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ISIS declares ‘caliphate’

Our Martin Luthers are scared to speak out, no doubt we have many. Many Muslims prefer not to take sides in this battle but it hard not to when they face reprisals from crazies anyway. Just look at Iraq the Shias will now do attacks on Sunnis who may not want to fight at all which will lead to more Sunnis joining ISIS followed by attacks on Shias who may not want anything to do with the conflict who will then feel the need to join Shia militias.

Now? Mate, Shia militias have been terrorizing/displacing Iraqi Sunni Arabs since 2003. From Basra to Baghdad (a Sunni majority city traditionally). The whole current Iraqi regime is a sectarian non-inclusive regime. That's why the vast majority of the Sunni Arabs have risen up against Al-Maliki either directly or passively.

Only a inclusive ruler can succeed in Iraq as the religious makeup of the country is too complex and no group has a clear majority.

Nothing to do with the topic, I know, just had to comment on it.

Also ISIS is mostly killing Iraqi Sunni Arabs. The regions inhabited by Iraqi Sunni Arabs suffer more from ISIS than vice versa.

The Sunnis are basically trapped between two trash.
 
Our Martin Luthers are scared to speak out, no doubt we have many. Many Muslims prefer not to take sides in this battle but it hard not to when they face reprisals from crazies anyway. Just look at Iraq the Shias will now do attacks on Sunnis who may not want to fight at all which will lead to more Sunnis joining ISIS followed by attacks on Shias who may not want anything to do with the conflict who will then feel the need to join Shia militias.

Martin luther did more than just "protest" (i.e. form new religion)

He tapped into and emphasized on "work ethic" of his fellow Germans.

He emphasized on being thrifty with money.

And thus Germans became hard working savers, and so many centuries ago.

our reformers just cry about religious shenanigans

With no emphasis on work ethic.
 
Our Martin Luthers are scared to speak out, no doubt we have many. Many Muslims prefer not to take sides in this battle but it hard not to when they face reprisals from crazies anyway. Just look at Iraq the Shias will now do attacks on Sunnis who may not want to fight at all which will lead to more Sunnis joining ISIS followed by attacks on Shias who may not want anything to do with the conflict who will then feel the need to join Shia militias.

Being a Sunni or Shia is political choice. Not a religious one. As a Sunni, i automatically pick side with Umayyads.
1400 years old political issues dominated Muslim world more than Quran itself.

It is longer about Quran or hadith, but rather about politics. And most Muslims enter this conflict without knowing what's that about. Example: a British brainwashed teenager with muslim background get wasted in Syria because of Saudi-Iran conflict.

Europe doesnt give that boy what he really needs, neither Islam. Vilified by Europeans, brainwashed by brainwashed Imams, lives are wasted for nothing. I hear those waaz khutba during Juma prayers. Imams are stupid.
 
Being a Sunni or Shia is political choice. Not a religious one. As a Sunni, i automatically pick side with Umayyads.
1400 years old political issues dominated Muslim world more than Quran itself.

It is longer about Quran or hadith, but rather about politics. And most Muslims enter this conflict without knowing what's that about. Example: a British brainwashed teenager with muslim background get wasted in Syria because of Saudi-Iran conflict.

Europe doesnt give that boy what he really needs, neither Islam. Vilified by Europeans, brainwashed by brainwashed Imams, lives are wasted for nothing. I hear those waaz khutba during Juma prayers. Imams are stupid.

well said.

Both Sunni politics and shia politics is rotten to the core.
 
For those who want to talk about a Caliphate in its traditional form applied in year 2014 should maybe rather worry about the largely pathetic state of the Muslim world today and for centuries before and solve some of those giant and numerous problems that exist and have existed for centuries and which are solvable if hard work, dedication and sanity prevails.

There is a reason why the West has controlled by far most of the world for the past 500 years and shaped nearly all of our modern age. The Muslim/Eastern world did that for millenniums before largely so it's possible to do it again. Even during Islamic history those previous Caliphates I mentioned are a living proof of it being possible.

