening in Europe. We welcomed refugees from war-torn countries so that we could help them and then they start transforming our societies into what it never was. And when steps are being taken to change that, they call us fascists and racists.

I am not a Christian but I don't go about from block to block preaching my faith block to block in my country or demanding special community-based favours from my governments.

Geert Wilders is a bit too direct and a rather harsh I have to say but even if we reject his ways in any European country, a threat of demographic change does exist in Europe especially with certain communities rigidly rejecting to assimilate.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

More security, less crime, less immigration, less Islam - that is what the Netherlands has chosen.

The murder of Theo van Gogh didnt help. Following the murder of Theo van Gogh, a number of websites appeared praising the murder and making death threats against other people. Proscution of Duchmen that criticised Islam at the same time Islamic Web sites were calling for their murder didnt help. Then their were riots,,,stories of rapes by Islamic gangs that considered dutch women fair game because they were infidels didnt help....

Add to that the fact that Islamic groups were advocating Sharia law and their was a real fear by the dutch they might have to live under such laws.

A poll of June 2004 found that 68% felt threatened by "immigrant or Muslim young people", 53% feared a terrorist attack by Muslims in the Netherlands, and 47% feared that at some point, they would have to live according to Islamic rules in the Netherlands.

 

[Icarus]

Will you hold to the same belief if non-Muslims want to live in Mecca and Medina and propagate their faith there?

And how many Muslims do you see in Vatican City ?

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

I believe it is the Netherland's or any democracy's right to oppose Islam, and vice versa! They could both chose to negotiate their power positions through war, this is just political campaigning.

However, to reply to a few posts above mine (I coudn't read the entire thread), there are things we need to know:

- Muslims are encouraged NOT to go to lands where the Sharia (The Law in Christianity, before it was abandoned) is not the law. Economic benefits don't mean anything. There are only three cases where you could live in a foreign land: 1. being a scholar and disseminating knowledge, 2. being a student and gaining knowledge, and 3.anything that helps in 1 and 2. Some scholars believe that in the current times th only reason you stay there is if you're enlighting the people about Islam.

- If there, they obey the law of the land. <- This does NOT mean assimilating, assimilating comes from chosing to do certain things, law requires we do them. You do what is imposed and keep away from what you can from, if its against the Sharia of course.

- If the law of the land is hard on their faith, LEAVE the land, or if you are allowed the luxury (that secularism claims to afford) then negotiate your terms. With honour and within the legal framework. You're not supposed to wail, protest or cause disturbance in the streets. Of course, most Muslims are sold on the idea that they are equal citizens and that they could resort to whatever ways others could and do. Most of us are unaware that the Sharia lays down rules for us for living in somebody else's land. <- Even if we were born there!

- While or if you're unable to leave, subjugate yourself to the constraints imposed by the law of the land, and not let go of your faith.

However if the conditions have come to be as bad as the last point^ mentioned, and I'm the (an?) Islamic Empire, then I can come to the aid of Muslims living outside of me and unable to rejoin me, at the extreme by forcing a peace between them and their hostile host land by making a war with the latter.

PS: My knowledge is full of lacunas and i can't remember and quote references, sorry about this.

 

[Icarus]

You cannot call them preaching free, dear luftwaffe. Come on even you have to admit that there has been mass violence against Christians and in the most horrific manners in your country.

Not true, in the most violent incident, 5 Christians were killed in Gojra.

Please tell me how many Islamic countries allow government level freedoms to other religion's preachings? Now that you said some parts of Pakistan, perhaps yes which is also equally scarred by violence against Christians.

Anti-Christian violence is almost non-existent except for a few isolated incidents, on the other hand, educational institutions are working very hard to stop religious extremism from affecting the youth(under 20), which forms the largest age group in our nation, I remember when I was in 8th grade our annual field trip went to a local catholic Church to learn about Christianity.

I won't be expecting a free for all from Libya, Kuwait, Saudi, Egypt (Another known country for its violence against Christians), Central Asian states (rising persecution record). How many of state-established muslim countries allow the preaching work? Turkey is perhaps the only liberal country where people have the choice to change or not.

I agree Arabs are a bit paranoid, and I agree with the choice of the people of Netherlands, they have Democratically elected this man and that is due to a fact that there IS a problem, and that problem is us, the Muslims, we have to learn to become more flexible, we can't hope for the world to work as we want it too, sometimes you have to let others live like they want to.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I believe it is the Netherland's or any democracy's right to oppose Islam, and vice versa! They could both chose to negotiate their power positions through war, this is just political campaigning.

