ISI spying in USA

[muse]

Agnostic

It cannot be that the FBI suddenly stumbled on his failure to disclose the source of the funds with which his Kashmiri American Council (KAC HomePage) organised conferences and seminars on the Kashmir issue, right under the nose of the U.S. establishment. It is more plausible that the Fai arrest, days after the ISI director-general Lt. General Shuja Pasha's visit to the U.S., was a message to the Pakistan military to tone down its high anti-American rhetoric of recent weeks. From the Raymond Davis arrest in Lahore to Dr. Fai's arrest from his home in Virginia, Pakistan and the United States have given a copybook demonstration of how they do business with each other.

The above quote is from an editorial published in the Hindu -- now if it's just that clear what this is really about in India, why are we bothering responding to every silly smear, plus it's from the NYT, is there any bigger signal that it is "US intelligence community" production?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The Pakistani Consulate staff passing themselves as Feds to intimidate ex-pats,in my opinion is breaking the law.

sure it is; as is a spy-cum-rambo posing as a ''contactor''

works both ways


whether its ''espionage'' or ''facts-gathering'' or ''other interests'' allies and foes do it all the time. How many ''mossad spies'' has the US uncovered and quietly ''repatriated'' time and time again

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

This is yet another ham handed smear campaign to discredit and malign the PA/ISI, this time attempted at influencing the expatriate Pakistani population. And it is no wonder that, yet again, it is the propaganda mouthpiece of the US establishment, the NYT, that is main institution propagating this smear campaign.

well we can all agree that for political reasons, Pakistan is being ''punished'' or ''snubbed'' for not towing along their lines completely --especially on the Afghanistan front (where interestingly, we were chided for trying to ''iron out'' differences with certain taleban factions whereas they have been in negotiations and had direct contact with them for quite some time now)

of course you cant leave out the RD saga, in which the American government was caught with its pants down while the weakness of Pakistan government (in the face of inexorable pressure) was exposed; the ''reduction'' in CIA contractors and FC trainers not to mention --the arrest of one Dr. Afridi.

this is all well-timed politics being played out.....and indeed coming at a time of Pakistani non-compliance on certain matters.

a lot has indeed changed in just the past year, let alone since the beginning of the ''global war on terrorism'' when --under the previous administration --at least our sacrifices (supreme ones) were being recognized. Now it's an all out tug-of-war, psyops, and an environment of mis-information that serves two purposes

a.) a spicy story one after the other, for consumption of consumers

b.) a way to use media and ''official statements'' to apply pressure on Pakistan --especially at a time when it is increasing cooperation (civilian, military) with China, re-affirming some pipeline deals with Iran, and preparing itself for a drawdown of NATO troops in Afghanistan while having to deal with the immediate after affects that are/will take place.



the relationship seems to be going from soured -- to toxic....unless there's a major paradigm shift, i dont see any sudden reverse of this trend.

 

[AAtish]

well we can all agree that for political reasons, Pakistan is being ''punished'' or ''snubbed'' for not towing along their lines completely --especially on the Afghanistan front (where interestingly, we were chided for trying to ''iron out'' differences with certain taleban factions whereas they have been in negotiations and had direct contact with them for quite some time now)

of course you cant leave out the RD saga, in which the American government was caught with its pants down while the weakness of Pakistan government (in the face of inexorable pressure) was exposed; the ''reduction'' in CIA contractors and FC trainers not to mention --the arrest of one Dr. Afridi.

this is all well-timed politics being played out.....and indeed coming at a time of Pakistani non-compliance on certain matters.

a lot has indeed changed in just the past year, let alone since the beginning of the ''global war on terrorism'' when --under the previous administration --at least our sacrifices (supreme ones) were being recognized. Now it's an all out tug-of-war, psyops, and an environment of mis-information that serves two purposes

a.) a spicy story one after the other, for consumption of consumers

b.) a way to use media and ''official statements'' to apply pressure on Pakistan --especially at a time when it is increasing cooperation (civilian, military) with China, re-affirming some pipeline deals with Iran, and preparing itself for a drawdown of NATO troops in Afghanistan while having to deal with the immediate after affects that are/will take place.



the relationship seems to be going from soured -- to toxic....unless there's a major paradigm shift, i dont see any sudden reverse of this trend.

Nicely placed.. and what i see is another bi-polar world and as usual, Pakistan playing in the hands of puppet masters due to corrupt and self-absorbed politicians, with dire consequences for the people of Pakistan on the horizon..

