Islam has ‘no place’ in my country, says next EU president

[flamer84]

Currently whole of EU combined has less military capability than even Turkey

lol.You should read more

Even if Turkey does not directly interfere into your final solution, there whole rabble of Muslim countries: Turkey. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc etc could arm rebels in Europe with advanced Chinese (if Russia does not supply its weapons for religious reasons) weapons which they could easily smuggle into Europe under Turkey's mentorship.

One can not really smuggle weapons in Europe on a large scale with borders secured.

@AUz .....Once upon a time Islam reigned over Spain,Sicily and important parts of Central-Eastern Europe.It was driven out.Islam will be part of Europe when it will reform itself and act like a religion and not a Arab ideologic tool of subjugation.Many muslims will reform ,many won't and pay the price


@Oscar @Ulla and others.It's not only me saying this,nor is this my wish as I would like to skip a return to intolerance,violence and autoritarism in Europe,but if you would check ,you would see that reputed international Intelligence Agencies like Stratfor are predicting a violent show down in Europe in the coming years.

 

[Metanoia]

Well....he's kinda right you know....

 

[flamer84]

Have you read Baba Vanga predictions regarding European continent ?

I'd take Stratfor predictions over those of gypsie witches who see the future,thanks.

 

[SQ8]

l
@AUz .....Once upon a time Islam reigned over Spain,Sicily and important pars of Central-Eastern Europe.It was driven out.Islam will be part of Europe when it will reform itself and act like a religion and not a Arab ideologic tool of subjugation.Many muslims will reform ,many won't and pay the price


@Oscar @Ulla and others.It's not only me saying this,nor is this my wish as I would like to skip a return to intolerance,violence and autoritarism in Europe,but if you would check ,you would see that reputed international Intelligence Agencies like Stratfor are predicting a violent show down in Europe in the coming years.

Possibly the most pertinent post you have made about Islam in the west in general.
The issue has been a stagnancy in the migrants that came over and the general feedback of unemployment coupled with a sense of despair at the policies of the west against what they see as fellow Muslims. Again - the argument that many of AQ's and now Daesh's top lieutenants come from educated backgrounds ignores their social backgrounds. These are people struggling with a sense of identity and in the recent case of Syed Farook trying to regain a lost sense of purpose.

When entire neighbourhoods in Europe are living in isolation it is NOT just due to radicalization but the sort of immigrant you let in. Most of these people who come as immigrants come for a better life than their homes. That means a lot of them were already poor and many uneducated but they made it for survival. What they encountered was a mixture of culture shock and certain xenophobic elements(which is prevalent in every society from the Maori in New Zealand to Edge of Peru). These people who came in the 70's( as travel got slightly more affordable) both were enamoured by the society and also felt threatened. This was no different to any reaction to changing society anywhere in the world but these people reacted in isolationism the result of which are the various poor and rather bleak neighborhoods of europe you see today.


The solace to such bleak conditions is either crime or a sense for recompense and retribution which is found aplenty in religion. In addition, many of the flag bearers of extreme ideologies also came to the west in lieu of spreading their hateful message and many a times after being exiled from their homelands for threatening governments. So as such, Europe for a good part of the latter 20th century played host to every hateful message that any Arab dictator threw out due to their threat.

In a way, I guess Europe was oblivious to what it was letting brood. Ignorance is bliss or rather wilful ignorance is since many of these extremist preachers were useful against the Soviet supported dictators and regimes.

But from the fascination of France with Arabian/Algerian culture of the late 80's and 90s to this sudden issue of incompatibility is just ignorance of history. The explanation lies more into the social woes of those swayed by extremism.

There are fewer actual hateful people on all sides, and more so people reacting in their different ways to fear.
The future however is bleak for Muslims in the west as it was for the Jewish people of Europe since the combination of insecurity and social issues is about to be dumped on them by the leadership and the fearful.

 

[Yeezy]

Well Slovakia is a total shithole so I'm not sure if many people would even wanna live there. Most migrants have ambitions to live in Western European countries, they don't care for former Communist wastelands. Slovakia is often mocked in Hollywood films as being backwards and poverty infested (see Hostel and Eurotrip for reference).

 

[flamer84]

Probably.

But see Germany does not have a military to talk about (whatever they have is neutered by Allied imposed bureaucracy), so does all Scandinavian countries. Britian does not have an Army. Only French have a credible military in Western Europe. Actually, Eastern Europe put together may be militarily stronger than Western Europe minus France at this point.

