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Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

Not the common folks, not the common people .......... but you have no idea what damage did the assassination of Hazrat Umar bring.

Would you like me to tag our resident Parsi who can enlighten you with lots of things, that he boasts were borrowed from his religion?



What battles? Who told you that companions of Messenger Peace be upon him killed each other in battles? Were you there? Read Quran about stature and characteristics of the companions of Messenger first ....... and then try believing in a distorted made up history.



Who were the most devout companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?



@padamchen duck you.

Why are you calling a kaafir wazibulqatl into this enlightening discussion?

You know what I have always told you Islam actually is.

Its your forefathers finally getting the word (for the third time).

Pardon us for considering you slow ....

And there is no shame in borrowing from us.

When the two other prophets before yours did so too.

Of course Persian thought and theology would color Muhammad's world view.

Seeing as him and his people had lived for thousands of years under Persia's shadow.

Where Muhammad and his followers differed starkly from Jesus, Moses, and Zarathushtra before him was that Muhammad and the birth of your faith was highly political.

Even the schism in its infancy was a political power struggle. That got a theological garb over the following centuries.

You played your cards right. Finally. And caught a super-empire on its lwest point of the downswing. That's the bottom line.

And like all pendulums, it began its swing back as soon as the new faith was born, and we are seeing interesting things today as the swing is near complete.

Anything else I can contribute as an unbeliever do ask.

Cheers, Doc
 
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And there is no shame in borrowing from us.

Its not borrowing, its your corruption to a pure message that I am fighting here, with Muslims.

Thank you for participating. And according to pure Islam you are not Wajib ul Qatal unless you start oppressing helpless poor ........ which you did in past in your empire Persia.

If Messenger Muhammad had your world view, his companions won't come and defeat you. You know your this theory of being the first one, may hold some truth, but you didn't remain on the right path.
 
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Your questions about how to say salat and marriage are childish.
Lame flame baiting retorts and Reduced to asking questions instead of a factual reply already! Ch ch ch...Just proves the reason I didn't tag you in my earlier post dear.

Childish? Lol...That's what all nay sayer adolescents are left with, I guess, when they cannot respond with any substance to basic facts; try and indulge in unnecessary details to extend arguments and confuse the readers and all the while avoid basic facts that they have no answer to.

If not the details in the Sahih Hadiths and only The Quran is your sole source of information then how do you pray or perform The Hajj and bury your dead etc etc...Childish? Or Basic Facts. Lol...

@The Accountant
 
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Its not borrowing, its your corruption to a pure message that I am fighting here, with Muslims.

Thank you for participating. And according to pure Islam you are not Wajib ul Qatal unless you start oppressing helpless poor ........ which you did in past in your empire Persia.

If Messenger Muhammad had your world view, his companions won't come and defeat you. You know your this theory of being the first one, may hold some truth, but you didn't remain on the right path.

We (Parsis) have had only sporadic contact with the motherland over the past 1000+ years since we came to Hindustan.

If we were corrupt then, we would have been corrupt today. People essentially never change.

Do you know any Parsis in real life?

Many here do.

Ask anyone how corrupt they find us.

Cheers, Doc
 
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If we were corrupt then, we would have been corrupt today.

Do you know any Parsis in real life?

Many here do.

Ask anyone how corrupt they find us.

I am not labeling you for being corrupt in your practices, I find you straight forward and truthful, one of the reasons you are my friend.

I am talking about the corruption you introduced to Islam, what you called borrowings from your religion.

Lame flame baiting retorts and Reduced to asking questions instead of a factual reply already! Ch ch ch...Just proves the reason I didn't tag you in my earlier post dear.

Childish? Lol...That's what all nay sayer adolescents are left with, I guess, when they cannot respond with any substance to basic facts; try and indulge in unnecessary details to extend arguments and confuse the readers and all the while avoid basic facts that they have no answer to.

If not the details in the Sahih Hadiths and only The Quran is your sole source of information then how do you pray or perform The Hajj and bury your dead etc etc...Childish? Or Basic Facts. Lol...

@The Accountant

Give me till tomorrow morning, right now I am logging off. I will reply you.

And just because I want Quran to be supreme over everything doesn't warrant all sorts of conspiracy theories.
 
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I am not labeling you for being corrupt in your practices, I find you straight forward and truthful, one of the reasons you are my friend.

I am talking about the corruption you introduced to Islam, what you called borrowings from your religion.

