Islam from the eyes of another

[Dubious]

1. Islam is not limit itself to personal belief. It controls the social life of its believers. That is why Muslims find it difficult to mix with other ethnic people

It isnt a religion it is a dean meaning a way of life...a practice

If Islam had problems mixing with ETHNIC people, it would have stopped and died in Saudi Arabia but it is the 2nd largest world religion so I think saying this is very wrong!

As per religious directive Muslims consider non Muslims as a Kuffir. They don't respect others, just tolerate them due to law and some other reasons

The Jews say the same...Jewish or Gentiles
The Christians call those who are "saved" and the lost sheep
So I am not sure how calling one who doesnt believe or one who doesnt believe but just in a different language be such a big issue while the gentile word is fine?

Many believe considering the Prophet as last , stops further developments reinterpretation of religion with time. Muslims are living in a mindset which was progressive 1400 years back but now a backward system.

Come again?

After prophet died, Islam reached its peak ....the fundamental research conducted to make the basis for further advancements that we see now (which needed a base you cant build anything without a base) was done after the prophet died...so I dont see this as a valid point

Muslims give importance to external process of the religion than core content which helps improving human qualities.

I may agree with this...many people pick differences and far fetched things which dont relate to their daily lives to pick fights...

Like praying 5 times a day is the core but one wouldnt pray 5 times a day as vigorously as they call others name which isnt even external process but just rubbish!

Muslims are trying to bring back a society which existed 1400 years back within then " backward" Arabs

I agree that is wrong

All Muslim related problems are Saudi funded or have Pakistan origin.

Can you justify this or just what you hear people saying?

Muslims plan to capture their country through over reproduction

You sure its a Muslim plan or just something you heard from propaganda sites?

migrated Muslims take all benefits of a free nations when they are there but in their own countries they leave no stone unturned to restrict rights and freedom of other people through draconian laws like law of Blasphemy etc

Do you know the word Blasphemy was coined by the Christians who waged crusades? The law itself is partially haram to be honest! It is not a core of Islam and can be proved by Spain still bring a Christian country with Christians and churches as old as possible and same to do with the Arab Christian population (I am talking about the past as proof of tolerance)

Migrated Muslims (half of which are asylum seekers coz they were a part of crime family back home - what mentality do you expect of them? The other half are uneducated.....What about the educated ones? Why no one addressed them because they nicely merge with the other population? But they are still migrants why not use that as your measuring stick?
Why paint everyone with 1 brush? Why not take an average Muslim why take the extreme?

Islam advocates for a completely male dominated society and do not consider women complete human beings

Does Islam advocate this? I believe Muslim countries have had a Muslim head but America so far hasnt.....Can I say America advocates a completely male dominated society?

Most Muslim believes that there can be no knowledge which is not there in the holy book. This makes them adverse to science and technology.

I have seen such threads regarding Hinduism can I generalize MOST Hindus believe everything is in Vedas?

Muslims are extremely worried with after life than the current life. They think it is only a small tough time only which they have to bear. They do not bother to improve this life.

I only know a very small portion with such thinking....not a majority infact such a small portion is rare since they dont care about this life nor wanna improve it they rarely make many friends...

BTW, dont monks do the same? priests? Nuns? No one points at them why?

Many of the above are not true. But these are popular perception. People who believe these are not typical antimuslims. Many liberals of those countries think in this way.

People who have met Muslims dont ....While people who feed off the media or live among smaller group of Muslims who happen to be doing this and these people dont get a chance to meet any other Muslim do think in this direction hence articles and threads countering this are a must!

To educate there is more out there than you bumped into in your town! We are like any other human beings who are diverse and have good and bad!

Muslims should prepare a sincere strategy to reverse these perceptions. I must say " We do not care" attitude is not a very good strategy in this case .

And when I create a thread based on experts look what results I get! People deliberately choose to side the article which is bashing Islam without any expert opinion without any backing but just coz it is bashing Islam

vs

Article which quotes EXPERTS in a given field + countering the arguments and showing what and how damaging such crap is:

What The Atlantic Gets Dangerously Wrong About ISIS And Islam

 

[Desert Fox]

The conversation was on a particular topic...I didnt think when you talked about following as out of the particular topic...

