ISI spying in USA

[VCheng]

There is no hope from US cuz it is well known Back-stabber..........

Come now, there is always HOPE (for both sides, one side needing it more than the other, and it ain't USA).

 

[karan.1970]

Look who's talkin.. anyways, isn't it amazing to see that Intelligence agencies of Pakistan have sidelined India as it doesn't even exist? .. getting in deep waters is always difficult.. people who stay at shores don't know the 'fun' of it...

There was a time when we use to listen USSR-USA counter intelligence stories.. now its USA-Pakistan... hmmmm time is changing for sure ..

As they say.. what doesn't kills you, makes you strong... and everyone knows pretty well.. we Pakistanis don't die easily.. so look out for the stronger existence of Pakistan in the future...

Jalti pay thora tail daaloon )

Sure Buddy. Times are changing. Never heard of USSR head of KGB being sued in New York for wrongful death (read terrorism) with summons being issued and the whole 9 yards.. And to top it all, USSR govt hiring lawyers to defend him in US courts..

Feeling of self grandiose has never served any one well..

 

[AAtish]

Unfortunately.. that has not exactly worked out that well.. has it?
And a lot of that has to do with the failure of the US to have its allies convinced that it is there for good. Its failure to detach itself from the Israel mania existent in its usual target audience. Solomon posting pictures of US military personnel risking their lives and working hard to provide aid and support to people or articles by other pro-US members do little to convince people when their lives are still unchanged despite billions upon billions of US taxpayers money. When they are still killed by suicide bombers and their relatives hear Mullen asking people to do MORE. The much touted democracy has done nothing for us..
The target audience has been fed aid.. nothing more.. there wasnt a change in the system..
So as far as the target audience is concerned.. they see American AID as useless, they dont see how the part of it that gets past the kick backs and the commissions is keeping the economy alive here.
because it is not tangible to them.. Had the US come here, and opened a line outside the US embassy handing out 10000 dollars to every Pakistani it may have had a different impact. Although chances are it would have had Pakistani's queuing up for more the next day.

There was a brilliant initiative by USAID to get people set up entrepreneurship in KP.. some of it worked, but as the usual story goes.. most of the resources used for it ended up with corrupt officials.
Ive heard some Pakistani's say they would rather have China takeover.. to fix the system.. kill a million or so... since they themselves are unable to decide what to do.. or who to follow. Everyone who they have followed has led them to a pit.
To them. all the US is doing is feeding the ones they know as corrupt.. and they see the US critiquing their military which they adore.
So truly.. addressing the American taxpayer..
I would say your money is being wasted.. you are better off burning that paper than sending it to the IRS where it eventually ends up in swiss bank accounts. The Pak military is itself unsure how to deal with the situation.. its leadership has its hands full trying to tackle covert actions from you, India.. the Taliban, They have to keep their image at home and abroad. They cannot be bothered with .. NOR should they be bothered with changing anything.
They are a part of the nation.. and will change only with the nation.
Its a dead end here.. wrongs that cannot be undone.
Pakistan is a proverbial bottomless pit, and like Afghanistan.. needs to be left alone.

US Aid... needs to sent back to the US to get the economy back on track.
US troops need to be bought home, only to be used at a moments notice to protect the US whilst maintaining minimal presence at its interests abroad.

As far as the CIA-ISI relationship is concerned.. they are espionage agencies..
If they did anything less than that, they ought to be disbanded.
The Israeli's are claimed to be the US's inseparable allies, yet they too have been caught spying now and then on the US.
But watching one's interest is necessary in this trustless world.

Nicely elaborated.. but is there any need to repeat what has been said a zillion times before?.. People of Pakistan know it, US knows it, the people of United States know it.. but is US going to change its strategy? are they really here to 'help' Pakistan? are they 'ever' been a friend to Pakistan.. a 'real' friend? NO.. so its no use explaining to them anything..

just my two cents...

 

[SQ8]

Nicely elaborated.. but is there any need to repeat what has been said a zillion times before?.. People of Pakistan know it, US knows it, the people of United States know it.. but is US going to change its strategy? are they really here to 'help' Pakistan? are they 'ever' been a friend to Pakistan.. a 'real' friend? NO.. so its no use explaining to them anything..

just my two cents...

This is where you have missed something.
Whilst the US government may represent its people, and generally prosecutes the wishes of its people domestically. There still seems to be little say in foreign policy. Moreover, the reflections of that foreign policy generally dont fall back to the American people at large. Whatever news they recieve of the world through the electronic media barred the internet is tailored for them.
As we know of channels such as Fox.. they report what they decide. Not the ground realities.. Only a few media networks in the US send back the real deal. With that, the US public cannot decide accurately whether or not to support a particular policy.
An American tax payer may know that 1% of his earnings end up in an aid camp in KP, but he/she will not know that once it got there, did it get to the people. did the person who receive it experience some change in his life due to that?
More drastically, when the US trooper in Afghanistan throws out an MRE to a kid, only to find out that the same kid blew one of his colleagues from boot camp .. what impression does that give him?
When the USAF engineer that trained an Afghan to service the mi-17 finds out that the said fellow has been stripping machines and selling parts .. how will he feel?.. Heartbroken perhaps?
What about the loadmaster on a C-130 who broke his back carrying bags of USAID flour to flood effected people.. handing it to them then.. seeing them smile for a bit. Only to come back and see the people from that country burning his nation's flag and stomping on it?

