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Islam and punishment

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and you think what you say is what Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) said and thats the demand of Islam from Muslims. What wasthe need for Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to establish Islamic state and then caliphs (his close companions) did same after him ? Why did not limit Islam to personal domain instead of establishing Islamic rule, bait ul maal and also punishing people for not paying zakat.
Who are they? Mohamed (PBUH), his companions, old fellows. Unki to haddian bhi matti ho gain. This is 21 centaury my friend. We got new prophets, prophets of so-called secularism (it is another thing that they are clueless about exactly what secularism means) or secular-Islam. Kawwa chala Hans ki chaal, apni chaal bhi bhool betha. Listen to them for they'll tell you what is Islam and how it should be practiced.
 
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I think that his PBUH achievements were simply outstanding for all mankind. All that was great and magnificent. But the problem is that those concepts can be applied in today's world only be adapting them, or by gong back in time.
Dude to be honest Islamic concepts are not much different than western secular concepts if we minus few western things mentioned before which contradict with Islamic concept of morality..so if you minus certain things mentioned before from western secularism then rest of everything is very much compatible with Islam especially their concept of justice for everyone and welfare for common people and same laws for everyone whether powerful or rich, weak or strong etc
 
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Now can you please throw few paisa charity to this so called doctor for his unsolicited diagnosis .........

Me? I am just a poor rickshaw wala, Aali Sarkar. Aap oonchay log hein, aap he unko ko hadiya pesh kar dein meri taraf sey. Yeh gharib banda aap ko bahut duaeen dey gaa. :D

Dude to be hoenst Islamic concepts are not much different than western secular concepts if we minus few things mentioned before which contradict with Islamic concept of morality..so if you minus certain things mentioned before from western secularism then rest of everything is very much compatible with Islam especially their concept of justice for everyone and welfare for common people and same laws for everyone whether powerful or rich, weak or strong etc

Absolutely right! But where the issue comes is in internixing matters of State with religion. Seriously, tell me, which model is closer to the practices of Muhammad PBUH? The UK system or the Pakistani system. Overall. Please be honest.
 
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Now can you please throw few paisa charity to this so called doctor for his unsolicited diagnosis to shut him up .........
Foul language as usual.

@WebMaster @Secur @Slav Defence

Dude to be honest Islamic concepts are not much different than western secular concepts if we minus few western things mentioned before which contradict with Islamic concept of morality..so if you minus certain things mentioned before from western secularism then rest of everything is very much compatible with Islam especially their concept of justice for everyone and welfare for common people and same laws for everyone whether powerful or rich, weak or strong etc
Like I said, they are clueless about secularism. For them secularism mean that they must be allowed to do everything and nobody should question. More specifically, it is about wearing least amount of clothes (for women BTW) and sleeping with anybody at will, drinking alcohol and consume Khinzeer. A place where moral and social values mean nothing. Why you think OP is so much concerned about punishments? If I have done no crime, why would I be concerned about the law and severity of punishments? Stoning to death or 100 lashes, why should I care if I have never got myself into the immoral acts that render one punishable?

In key pait mein insanyat ka marod bila wajah tou nahin uth ta. Masla insanyat ka nahin, masla inki apni hurkaton ka hey jis ka yeh loug jawaz talash kartey hein. Allam Iqbal has said very well:

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It is not about Islam, no religion, be it Judaism or Christianity or Hinduism, or any other religion for that matter allows for moral and social ills.

The same seculars would defend anti-terrorism laws tooth to nail by saying "why should you be worried if you have nothing to do with terrorism", but when it comes to Islamic jurisprudence and punishments, they started getting knee jerk responses.

See, this is their hypocrisy and there goes the secularism down the drain.
 