Parsis (and other practicing Zoroastrians) cannot be asked or expected to be answerable for and take ownership of any Muslim on Muslim intrigues of your coreligionists, regardless of whether they were of Persian and recently departed Zoroastrian lineage or otherwise.

How Iranian Muslims explain their new adopted faith to themselves and/or the love they have for their new prophet but the undiluted contempt for his people/race and everything connected to it is really for them to figure out and answer for themselves as a people and a nation.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Not the common folks, not the common people .......... but you have no idea what damage did the assassination of Hazrat Umar bring.

Would you like me to tag our resident Parsi who can enlighten you with lots of things, that he boasts were borrowed from his religion?



What battles? Who told you that companions of Messenger Peace be upon him killed each other in battles? Were you there? Read Quran about stature and characteristics of the companions of Messenger first ....... and then try believing in a distorted made up history.



Who were the most devout companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?



@padamchen duck you.
If it comes to this then who told you that who were the most devoted companions of Prophets SAW? Were you there to check that were you there to verify that?

WHo told you that Hazrat Umar RA was murdered? You cant be selective in history. If history is doubtful to you then the whole history is doubtful and if it is not then you have to accept everything ...

As per your standards, I have not even seen Quran being revealed on Prophets SAW so should I start doubting on that too?

Your post smells more like a rat in Islam trying to create confusions and spread disbelief among Muslims ...

Regarding your Parsi friend, what is the proof that Islam took things from Parsi religion and it's not the other way around?

Lame flame baiting retorts and Reduced to asking questions instead of a factual reply already! Ch ch ch...Just proves the reason I didn't tag you in my earlier post dear.

Childish? Lol...That's what all nay sayer adolescents are left with, I guess, when they cannot respond with any substance to basic facts; try and indulge in unnecessary details to extend arguments and confuse the readers and all the while avoid basic facts that they have no answer to.

If not the details in the Sahih Hadiths and only The Quran is your sole source of information then how do you pray or perform The Hajj and bury your dead etc etc...Childish? Or Basic Facts. Lol...

@The Accountant
Now I am sure that this guy has hidden agenda of maligning Muslim faith ... He has no basis of what he is claiming but tactfully avoiding the statements which contradict his statements. We have to be careful with these imposters as they are trying to create doubt in the mind of innocent and less educated muslims
 
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Regarding your Parsi friend, what is the proof that Islam took things from Parsi religion and it's not the other way around?

Because the "Parsi religion" is 5000 years older than Islam.

And that's only starting with Mithraism and moving on down the pantheon all the way to modern Zoroastrianism which impacted Judaism, Christianity AND Islam. Not pre-Mithraic cosmolgy that dates back 8000+ years and earlier ....

Cheers, Doc
 
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Because the "Parsi religion" is 5000 years older than Islam.

And that's only starting with Mithraism and moving on down the pantheon all the way to modern Zoroastrianism which impacted Judaism, Christianity AND Islam. Not pre-Mithraic cosmolgy that dates back 8000+ years and earlier ....

Cheers, Doc

Parsi religion is apparently one of the older religions, Zoroastrians of Persia to be exact.

In my experience, I have mostly found its followers in my birth city to be soft spoken, educated and inward looking people.

I am surprised that longevity of life of a religion or its origins are being claimed as an argument that Islam may have borrowed from the Parsi. It may be a POV of Parsis but not necessarily a correct one.

Unfortunately, this can only be termed as lack of knowledge of any individual about Islam, nothing more, nothing less - why?

It is written in The Qur'an that Adam (AS), the first human created by Allah Subhan Taala and sent down to Earth; from Hadrat Adam AS to Hadrat Mohammed SAW, all are prophets of Islam without any discrimination. There are more than a hundred thousands Prophets of Allah ordained by him throughout the history of Man to guide the humanity.

So from a Historical POV, If anything, Parsi religion in its initial or original state may well have borrowed from the religion of Adam AS, even if its not a reactionary or derivative of Islam. So in all likelihood hood it's more about being that than the other way around but who cares. I only indulge to put the information about Islam clear.

I hope no hard feelings my dear Parsi friend from India, everyone has the right to believe in their religion and POV. Despite not agreeing with it, I respect yours completely.

Cheers Doc.
 
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Parsi religion is apparently one of the older religions, Zoroastrians of Persia to be exact.