It's pretty symbolic that all the claimants of the Caliphate have been nothing more than trash. Pretty accurate as to the overall state of the Muslim world that they claim to represent!

No need to delude oneself anymore.

I understand that Pakistan was founded upon Islamic principles and all that but sometimes one need to be realistic.

Not so sure about that part.

See, the Western World were not very advanced in the past to begin with. But they were enterprising. They went around the world, gathered knowledge from all known civilizations (including the ones in the Middle East), combined that knowledge, and created the modern world that we know today. The Industrial Revolution was the most important stage for the world, and that knowledge for that came from that enterprising spirit. People like Newton, Descartes, Beethoven, and many great individuals were truly enlightened people.

The civilizations of the Middle East went through turbulent times. The Moghuls who used to rule my part of the world were brainless barbarians. Not a great place for enlightenment.

And now, we are here. We have come very far. But I feel the Western World could have done more. The pace at which they went in the past is not so much as it is now. The space frontier for instance has made little progress.

Can an Islamic Caliphate be applied today? First off, what is a Caliphate? Is there enough evidence that it'd practically work? Theory and practice are very different things. It is not really well researched in the fields of political science. So, there isn't much of a framework there. Yes, I do believe democracy and Islam can co-exist. Nothing to learn from those ISIS thugs.

That is why most countries (including non-Muslim) implement a relatively secular framework because it is simple and easy to implement. Can religious parties exist? Yes. There are the Christian Democrats in Europe and the Tea Party in the USA. Nothing wrong with having Islamic parties in a Muslim-majority nation (though, they are often immature compared to their Western counterparts).

What Muslim-majority nations can best do right now, in my opinion is simply progress the best they can (individually), and slowly move toward matured Democracies. As for a Caliphate, it'd take more than a bunch of madmen with blazing guns to prove hypotheses.
 
@Loki

I mainly implied the Pre-Islamic period as well. But it's a fact that the early Caliphates were the most powerful empires/civilizations at their time. Since that time the Islamic world never held this position.

I already wrote myself that the West has dominated the world entirely (more or less) for the past 500 years. This is slowly changing as the non-Western world is starting to develop more and more after centuries of largely darkness.

Of course the Europeans took ideas from past civilizations. Without them they would not have ended up where they are now. But that is very normal. Every civilization learns something from its predecessors etc.

I mostly fully agree with your last statements.
I am happy that I am not the only one that finds this topic absurd in the current state the Muslim world is in and in the time and age we live in.
 
@Loki

I mainly implied the Pre-Islamic period as well. But it's a fact that the early Caliphates were the most powerful empires/civilizations at their time. Since that time the Islamic world never held this position.

I already wrote myself that the West has dominated the world entirely (more or less) for the past 500 years. This is slowly changing as the non-Western world is starting to develop more and more after centuries of largely darkness.

Of course the Europeans took ideas from past civilizations. Without them they would not have ended up where they are now. But that is very normal. Every civilization learns something from its predecessors etc.

I mostly fully agree with your last statements.
I am happy that I am not the only one that finds this topic absurd in the current state the Muslim world is in and in the time and age we live in.

you ever wonder which civilization(s) was/were dominating the world before caliphate? and for how long?
 
only Imam Ali Ibn AbiTaleb and the Imam Hassen Ibn Ali and then Imam Hosain Ibn Ali and his son and descends ( technically , our 12 Imam are rightful khalifa )

and all of them are from Quraish and have closest blood relationship with Hazrat Muhammad (Pbuh)

Yeah how about no.

only Imam Ali Ibn AbiTaleb and the Imam Hassen Ibn Ali and then Imam Hosain Ibn Ali and his son and descends ( technically , our 12 Imam are rightful khalifa )

and all of them are from Quraish and have closest blood relationship with Hazrat Muhammad (Pbuh)

Yeah how about no.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! You guys are F*CKED !!! Your kooks are getting kookier and their numbers are just exploding ( no pun intended). Did you ever stop for a second and ask yourself...'WTF are we doing' ?:rofl:
 

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