However, to reply to a few posts above mine (I coudn't read the entire thread), there are things we need to know:

- Muslims are encouraged NOT to go to lands where the Sharia (The Law in Christianity, before it was abandoned) is not the law. Economic benefits don't mean anything. There are only three cases where you could live in a foreign land: 1. being a scholar and disseminating knowledge, 2. being a student and gaining knowledge, and 3.anything that helps in 1 and 2. Some scholars believe that in the current times th only reason you stay there is if you're enlighting the people about Islam.

- If there, they obey the law of the land. <- This does NOT mean assimilating, assimilating comes from chosing to do certain things, law requires we do them. You do what is imposed and keep away from what you can from, if its against the Sharia of course.

- If the law of the land is hard on their faith, LEAVE the land, or if you are allowed the luxury (that secularism claims to afford) then negotiate your terms. With honour and within the legal framework. You're not supposed to wail, protest or cause disturbance in the streets. Of course, most Muslims are sold on the idea that they are equal citizens and that they could resort to whatever ways others could and do. Most of us are unaware that the Sharia lays down rules for us for living in somebody else's land. <- Even if we were born there!

- While or if you're unable to leave, subjugate yourself to the constraints imposed by the law of the land, and not let go of your faith.

However if the conditions have come to be as bad as the last point^ mentioned, and I'm the (an?) Islamic Empire, then I can come to the aid of Muslims living outside of me and unable to rejoin me, at the extreme by forcing a peace between them and their hostile host land by making a war with the latter.

PS: My knowledge is full of lacunas and i can't remember and quote references, sorry about this.

I belive in the freedom of religion,, that a person has a right to belive in any religion as long as that person does not infringe on the rights of others. Thank God the people that framed the constitution were smart enought to have religious freedom in the USA. I am not that religious but I would fight to the death to prevent some one forceing their religion on me or takeing away some one right to belive in what ever religion they want.

Nor would I take away any persons right to say what he wants even advocate violence,, but if someone acts on what that persons says then the person advocating violence is as responsible as the person committing the act of violence.

 

[Moorkh]

I wish you had said the same thing about america/canada which was inhumanly taken by the outsiders, the same thing goes to native australians/new zealanders. and off course we shouldnt forget the palestine. the migrants in europe at least are not invading it, they come there by work visa or claiming asylum, in both cases they dont have a say on their fate and it is the gov which decides.

what do you think the native americans would have done had they been able to oppose the europeans from migrating to the americas?

they would have stopped the europeans. now the europeans dont want migrants from the middle east to come and turn their country into something very different from what it is. and they CAN stop the migration. so thats what they are doing.

 

[Parashuram1]

Not true, in the most violent incident, 5 Christians were killed in Gojra.



Anti-Christian violence is almost non-existent except for a few isolated incidents, on the other hand, educational institutions are working very hard to stop religious extremism from affecting the youth(under 20), which forms the largest age group in our nation, I remember when I was in 8th grade our annual field trip went to a local catholic Church to learn about Christianity.



I agree Arabs are a bit paranoid, and I agree with the choice of the people of Netherlands, they have Democratically elected this man and that is due to a fact that there IS a problem, and that problem is us, the Muslims, we have to learn to become more flexible, we can't hope for the world to work as we want it too, sometimes you have to let others live like they want to.

Sir, I am aware that your country might not sanction programmes to specifically assault and persecute any community. That is understood and expected from any government of a country in 2010. However, the blame is attached due to the inability of a government to react to such situations that is what creates problems and often puts a black-mark.

I agree Arabs are a bit paranoid,

It is not just the Arabs, sir. Central Asian states have something similar like this too. This is about any ethnicity specifically hating another community but rather the mindset of a large section of a faith that seems to have been mistaken and therefore gives a bad name to the good followers of the same faith. It is common in all communities, but is getting dangerously high in your northern and western regions. That's all.

The thing that you mentioned here is about Arabs. Perhaps yes, but other countries don't classify you on the basis of nationalities or ethnicities and rather community. Whether one is an Arab, a Somali, a Chechen or a Pashtun, his discriminative approach towards another faith or action will be seen from the lens of his own faith and not because he belonged to an ethnic background in specific.

It is simply another criteria.

and I agree with the choice of the people of Netherlands, they have Democratically elected this man and that is due to a fact that there IS a problem, and that problem is us, the Muslims, we have to learn to become more flexible,

Most unfortunately, a very minuscule section of people think as far sighted as you, my friend. People as I see in this forum are quick to accuse West or any community in specific for all ills that take place in your region or even in Middle East but take little time to make a self assessment.

Had more people been thinking like you, the world would have been a less hostile place and better sense would prevail all those who are currently engaged in hostilities.