In my experience, I have mostly found its followers in my birth city to be soft spoken, educated and inward looking people.

I am surprised that longevity of life of a religion or its origins are being claimed as an argument that Islam may have borrowed from the Parsi. It may be a POV of Parsis but not necessarily a correct one.

Unfortunately, this can only be termed as lack of knowledge of any individual about Islam, nothing more, nothing less - why?

It is written in The Qur'an that Adam (AS), the first human created by Allah Subhan Taala and sent down to Earth; from Hadrat Adam AS to Hadrat Mohammed SAW, all are prophets of Islam without any discrimination. There are more than a hundred thousands Prophets of Allah ordained by him throughout the history of Man to guide the humanity.

So from a Historical POV, If anything, Parsi religion in its initial or original state may well have borrowed from the religion of Adam AS, even if its not a reactionary or derivative of Islam. So in all likelihood hood it's more about being that than the other way around but who cares. I only indulge to put the information about Islam clear.

I hope no hard feelings my dear Parsi friend from India, everyone has the right to believe in their religion and POV. Despite not agreeing with it, I respect yours completely.

Cheers Doc.

Yup ok bro. I just entered here because I called.

We've had these discussions before ... and then some.

This is really not a thread for me, so I'll leave you Muslims to the finer points.

Cheers, Doc

P.s. Your Hazrat Adam is derived from our Mashya and Mashyana ....
 
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P.s. Your Hazrat Adam is derived from our Mashya and Mashyana ...
As I said earlier, it's the other way around as your Mashya and Mashyana are borrowed from Islam as in Adam AS and Eve AS.

According to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the largest religions of the world, Adam and Eve AS predate all others by any historic yard stick but yours.
 
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As I said earlier, it's the other way around as your Mashya and Mashyana are borrowed from Islam as in Adam AS and Eve AS.

According to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the largest religions of the world, Adam and Eve AS predate all others by any historic yard stick but yours.

How does the "largeness" of newer faiths negate the fact that they borrowed EVERY base concept of monttheist theology , to the T, from the world's first oldest and original monotheistic faith, Zorroastrianism (Mazdayaniism to be more accurate)?

Save for the Arab specific tribal lore and rules bit, there is nothing new in Islam.

As there is nothing new in Judaism or Christianity.

Because all three Abrahamic faiths came long after and grew in the shadow of the widest practiced monothirstmo faith of the ancient world.

You only have to see the territorial span of Zoroastrianism and the number of modern Islamic (and Christian) nations that were Zoroastrian to know what I am speaking about.

In essence, Abrahamic faiths of Semitic blooflines borrowed key concepts from the original Aryan faith.

And then set out to convert souls to the worship of "their" ethnic worldview.

Politically. Imperialistically.

Again not unlike the Persian empire and the Persian greats.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Because the "Parsi religion" is 5000 years older than Islam.

And that's only starting with Mithraism and moving on down the pantheon all the way to modern Zoroastrianism which impacted Judaism, Christianity AND Islam. Not pre-Mithraic cosmolgy that dates back 8000+ years and earlier ....

Cheers, Doc

You are self-contradictory if Parsi is monastic religion and you believe in that then why you are saying that Zoroastrianism impacted Judiasim, Christianity and Islam. If prophet Zoroaster received divine revelations then why can't Prophet Moses AS, Prophet Jesus AS and Prophet Muhammad SAW cant?
How does the "largeness" of newer faiths negate the fact that they borrowed EVERY base concept of monttheist theology , to the T, from the world's first oldest and original monotheistic faith, Zorroastrianism (Mazdayaniism to be more accurate)?

Save for the Arab specific tribal lore and rules bit, there is nothing new in Islam.

As there is nothing new in Judaism or Christianity.

Because all three Abrahamic faiths came long after and grew in the shadow of the widest practiced monothirstmo faith of the ancient world.

You only have to see the territorial span of Zoroastrianism and the number of modern Islamic (and Christian) nations that were Zoroastrian to know what I am speaking about.

In essence, Abrahamic faiths of Semitic blooflines borrowed key concepts from the original Aryan faith.

And then set out to convert souls to the worship of "their" ethnic worldview.

Politically. Imperialistically.

Again not unlike the Persian empire and the Persian greats.

Cheers, Doc

The word borrowed is incorrect as it is not borrowed but revealed by one true God Allah to all the prophets. Concepts are the same due to the fact that the God teaching those concepts is the same.