 

[AAtish]

This is where you have missed something.
Whilst the US government may represent its people, and generally prosecutes the wishes of its people domestically. There still seems to be little say in foreign policy. Moreover, the reflections of that foreign policy generally dont fall back to the American people at large. Whatever news they recieve of the world through the electronic media barred the internet is tailored for them.
As we know of channels such as Fox.. they report what they decide. Not the ground realities.. Only a few media networks in the US send back the real deal. With that, the US public cannot decide accurately whether or not to support a particular policy.
An American tax payer may know that 1% of his earnings end up in an aid camp in KP, but he/she will not know that once it got there, did it get to the people. did the person who receive it experience some change in his life due to that?
More drastically, when the US trooper in Afghanistan throws out an MRE to a kid, only to find out that the same kid blew one of his colleagues from boot camp .. what impression does that give him?
When the USAF engineer that trained an Afghan to service the mi-17 finds out that the said fellow has been stripping machines and selling parts .. how will he feel?.. Heartbroken perhaps?
What about the loadmaster on a C-130 who broke his back carrying bags of USAID flour to flood effected people.. handing it to them then.. seeing them smile for a bit. Only to come back and see the people from that country burning his nation's flag and stomping on it?

What should these people feel about Pakistan or Afghanistan?
They spent ten years here, coming back again and again.. a trillion dollar's perhaps sunk into this endeavor by their government, in a democracy they believe in unlike us. Where they elect a government knowing that it is working for their best interests. To them, its almost as if they were the ones in control and lost everything for nothing.
Ive already given what the common Pakistani feels...
What about the military, forget the head honcho's.. they deal with the bosses on the other side.
Here is the guy who lost his arm to a Taliban attack in waziristan.. spent days in agony. now performs second rate duties.. all because he was sent in to fight enemies of his country. He lost three guys from his unit, guys he danced with, shared the same plate with, talked about his life with.
Only to see on the news people calling his efforts as slave for the Americans.. Religious nutjob's and revered personalities downplaying his friends death, A government that disowns him. Only his unit cmdr supports him.. he goes back to find his local Mullah denouncing his employers position.. he feels disconnected from his religion.. all his training has morale riding on "La-Ilaha Illallah" and "Allah-o Akbar". He dies for his god first.. then his country comes into play. And now he is being portrayed as an enemy of his religion.
He has not been told, nor has he seen his fellow countrymen revere him, they did not hold a ticker tape parade when he came back from Waziristan.. nobody garlanded him when he came back.
What is his opinion in all of this?

Its not the fault of the American people... not entirely.Neither Chogy or Solomon represent their government, or know what it knows, nor share its views.What they are told is what is released to them. I as a Pakistani hold no ill will against them, they follow a system.. and the system is what we deal with, they are happy with the system for reasons best known to them. At least they have a system. To me, they are ignorant of what is going on here.. and the Sec. State of the US can set up a summer home in Pakistan and she still wont be able to see the deal for what it is.

Us a nation, we live on our flaws. We dont even know where to go, you think it was a comment in jest Hillary made about the Pakistani people having to decide as a nation where they want to be??
She was letting you have it raw. Tomorrow dont be surprised if the PPP government returns, with Asif Ali Zardari in his second tenure.
You and I will still go about our lives, still rant on Def.pk.. because inherently we have become druggists to this apathetic condition.

Sorry for my late reply santro.. been busy.. anyways, you are exactly elaborating my point.. i accept that most of the American people would not understand what is happening and they only see body bags going back and their 'hard earned' money spent on 'third world countries' as spent for 'nothing'.. but they need to educate themselves more then that.. their Government is playing them for fools...

As far as my point about what Americans are what i think about them stays the same.. honestly speaking, to us Pakistanis, America is not 'what its people are' but 'what the country is'... and i'm sorry to say.. they are backstabbers, cheaters, untrustworthy, liars, and anti-Pakistanis..

If we Pakistanis and the rest of the world can be aware of what US is doing around the world, so can the American citizen... if they don't, then they are as much involved in their country's crime as their politicians are... ignorance might be 'bliss' for them.. but its getting rather too much for the rest of the world..

Just my two cents..

 

[AAtish]

Sure Buddy. Times are changing. Never heard of USSR head of KGB being sued in New York for wrongful death (read terrorism) with summons being issued and the whole 9 yards.. And to top it all, USSR govt hiring lawyers to defend him in US courts..

Feeling of self grandiose has never served any one well..

I guess you missed the last line of my post ..

Anyways, read your own signature .. Indian existence on Pakistani forums prove the latter part

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What is the source of your confidence?

Zardari himself is known to issue threats to his critics anywhere.....in 2008 i believe it was, he banned Geo satellite network; in fact, this buffoon we call a ''president'' even stooped so low:


Pakistan president Asif Zardari bans jokes ridiculing him - Telegraph


so if he can even resort to that, it should be telling enough for you....


ISI has MUCH better things to do than worry about overseas critics. For God's sakes, people like Hyrbyair Marri are in the UK at present ---often spewwing out crap against the Pakistani state......if things were MY way and I was the one calling some shots, that guy would have died five years ago in a ''tragic car accident or ''slip and fall''.

But he's still alive. No ISI spooks are bothering him.

nor does ISI waste valuable time ''threatening'' expat Pakistanis...and if you think otherwise, can't help ya.