ISI to have more civilians at the top

[Sheikh Rauf]

wajid Zia, Bilal rasool are also "Bloody Civilians" i bet they secretly handed out info to MNS

they are not DG.. and they sudnt be till civilian raiz its standard. simple is that you guys cant calmly argue and wanted to run ISI. i sud stay away its a serious business which we need to keep it away from politicians.

 

[Burhan Wani]

the main point is giving civilians further authority in sensitive posts.

Then from where you will find professionals like CA, Geologist, Pharmacist, Artist, Musician and Cyber security engineers to fulfill your requirements?
PMA can only produce soldiers not above mentioned professionals. Trust me there are still many civilians working in intelligence agencies within sensitive posts.

 

[Sine Nomine]

They are low level operations. If they fail, others can be sent. They have volunteered for it, good on them. Pay them highly if you must and that's it.

My foot lower level ops,just tell me two type of Intel.
Kid,those who have spent there lives planning, coordinating and excuteing these ops in younger days have every right down the road to command and instruct others in older days,you can't match experience,no matter if even you are from US Army.CIA has wrecked havoc on US enemies, because in there only Master of Art is put in charge.

 

[Amaa'n]

Sir, is it so hard to understand that those computer engineers don't need to be given management positions with authority and access?
.

you really have noooo idea what you are talking about, do you my friend??
good luck getting approval from Brigadier sb for replacing your GPU from gaming series to professional Quadra FX series -- because to him GPU is a GPU, right? why would we be need FX for rendering? now as you say he may need some time to pick up on things --- but the fact is by that that he will be sent back for next assignment with next department ------ so when next Officer comes in ---- you start from the scratch

plus Brigadier sb will be more worried about spending his time and get that pat on the shoulder & look a head for Board -- & do know that Military officers are posted on Temporary basis while Civilians are Permanent ----- they may be well aware of the depth & dynamics of the situation then the military officer

 

[Sine Nomine]

Sir, is it so hard to understand that those computer engineers don't need to be given management positions with authority and access?

.
So for managing those affairs,which are realated to Computers,but are sensitive.I should depute a person in uniform,whose only Qualification is uniform and down the Road directorate will be ruined.
Excuse me from is BS.
Civilian in ISI are just Gunslingers with diplomatic approach.
@balixd

 

[Burhan Wani]

Bro its good have civilian in everywhere but when its backing by politicians you cant trust look at your state bank your cities your zakat funds your PIA railway and etc you have to higher your civilian standard first before you involve any. there are more civilian in ISI than you can compare. But supervision sud be under Army.

If politician have authority to change DG ISI then what can you more expect from them. ISI and other agencies are under GOP and without induction of civilians in intelligence agencies you cannot expand your capabilities.
I am telling you there are still many departments in our intelligence agencies who are working as managed services, supervised by civilians and authorized by Intelligence agencies.

 

[Amaa'n]

Then from where you will find professionals like CA, Geologist, Pharmacist, Artist, Musician and Cyber security engineers to fulfill your requirements?
PMA can only produce soldiers not above mentioned professionals. Trust me there are still many civilians working in intelligence agencies within sensitive posts.

what he is saying is that keep civies limited to BPS 19, they shouldn't be allowed to go further as it effects the integrity of OPSEC ---- which i think is bull crap & don't agree with --- because as i explained above, Military commanders can't just handle that -----

 

[CriticalThought]

you really have noooo idea what you are talking about, do you my friend??
good luck getting approval from Brigadier sb for replacing your GPU from gaming series to professional Quadra FX series -- because to him GPU is a GPU, right? why would we be need FX for rendering? now as you say he may need some time to pick up on things --- but the fact is by that that he will be sent back for next assignment with next department ------ so when next Officer comes in ---- you start from the scratch

plus Brigadier sb will be more worried about spending his time and get that pat on the shoulder & look a head for Board -- & do know that Military officers are posted on Temporary basis while Civilians are Permanent ----- they may be well aware of the depth & dynamics of the situation then the military officer

.
So for managing those affairs,which are realated to Computers,but are sensitive.I should depute a person in uniform,whose only Qualification is uniform and down the Road directorate will be ruined.
Excuse me from is BS.
Civilian in ISI are just Gunslingers with diplomatic approach.
@balixd

So what you are telling me is we need to raise the quality of our brigadiers.

 

[Soldier-Boy]

By Inducting civilians in ISI can enhance capabilities of intelligence agency in many factors. For example if you want to create finance Division in ISI to monitor black money and money laundering then you need expertise related to finance, Audit and Economy which you can never find in Pakistan Defence Forces. Similarly if you want to create Cyber Intel Division then you need top professionals with decades of experience in Cyber security and Information technology etc.
I appreciate this step and ISI should induct more professionals without outsourcing their departments to minimize risk.

PMLN doing this to create moles in ISSI for them, they are not doing any favor to the agency.

 

[Amaa'n]

So what you are telling me is we need to raise the quality of our brigadiers.

No !!!! that is what YOU have been saying ----- how else a Manager who has Bachelors going to lead a team of Ph.Ds?

 

[CriticalThought]

No !!!! that is what YOU have been saying ----- how else a Manager who has Bachelors going to lead a team of Ph.Ds?

Take a deep breath and think. You are as much guilty of closed mindedness as the brigadiers you are accusing.

 

[Sine Nomine]

So what you are telling me is we need to raise the quality of our brigadiers.

We don't have need for raising there fu@king Quality,they are already Master of there field but putting them in that field most of times doesn't makes any sense or fails to yield desired outcome.

 

[CriticalThought]

We don't have need for raising there fu@king Quality,they are already Master of there field but putting them in that field most of times doesn't makes any sense or fails to yield desired outcome.

Creativity, adaptability, thinking on your feet, picking up new knowledge as you go, these are all qualities that can at least be filtered for, if not inculcated into officers from the start.

 

[Burhan Wani]

what he is saying is that keep civies limited to BPS 19, they shouldn't be allowed to go further as it effects the integrity of OPSEC ---- which i think is bull crap & don't agree with --- because as i explained above, Military commanders can't just handle that -----

BPS 19 are mostly Directors supervising many teams lead by Deputy Directors BPS 18. So if your requirement is to establish Cyber Crime Department who will be the most suitable Director. A person who have 12-15 year experience at Juniper/Cisco/Huawei in related department Network Security will be more better or LT Col SSG Zarrar Unit?
Obviously Network professional.

PMLN doing this to create moles in ISSI for them, they are not doing any favor to the agency.

If any one have such desires they will be blown into pieces before planning this idea.

 

[Amaa'n]

Take a deep breath and think. You are as much guilty of closed mindedness as the brigadiers you are accusing.

believe me, am calm as hell --- just enjoying my tea break ---- I have a really open mind, that is why am speaking out of personal experience & making this forum aware of ground reality ----- each individual in our establishment have their own role to play, each brings something different to the table ---- Brigadier sb did not get those Patches just like that , taking a walk in the park, he earned that patch hard ---- & you put him where he actually fits correctly