I may be overstating for dramatic effect that Turkey is stronger than whole of Europe combined, but it certainly atronger than every country in Europe (probably bar France) and is probably stronger than Europe combined without France. Obviously I am not counting Russia and allies in this.

Technology is more important than numbers.European armies have defeteaded numerically superior Ottoman armies since the middle ages,I'm pretty sure they have no problem doing it now when they have a giant tech advantage.But,it won't come to that as Turkey won't intervene in anything.

They have done that in past -in Bosnia- about which members are boasting in this very thread. ISI has done this in Afghanistan and India. Iran has done this in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and PAlestinian territories. And Saudis and Jordanians are doing this in Syria.

One things that Islamic intelligence agencies are really really good at is getting weapons to Islamic terrorists, apart from having tonns of experience in doing so.

So your belief in impregnability of European borders may be misplaced.

A few AT missiles which didn't change the faith of the war.It's a lot harder today,with drone,maritime and satellite surveillance being what it is.And,you mentioned Russia in an earlier post as a supplier.Why would Russia want Europe to turn in a giant caliphate ? They'll just be the next victim.

Could you post that link. I am very interested in this European migration issue as it is a very important even in history occurring infront of our eyes.

This is a redux of barbarian invasion of Rome, Turkish invasion of Ionia/Anatolia, European invasion of new world, and Arab invasion of middle east happening in fast forward mode, and a case study in how a fundamentalist society with high breeding rate displace a liberal one which does not produce enough.Demographic decline has been second most important reason for fall of great empires in history; first being foreign invasion.

Sry,I'm bit lazy in the morning.Pls google "Stratfor European nationalism,Islam,muslim immigration in Europe,European nationalism" etc.You'll have to create an account to read their aticles but you can skip that by submitting a different mail per article,as to get it for free.Good luck.

Well Slovakia is a total shithole so I'm not sure if many people would even wanna live there. Most migrants have ambitions to live in Western European countries, they don't care for former Communist wastelands. Slovakia is often mocked in Hollywood films as being backwards and poverty infested (see Hostel and Eurotrip for reference).

90% of the muslim world will take 100 years to reach the current level of Slovakia.

 

[AUz]

One can not really smuggle weapons in Europe on a large scale with borders secured.

Lol, you think intelligence agencies and trained spies running organized networks won't be able to smuggle weapons into a f*cking continent?!?!

You kidding me, mate.

Any effort to 'cleanse' Europe of Muslims will burn Europe to the ground--and Syria will look like a peace dove compared to what will happen in Europe on mass scale if some idiots try to kill/cleanse 50 million people.

But then again, one of the most powerful and largest military nation in Europe is itself Muslim. No one in their right mind would go for "final" solution unless they are just a suicidal maniac.

@AUz .....Once upon a time Islam reigned over Spain,Sicily and important parts of Central-Eastern Europe.It was driven out.Islam will be part of Europe when it will reform itself and act like a religion and not a Arab ideologic tool of subjugation.Many muslims will reform ,many won't and pay the price

Yes, Islam ruled European lands for centuries--and was driven out from some lands. So what?

Today's situation is entirely different. Islam isn't a conquerer in Europe anymore. It is a social, cultural force--it's a part of Europe itself now through immigration, settlement, organic growth and what not.

In which world do you think "erasing" 50 million+ people is possible without destroying the existing civilization itself?

Hitler tried to 'erase' 6 million Jews that were a persecuted, hated minority anyways. They had no power, no state of their own, and definitely not as numerous and aggressive as Islamic peoples. That 'effort' ended up in destruction of Europe and 60 million dead.

Now imagine similar effort but against a people who are in 50 million+ numbers, are a part of a global civilization, and have tens of states backing em with military training, supply, and what not. That too, in the global, digital nuclear modern age.

Lol, any such effort will result in complete destruction of modern Europe at the bare minimum.

And what to you mean by 'reform' here? If you mean that Islam will face the humiliation of christianity and will utterly get destroyed in the name of reform--whereby accepting gay marriages, sex before marriage becoming normal, people stop believing in Qur'an(like they don't in bible), and in essence Islam becoming a complete joke like modern christianity--then sorry bud, Islam's too powerful and global for all that. It ain't happening (Inshallah!).

Yes, if you mean that Muslim communities will learn European languages, integrated into economies, and won't oppose "unIslamic" practices then this process is already here. Within Islamic Shari'ah (the law code)--as long as a state does not stop the practice of islam and even the spread of Islam--Muslims are ought to live in peace within that state as a minority--doesn't matter if state allows alcohol, gay marriage, and what have you.