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Absolutely right! But where the issue comes is in internixing matters of State with religion. Seriously, tell me, which model is closer to the practices of Muhammad PBUH? The UK system or the Pakistani system. Overall. Please be honest.
Uk system because Pakistani system is neither entirely secular not entirely Islamic. Pakistan is not role model when we talk about how Islamic system should be then western are more close to it if we take freedom of immoral sex, homosexuality, freedom of prostitution, gambling and certain others immoral(according to Islam) things out from their systems.. according to Islam not all choices are good for mankind as there is negative freedom which Islam forbid but western secular system allow it
 
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@Raja.Pakistani I am going to retire from this discussion for the simple reason that the so called doctor is bloody hiding behind some moderator here so my replies are being deleted. Otherwise I would rip this penny worth of doctor and by the time I finish with him he would be studying his own anatomy. Because like a coward he now hides behind a moderator there is no point in me continuing.

However before I go although I uttery disagree with you point of view however I hold outmost respect for you because you never became personal despite our differances of opinion.

On the 1947 I just see that as a historical event. How did we end up in British India in 1849? The British invaded Punjab and Sindh. To me 1947 is just a reverse of 1849. We became prisoners in 1849 and got our freedom in 1947.

Battle of Gujrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1849
Battle of Miani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1843
 
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@Raja.Pakistani I am going to retire from this discussion for the simple reason that the so called doctor is bloody hiding behind some moderator here so my replies are being deleted. Otherwise I would rip this penny worth of doctor and by the time I finish with him he would be studying his own anatomy. Because like a coward he now hides behind a moderator there is no point in me continuing.

However before I go although I uttery disagree with you point of view however I hold outmost respect for you because you never became personal despite our differances of opinion.

On the 1947 I just see that as a historical event. How did we end up in British India in 1849? The British invaded Punjab and Sindh. To me 1947 is just a reverse of 1849. We became prisoners in 1849 and got our freedom in 1947.

Battle of Gujrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1849
Battle of Miani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1843
Atanaz we are all brothers and Pakistani ..little bit fun or teasing is alright but we should not insult each others especially we young guys expect more maturity from you all senior so that we could follow your example. Differences exist even among atheist or secularist and they are fine as even two brothers don't share same opinions but problem is when we start hating others or get to the point when we even kill others for religious differences which is wrong and its happening in Muslim world. So I would say you, syed ali and syed ali haider say peace to each others even after all these differnces :)
 
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see you boht have two names common

syed ali :D

I can assure you, and your friend, and all others here, that I do not harbor any ill will towards anyone, despite name calling, personal attacks, quotes without credit or anything else. We are certainly mature enough to discuss differences of opinion honestly and frankly, or at least that will remain my assumption.

Now may we please get back to the topic: If the UK system is closer to what you prefer, how can we get the Pakistani system to move in that direction, given that what @TankMan proposes is simply not realistic. Or do you wish to disagree on that and tell me how is it possible to get today's ulema to agree on any common grounds?
 
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Peace to everyone, rickshaw walas like me excluded, of course. :D

And Syed nothing wrong with rickshaw walas. We should respect any man ( women ) that does hard work. To me a porter, a cleaner, a nurse, a doctor, a consultant are all the same. I never lower myself to anybody and on the contrary don't expect anybody else to lower themselves.

We should look at all as equal ....

@Raja.Pakistani Yes, of course at the end of day I know you will stand by me and vice versa despite our differances. Respect and good evening .....

and to the Syed the Rickshaw Wala as well .....
 
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I am probably older then you so will get in first . See you there .....

I ain't no spring chicken either dude. Luckily, it is not for you or me or anyone else to determine when we get there, except the Almighty. Of course, if I do not get the death penalty first for some perceived violation of some strict religious law or the other, the topic of this thread. :D
 
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I ain't no spring chicken either dude. Luckily, it is not for you or me or anyone else to determine when we get there, except the Almighty. Of course, if I do not get the death penalty first for some perceived violation of some strict religious law or the other, the topic of this thread. :D

Me, I am not even a autumn chicken so there !!! You got good sense of humour, nice to see that.

@Raja.Pakistani Read this

It was truly unfortunate that they happened to born to Muslim parents and I am sure they regretted that miserable moment,
This is what he said that I cannot forgive. He questioned my parents. I don't forgive people for that and he then hid under the moderators skirt.
 
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