Well, you mentioned Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in your initial response to my original post and i only mentioned him (PBUH) in response.

Are all of them? Is it a Majority? Why did the police ignore it when it first came to their knowledge? I believe I posted 3 articles in a thread regarding this!


What about the Christian cross wearing and church going S.American? Why arent we using them as examples of Christians?


Happens in Hindu India....

None of the above is restricted to religion, then why single out Islam?

My point was, that even if most Muslims aren't terrorists they're still not following Islam properly as in the example of our Prophet (PBUH).

why single out Islam?

The title of this thread is "Islam from the eyes of another". This thread isn't about hinduism or atheism.

Like I asked again, is it the majority who are involved in these crimes and are they all ONLY Muslims?

No, of course the majority aren't involved in crimes.

 

[Dubious]

My point was, that even if most Muslims aren't terrorists they're still not following Islam properly as in the example of our Prophet (PBUH).

I agree

The title of this thread is "Islam from the eyes of another". This thread isn't about hinduism or atheism.

Yes but I am talking about generally why single out Islam?

No, of course the majority aren't involved in crimes.

And that needs to go around more often to prevent chapel hill like things from happening!

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

It isnt a religion it is a dean meaning a way of life...a practice

If Islam had problems mixing with ETHNIC people, it would have stopped and died in Saudi Arabia but it is the 2nd largest world religion so I think saying this is very wrong!


The Jews say the same...Jewish or Gentiles
The Christians call those who are "saved" and the lost sheep
So I am not sure how calling one who doesnt believe or one who doesnt believe but just in a different language be such a big issue while the gentile word is fine?


Come again?

After prophet died, Islam reached its peak ....the fundamental research conducted to make the basis for further advancements that we see now (which needed a base you cant build anything without a base) was done after the prophet died...so I dont see this as a valid point


I may agree with this...many people pick differences and far fetched things which dont relate to their daily lives to pick fights...

Like praying 5 times a day is the core but one wouldnt pray 5 times a day as vigorously as they call others name which isnt even external process but just rubbish!


I agree that is wrong


Can you justify this or just what you hear people saying?


You sure its a Muslim plan or just something you heard from propaganda sites?


Do you know the word Blasphemy was coined by the Christians who waged crusades? The law itself is partially haram to be honest! It is not a core of Islam and can be proved by Spain still bring a Christian country with Christians and churches as old as possible and same to do with the Arab Christian population (I am talking about the past as proof of tolerance)

Migrated Muslims (half of which are asylum seekers coz they were a part of crime family back home - what mentality do you expect of them? The other half are uneducated.....What about the educated ones? Why no one addressed them because they nicely merge with the other population? But they are still migrants why not use that as your measuring stick?
Why paint everyone with 1 brush? Why not take an average Muslim why take the extreme?


Does Islam advocate this? I believe Muslim countries have had a Muslim head but America so far hasnt.....Can I say America advocates a completely male dominated society?


I have seen such threads regarding Hinduism can I generalize MOST Hindus believe everything is in Vedas?


I only know a very small portion with such thinking....not a majority infact such a small portion is rare since they dont care about this life nor wanna improve it they rarely make many friends...

BTW, dont monks do the same? priests? Nuns? No one points at them why?

People who have met Muslims dont ....While people who feed off the media or live among smaller group of Muslims who happen to be doing this and these people dont get a chance to meet any other Muslim do think in this direction hence articles and threads countering this are a must!

To educate there is more out there than you bumped into in your town! We are like any other human beings who are diverse and have good and bad!


And when I create a thread based on experts look what results I get! People deliberately choose to side the article which is bashing Islam without any expert opinion without any backing but just coz it is bashing Islam

vs

Article which quotes EXPERTS in a given field + countering the arguments and showing what and how damaging such crap is:

What The Atlantic Gets Dangerously Wrong About ISIS And Islam

This is why I try and avoid you ^^^, both of you agree that most of those statements against Islam are false:

I found normal people who do not have any reason to think adversely about Islam think like so due to following popular perceptions/beliefs ( Not true always)

Many of the above are not true.

But instead of simply agreeing with him, you go on refuting each and every statement he listed as if he believed in them and needed to be corrected. Creating an argument that was never there.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Yes but I am talking about generally why single out Islam?