So Islam itself is the source of integration here---as long as it is allowed to flourish freely and not persecuted or hindered by the non-Muslim majority. If anything, Europeans need to learn from United States in regards to how to treat Islam within their lands.

What's so complicated here?

Stop exaggerating the issue of Muslim integration just to justify your bigotry and your wishes of seeing a Muslim-free Europe.

reputed international Intelligence Agencies like Stratfor are predicting a violent show down in Europe in the coming years.

Stratfor also regards Turkey the upcoming major global power of the world. You agree with that assessment? lol

Stratfor is just a fancy fanboyish agency. Nothing more than that.

 

[barbarosa]

Islam has no need of place,The place it self invite to Islam, nobody can stop to Islam.

 

[Piper]

Possibly the most pertinent post you have made about Islam in the west in general.
The issue has been a stagnancy in the migrants that came over and the general feedback of unemployment coupled with a sense of despair at the policies of the west against what they see as fellow Muslims. Again - the argument that many of AQ's and now Daesh's top lieutenants come from educated backgrounds ignores their social backgrounds. These are people struggling with a sense of identity and in the recent case of Syed Farook trying to regain a lost sense of purpose.

When entire neighbourhoods in Europe are living in isolation it is NOT just due to radicalization but the sort of immigrant you let in. Most of these people who come as immigrants come for a better life than their homes. That means a lot of them were already poor and many uneducated but they made it for survival. What they encountered was a mixture of culture shock and certain xenophobic elements(which is prevalent in every society from the Maori in New Zealand to Edge of Peru). These people who came in the 70's( as travel got slightly more affordable) both were enamoured by the society and also felt threatened. This was no different to any reaction to changing society anywhere in the world but these people reacted in isolationism the result of which are the various poor and rather bleak neighborhoods of europe you see today.


The solace to such bleak conditions is either crime or a sense for recompense and retribution which is found aplenty in religion. In addition, many of the flag bearers of extreme ideologies also came to the west in lieu of spreading their hateful message and many a times after being exiled from their homelands for threatening governments. So as such, Europe for a good part of the latter 20th century played host to every hateful message that any Arab dictator threw out due to their threat.

In a way, I guess Europe was oblivious to what it was letting brood. Ignorance is bliss or rather wilful ignorance is since many of these extremist preachers were useful against the Soviet supported dictators and regimes.

But from the fascination of France with Arabian/Algerian culture of the late 80's and 90s to this sudden issue of incompatibility is just ignorance of history. The explanation lies more into the social woes of those swayed by extremism.

There are fewer actual hateful people on all sides, and more so people reacting in their different ways to fear.
The future however is bleak for Muslims in the west as it was for the Jewish people of Europe since the combination of insecurity and social issues is about to be dumped on them by the leadership and the fearful.

Everyone is hateful to some extent. Even I a PC Berkely grad and SJW carry that small tinder of hate for the Muslims,, the colored, LGBTs and even the yanks but that is just my primal basic instinct like the sugar pangs when i come across some delicious confectionery or an urge to leer at a well stacked biological specimen of the opposite sex.

The maturity of a character is displayed by keeping these instincts on leash and applying a moral filter before we translate them into action. This filter of morality is how we differ from each other.

For good of bad, Islam is not a evolving as per moralities of modern age which requires respect and consideration for all and it insists on carving out a small corner which screams Muslims in all caps where it exists. All this leads to self imposed isolation where ever they are in minority. Now there might be a few of who do co-mingle but to a great extent perceptions are negative.

The solution is quite simple - Islam has to evolve and ironically de-islamify if that makes any sense. It should be adapt modern age's sensibilities when it comes to interacting with people having different religion and culture. It should give women equal rights and not be so hostile towards people with alternate sexual lifestyle. Muslims also have to drop their pathological hatred for all things Semitic.

A few will not do, there has to be a mass scale self-realization and reform as other posters have said. The moderates can no longer be silent, they have to become face of Islam instead of ISIS and AQ of the world.

 

[flamer84]

Lol, you think intelligence agencies and trained spies running organized networks won't be able to smuggle weapons into a f*cking continent?!?!

You kidding me, mate.

Any effort to 'cleanse' Europe of Muslims will burn Europe to the ground--and Syria will look like a peace dove compared to what will happen in Europe on mass scale if some idiots try to kill/cleanse 50 million people.