There is no difference between God of Judaism, Christian and Islam and most probably Zoroastrian God is also the same as there were thousands of prophets of Allah sent towards humanity ...
 
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You are self-contradictory if Parsi is monastic religion and you believe in that then why you are saying that Zoroastrianism impacted Judiasim, Christianity and Islam. If prophet Zoroaster received divine revelations then why can't Prophet Moses AS, Prophet Jesus AS and Prophet Muhammad SAW cant?


The word borrowed is incorrect as it is not borrowed but revealed by one true God Allah to all the prophets. Concepts are the same due to the fact that the God teaching those concepts is the same.

There is no difference between God of Judaism, Christian and Islam and most probably Zoroastrian God is also the same as there were thousands of prophets of Allah sent towards humanity ...

Yes you are correct.

Only He is called Ahura Mazda.

And yes, Zoroastrians believe that God reveals himself to different peoples when they are ready.

And a Prophet is born from within those people.

What the Arabs did to the Persians was gross disrespect of that one God.

For political gain. Simple.

No other way to word it.

Cheers, Doc
 
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...and the Zoroastrian Empire was established, endorsed and run waving olive branches, I'm sure.

What the Arabs did to the Persians was gross disrespect of that one God.

For political gain. Simple.
What Zoroastrians did themselves and to others around them to establish their empire and to ascend to the throne was what else but attain power and forcefully establish their rule, often building fire temples in captured territories to promote the religion. I am sure you call it peaceful conversion.

What the Persians did to their enemies was just as gross disrespectful to their one God too.

... and so got the same in turn when they were at the receiving end but but but

... not during the time of the Great Khulafa-e-Rashideen as they were protected by the exalted Muslim Rulers as minorities after the captured Persian empire. It was only later during the Abbasids rule that the real persecution of Parsis began.

Save for the Arab specific tribal lore and rules bit, there is nothing new in Islam.

As there is nothing new in Judaism or Christianity.

Because all three Abrahamic faiths came long after and grew in the shadow of the widest practiced monothirstmo faith of the ancient world.

You only have to see the territorial span of Zoroastrianism and the number of modern Islamic (and Christian) nations that were Zoroastrian to know what I am speaking about.

In essence, Abrahamic faiths of Semitic blooflines borrowed key concepts from the original Aryan faith.

And then set out to convert souls to the worship of "their" ethnic worldview.

Politically. Imperialistically.

Again not unlike the Persian empire and the Persian greats.

Cheers, Doc

Now now now, Why do you go ahead and accuse Islam and other religions of things like folk lore and what not dear, when I have sincerely and most respectfully avoided writing that about your own and merely pointed towards your obvious lack of knowledge about Islam compared to the Zoroastrian religion.

Are you not forgetting Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds?

Getting back to our little conversation without throwing accusations; Its your POV that Other religions borrowed from yours and so it is ours that other religions may have done that instead.

I have merely pointed at the fact that the religions with the largest following around the world have their roots in the religion of Adam AS the first created human, who we believe and recognize as the first Divine sent of Islam.

How does the "largeness" of newer faiths negate the fact that they borrowed EVERY base concept of monttheist theology , to the T, from the world's first oldest and original monotheistic faith, Zorroastrianism (Mazdayaniism to be more accurate)?

It is not about the largeness dear, you are having a simple comprehension problem. It is about your claim of being 5000 years old and accusing others of copying from that.

I am talking about being as old as forever, from the time the first human was created, Adam AS, that how old are the roots of Islam and religions like Judaism and Christianity dear...not just 5000 years old, you get it now?

Again, From the POV of the followers of the largest religions, Zaraostrians may well have borrowed form the religion of Adam AS or his descendants if not competed with his followers and descendants and may be a reactionary religion if not its derivative or alternate form. That is purely a historic religious POV against the POV of Parsis.

Leaving the accusations of who borrowed from which, you should be happy with your POV as we are with ours. If not, atleast be happy that we all believe in very first human beings as in Adam and Eve AS that you call Mashya and Mashyana and anything else we may have common in our monotheistic religions. Why bicker over our beliefs when we can rejoice in what is common and keep yearning to learn, seek knowledge and keep trying to find and achieve our own salvation.

The Quran is the word of Allah, The Creator of everything, you call Him by another name. I am sure you will find more similarities in there if you do a comparative study. ( It is only a humble and sincere suggestion.)

Cheers :enjoy:.
 
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