International media portrays the US and the Western countries as Islamophobic. However, in reality even though Islamophobia has increased since 9/11 it is still rare, which is why American Muslims don't view the US as negatively as foreign Muslims do, the majority of American Muslims are supportive of America.

The one thing that prevents American Muslims from fully assimilating into the US, is the brotherhood. Islamophobic media is a smoke and mirrors to divide this brotherhood by making Muslim majority countries believe that the US and West is extremely Islamophobic.

 

[Black Mamba1]

It isnt a religion it is a dean meaning a way of life...a practice

If Islam had problems mixing with ETHNIC people, it would have stopped and died in Saudi Arabia but it is the 2nd largest world religion so I think saying this is very wrong!


The Jews say the same...Jewish or Gentiles
The Christians call those who are "saved" and the lost sheep
So I am not sure how calling one who doesnt believe or one who doesnt believe but just in a different language be such a big issue while the gentile word is fine?


Come again?

After prophet died, Islam reached its peak ....the fundamental research conducted to make the basis for further advancements that we see now (which needed a base you cant build anything without a base) was done after the prophet died...so I dont see this as a valid point


I may agree with this...many people pick differences and far fetched things which dont relate to their daily lives to pick fights...

Like praying 5 times a day is the core but one wouldnt pray 5 times a day as vigorously as they call others name which isnt even external process but just rubbish!


I agree that is wrong


Can you justify this or just what you hear people saying?


You sure its a Muslim plan or just something you heard from propaganda sites?


Do you know the word Blasphemy was coined by the Christians who waged crusades? The law itself is partially haram to be honest! It is not a core of Islam and can be proved by Spain still bring a Christian country with Christians and churches as old as possible and same to do with the Arab Christian population (I am talking about the past as proof of tolerance)

Migrated Muslims (half of which are asylum seekers coz they were a part of crime family back home - what mentality do you expect of them? The other half are uneducated.....What about the educated ones? Why no one addressed them because they nicely merge with the other population? But they are still migrants why not use that as your measuring stick?
Why paint everyone with 1 brush? Why not take an average Muslim why take the extreme?


Does Islam advocate this? I believe Muslim countries have had a Muslim head but America so far hasnt.....Can I say America advocates a completely male dominated society?


I have seen such threads regarding Hinduism can I generalize MOST Hindus believe everything is in Vedas?


I only know a very small portion with such thinking....not a majority infact such a small portion is rare since they dont care about this life nor wanna improve it they rarely make many friends...

BTW, dont monks do the same? priests? Nuns? No one points at them why?

People who have met Muslims dont ....While people who feed off the media or live among smaller group of Muslims who happen to be doing this and these people dont get a chance to meet any other Muslim do think in this direction hence articles and threads countering this are a must!

To educate there is more out there than you bumped into in your town! We are like any other human beings who are diverse and have good and bad!


And when I create a thread based on experts look what results I get! People deliberately choose to side the article which is bashing Islam without any expert opinion without any backing but just coz it is bashing Islam

vs

Article which quotes EXPERTS in a given field + countering the arguments and showing what and how damaging such crap is:

What The Atlantic Gets Dangerously Wrong About ISIS And Islam

Today morning my company celebrated women's day. I was present there as company executive committee member.

Our CEO asked the audience about % of Women in Indian population. People guessed it closely varying from 47-50%. Actual is 48.3%

Then he asked what is the women population % in Pakistan? people went as low as 25% . The most optimist guessed it as 45%.

CEO told Pakistan's women population % is 0.3% more than India. Everybody surprised

I was talking about this perceptions which need to change

 

[Dubious]

This is why I try and avoid you ^^^, both of you agree that most of those statements against Islam are false:

1stly, I didnt invite you here! And stop seeing things ONLY from your POV! Broaden your view!
This is a thread for discussion not 1 sided talking! There will be agreeing and disagreeing but if you cant present a point then I dont think you should act childish!

But instead of simply agreeing with him, you go on refuting each and every statement he listed as if he believed in them and needed to be corrected. Creating an argument that was never there.

I explained them further I didnt argue ...Stop cherry picking!

look how he wrote it and hence why I answered:

He wrote

Many of the above are not true. But these are popular perception.