But then again, one of the most powerful and largest military nation in Europe is itself Muslim. No one in their right mind would go for "final" solution unless they are just a suicidal maniac.




Yes, Islam ruled European lands for centuries--and was driven out from some lands. So what?

Today's situation is entirely different. Islam isn't a conquerer in Europe anymore. It is a social, cultural force--it's a part of Europe itself now through immigration, settlement, organic growth and what not.

In which world do you think "erasing" 50 million+ people is possible without destroying the existing civilization itself?

Hitler tried to 'erase' 6 million Jews that were a persecuted, hated minority anyways. They had no power, no state of their own, and definitely not as numerous and aggressive as Islamic peoples. That 'effort' ended up in destruction of Europe and 60 million dead.

Now imagine similar effort but against a people who are in 50 million+ numbers, are a part of a global civilization, and have tens of states backing em with military training, supply, and what not. That too, in the global, digital nuclear modern age.

Lol, any such effort will result in complete destruction of modern Europe at the bare minimum.

And what to you mean by 'reform' here? If you mean that Islam will face the humiliation of christianity and will utterly get destroyed in the name of reform--whereby accepting gay marriages, sex before marriage becoming normal, people stop believing in Qur'an(like they don't in bible), and in essence Islam becoming a complete joke like modern christianity--then sorry bud, Islam's too powerful and global for all that. It ain't happening (Inshallah!).

Yes, if you mean that Muslim communities will learn European languages, integrated into economies, and won't oppose "unIslamic" practices then this process is already here. Within Islamic Shari'ah (the law code)--as long as a state does not stop the practice of islam and even the spread of Islam--Muslims are ought to live in peace within that state as a minority--doesn't matter if state allows alcohol, gay marriage, and what have you.

So Islam itself is the source of integration here---as long as it is allowed to flourish freely and not persecuted or hindered by the non-Muslim majority. If anything, Europeans need to learn from United States in regards to how to treat Islam within their lands.

What's so complicated here?

Stop exaggerating the issue of Muslim integration just to justify your bigotry and your wishes of seeing a Muslim-free Europe.



Stratfor also regards Turkey the upcoming major global power of the world. You agree with that assessment? lol

Stratfor is just a fancy fanboyish agency. Nothing more than that.

1.You keep repeting the Turkey thing.Turkey can't /won't face a united Europe.The whole Ummah can't.

2.50 million won't be slaughtered.They're not 50 million to begin with.Many don't even practice it,many would abandon the ideology and join mainstream Europeans.Many will be forced to leave .Some will probably try to oppose this by force.....unfortunately for them.

3.We have nothing to learn from the US .Go teach China about tolerance.

4.I have my opinion ,you have yours.With the hope that nothing bad will happen to either of us in the next years,hopefully we'll still be here to see who's right.

 

[flamer84]

Islam has no need of place,The place it self invite to Islam, nobody can stop to Islam.

This is what I'm talking about.This medieval fanaticism must be crushed for civilisation to thrive.The modern world and "this" can't live together.

 

[takeiteasy]

I know of some towns in India's Kerala state, where the Christians (and Hindus) are stubborn against Muslim settlement. These are hamlets untouched by Muslims. These people fear that, with Muslims, the Mosques will be constructed and community will be formed. Then, the numbers will start growing and the host communities will feel alienated in 5-6 decades time. I personally had problems selling off a building in such a region in rural Kerala's Christian belt, where the locals prevented the sale of the building to Muslim citing the above reason. They chased off the buyer. There sure is great love these Christians, Hindus have for Sunni Muslims. Non-Muslims surely seems to see Muslims as enemies, without genuine reasons (most of the times).

However, in many places this is not true. In many places Muslim-Hindu unity is amazing and exciting to see. People vary from place to place. Perhaps, Turkish and European Muslims to be more culturally inclined to the European civilization than to the Arab Islam. They may be booze loving, non-fasting agnostic people? It seems like the Arabs and Syrians I've met never seems to be as religious as my local Sunni Muslim friends.

 

[Bratva]

I'd take Stratfor predictions over those of gypsie witches who see the future,thanks.

You will take them serious when muslims runover europe in 2045

 

[flamer84]

You will take them serious when muslims runover europe in 2045

Primitivism will never triumph over reason and civilisation.Not all the "inshallahs" and prosternations in the world will bring you the outcome you so desperately desire for 1400 years.

 

[barbarosa]

Islam has no need of the permission of any one to come or not.