And so I answered why such perception exists!

Muslims should prepare a sincere strategy to reverse these perceptions. I must say " We do not care" attitude is not a very good strategy in this case .

And when I show I DO CARE...it seems to bug many like you @XenoEnsi-14 , why is that so?

Today morning my company celebrated women's day. I was present there as company executive committee member.

Our CEO asked the audience about % of Women in Indian population. People guessed it closely varying from 47-50%. Actual is 48.3%

That is good to know

Then he asked what is the women population % in Pakistan? people went as low as 25% . The most optimist guessed it as 45%.

Why Pakistan? Wouldnt Indonesia have been a better control? Just curious....

CEO told Pakistan's women population % is 0.3% more than India. Everybody surprised

I was talking about this perceptions which need to change

Errr...come again?

International media portrays the US and the Western countries as Islamophobic. However, in reality even though Islamophobia has increased since 9/11 it is still rare, which is why American Muslims don't view the US as negatively as foreign Muslims do, the majority of American Muslims are supportive of America.

Yes I am aware!

The one thing that prevents American Muslims from fully assimilating into the US, is the brotherhood.

Isnt that the case for the Latinos and many African Americans?

It isnt something new when you are marginalized you tend to stick with those in your own category!

. Islamophobic media is a smoke and mirrors to divide this brotherhood by making Muslim majority countries believe that the US and West is extremely Islamophobic.

I dont believe US and West is EXTREMELY phobic...But there are some phobic elements leading to cases like Chapel Hill and the more the media pours in crap the more these 1 off cases increase in numbers!

 

[Screambowl]

@Screambowl

1. what is mediation really?? does twisting one's limbs and sitting for hours straight-backed under a banyan tree ( yogi-style ) automatically bring genius into one's mind?? if so, for the millions from india who have done this since ages, where is their contribution to the world??

2. i would say hazrat muhammad went into the cave for some "me time", away from distractions of any kind, maybe waiting for enlightenment... this will not be meditation at all... so @Color_Less_Sky is correct that the formalized "meditation" has no place in islam, or indeed any scientific belief.

Their contribution is, they are not greedy for money, women, land, food, life style, ego, respect, all materialistic matter. This is what you learn from meditation and this what they teach. Hence no reason to initiate any war, or differentiating people in terms of nationality, race, color, knowledge. Which means more close to God. and came the phrase Vasudeva Kutumbhkam out of this meditation and concept of Unity and Nullity(Zero), whole word originated from one being. It is tough for you to understand this philosophy and it is good that you do not wish to understand either as wise people are less.

2. Life is a distraction of all kinds, which makes you circle around unrealistic matter and please stop asking for scientific reason and equation or mathematical model, i can refute your all argument in one statement being a science student, but it will be better for you to find out how would you write equation of getting scared in a dream. hence Meditation has no equation, because it leads to unexplainable experience. There may not be any place for meditation in Islam because people found it too tough to do. Unlike your prophet, that's why he was wise.

Let me rephrase that statement for you. Prophet Mohammad was a Prophet because of him being chosen and the Quran came to HIM because of this. Essentially god used him as a conduit to deliver the message and NOT because he was saying the right things(Quran) that he became a messenger.

While that is correct, his becoming who he was had both to do with his meditation and a unique characteristic to his humanity. To simplify the various concepts of theology and metaphysics that go in there:
His soul was engineered to be the best.. various interpretations of how this comes to be(or not) exist; I take it from the PoV of my education with emphasis on computing... so essentially if we take all of us to be AI.. our software and his were different. And while the debate will continue on God and Prophets, I take my faith from the underlying fact that if I am created, then the creator/programmer/designer also knows my system best.. or this entire simulation best.
The Prophet was not just chosen, he was placed there. Much like an iterative loop counting down to an event, he was bound to happen. So while the universe is still "free".. it is not. And this whole search that humanity has for a creator or lord has to do with our own futility in trying to create the spark of life. Not Dolly the sheep.. not taking an egg of one and engineered sperm to put in a womb.. but to create a being unlike any other and then spark it to life. That we have not achieved and that is the part of life that fascinates and scares us the most at the end.

This is the only wise and logical argument I have come so far from a Muslim. And this is the basic concept of Islam, that it is the nature which designs a soul to attain that level of enlightenment. No one becomes a prophet or get enlightened by reading a book. But then it is also possible for nature to design this soul again and again, as the building blocks remain existing. When? Is the question . One might achieve this level of purity within soul but would he/she become a prophet is his own nature what tells him/her. Whether one call this nature, Allah, or God, Bhagwan.. and this is my argument. That muslims should follow what Mohammad did. If not that level of enlightenment/knowledge , but 1% would make people wise enough. Because that is the path.

 

[xyxmt]

By breaking any rules we will never do any service to Islam. I appreciate your concern and would wish that you succeed. But does Islam really need our representation? It is all truth and anyone who seeks truth will find it no matter what world says or what you do...

Yes Islam needs our representation, if everyone had this kind of thinking like you do then our forefathers wouldnt have converted and we would be hindus now. I know you think that we dont need someone to testify how good our religion is, we know it but non muslims dont and trust me there are so many non muslim who wants to know about islam but dont know where to goto.

 

[Cherokee]

LOL .

 

[SQ8]

This is the only wise and logical argument I have come so far from a Muslim. And this is the basic concept of Islam, that it is the nature which designs a soul to attain that level of enlightenment. No one becomes a prophet or get enlightened by reading a book. But then it is also possible for nature to design this soul again and again, as the building blocks remain existing. When? Is the question . One might achieve this level of purity within soul but would he/she become a prophet is his own nature what tells him/her. Whether one call this nature, Allah, or God, Bhagwan.. and this is my argument. That muslims should follow what Mohammad did. If not that level of enlightenment/knowledge , but 1% would make people wise enough. Because that is the path.

Ill try this approach to explain this all.
The first thing that Muslims are supposed to say when they start anything is "Bismillah ar rahman ar rahim".. which means God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. The Epitome of that statement is the chapter of Al Fateha.. it essentially explains what that phrase Bismillah means best and it goes


[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds
The Entirely Merciful
Sovereign of the Day of Recompense
It is You we worship and You we ask for help.
Guide us to the straight path
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

So this basic concept outlines the Islamic faith.. the Epitome or Explanation of this particular collection of verses then, is the Entire Quran. It expands upon all of the concepts outlined within the above.

Now, the Epitome of the Quran.. the best explanation of it.. is the life of the Prophet. He essentially lived the Quran.
That sounds rather odd at first considering that the Quran was gradually revealed to him in the last two decades or so of his life. However, as I mentioned earlier if one stops sticking to strict definitions of interpreting metaphysical concepts.. and take it say as I do.. a computer program.. then the Prophet's life and the events associated with it were part scripted and part his own inherent programming(better than mine or yours. perfect). then the Quran was revealed as a pre-planned event.. the Prophet was to lose his son for which he was revealed a verse consoling him for this terrible loss.
For most humans, the idea that we are not in control of our lives makes us both scared and angry. However, the way this lack of control is explained to us by clergy is rather hollow. We are in control of our lives in similar ways the way we are in control of dropping a ball from a height. We know that it will drop.. it wont fly up, it wont go left or right.. it will go down; gravity compels it to do so..Yet we arent frustrated about the idea of gravity as much as the idea of not having free will or finding it futile to have it if everything is preordained. Which is why I used the concept of computer software as an example. The iterative loop will run, with an object(if you know OOP) behaving as it would within its parameters.. one of the parameters of this object then is its hope to get things(pray).. now that flag keeps going up that the object is requesting something to the programmer.. and when he wishes he will simply alter a single parameter and that iterative loop with its own characteristics will grant that Object what it seeks.
To get what I am trying to say you will need to watch "The history of the world in two hours".. what it will show is that supposedly serendipitous events somehow occurred that HAD to lead to Humans coming into being.

As for the idea of God, and its relation to self.. that concept lies in Sufism. There is a supreme power which one can call Allah or Ishwar...The Prophet attained it, and attained it best because he was engineered to do so by that supreme being. However, that does not mean that the rest of us cannot aspire to do the same.. examples of such people exist in Dehli and Ajmer.

 

[itachiii]

why is this thread not closed yet ?? while Forgotten Hindus in other parts of Asia was closed immediately ??