What should these people feel about Pakistan or Afghanistan?
They spent ten years here, coming back again and again.. a trillion dollar's perhaps sunk into this endeavor by their government, in a democracy they believe in unlike us. Where they elect a government knowing that it is working for their best interests. To them, its almost as if they were the ones in control and lost everything for nothing.
Ive already given what the common Pakistani feels...
What about the military, forget the head honcho's.. they deal with the bosses on the other side.
Here is the guy who lost his arm to a Taliban attack in waziristan.. spent days in agony. now performs second rate duties.. all because he was sent in to fight enemies of his country. He lost three guys from his unit, guys he danced with, shared the same plate with, talked about his life with.
Only to see on the news people calling his efforts as slave for the Americans.. Religious nutjob's and revered personalities downplaying his friends death, A government that disowns him. Only his unit cmdr supports him.. he goes back to find his local Mullah denouncing his employers position.. he feels disconnected from his religion.. all his training has morale riding on "La-Ilaha Illallah" and "Allah-o Akbar". He dies for his god first.. then his country comes into play. And now he is being portrayed as an enemy of his religion.
He has not been told, nor has he seen his fellow countrymen revere him, they did not hold a ticker tape parade when he came back from Waziristan.. nobody garlanded him when he came back.
What is his opinion in all of this?

Its not the fault of the American people... not entirely.Neither Chogy or Solomon represent their government, or know what it knows, nor share its views.What they are told is what is released to them. I as a Pakistani hold no ill will against them, they follow a system.. and the system is what we deal with, they are happy with the system for reasons best known to them. At least they have a system. To me, they are ignorant of what is going on here.. and the Sec. State of the US can set up a summer home in Pakistan and she still wont be able to see the deal for what it is.

Us a nation, we live on our flaws. We dont even know where to go, you think it was a comment in jest Hillary made about the Pakistani people having to decide as a nation where they want to be??
She was letting you have it raw. Tomorrow dont be surprised if the PPP government returns, with Asif Ali Zardari in his second tenure.
You and I will still go about our lives, still rant on Def.pk.. because inherently we have become druggists to this apathetic condition.

 

[VCheng]

^^^ Excellent post Santro, but can you please help me understand what it has to do with alleged ISI spying in the US?

 

[Imran Khan]

if CIA can spy us why can't we?

 

[VCheng]

if CIA can spy us why can't we?

Sure you can, and do! All nations do it, at different levels of complexity, resources and outcomes.

 

[SQ8]

^^^ Excellent post Santro, but can you please help me understand what it has to do with alleged ISI spying in the US?

Sorry... it was off topic. But to elaborate on Chogy's sentence.. and not allow the thing to derail on who has done what for whom thing.

ISI spying in the US..
You know.. You better watch your back as well.. lest the FBI start the dragnet
Next thing you know, every pakistani is a potential spy.

Which brings another interesting aspect, maybe the ISI isnt using its own assets alone, There are other agencies.. other countries that have their interests to protect in the US. And some of these nation we have the you scratch my back, ill scratch yours tomorrow in installments agreement with.

 

[muse]

Published: July 24, 2011 23:59 IST | Updated: July 25, 2011 00:28 IST



L'affaire Fai



Some of the reactions in India to the arrest of Ghulam Nabi Fai, a United States-based Kashmir activist, have been overheated and indeed over the top. Dr. Fai has been charged by the FBI with violating a U.S. domestic law that requires anyone working for or accepting money from foreign governments to disclose this information; the FBI's complaint, filed in a U.S. court, accuses him of acting as an “agent” of the Pakistan government who accepted up to $4 million from the Inter-Services Intelligence to influence the U.S. government on its Kashmir policy. Most intelligence agencies further the interests of their countries in similar ways, even in less important capitals; some agencies are more competent than others at achieving their goals and masking their own involvement. Dr. Fai, a long-time U.S. resident, had been carrying on his lobbying work for nearly two decades and was known to have powerful friends inside the Beltway. It cannot be that the FBI suddenly stumbled on his failure to disclose the source of the funds with which his Kashmiri American Council (KAC HomePage) organised conferences and seminars on the Kashmir issue, right under the nose of the U.S. establishment. It is more plausible that the Fai arrest, days after the ISI director-general Lt. General Shuja Pasha's visit to the U.S., was a message to the Pakistan military to tone down its high anti-American rhetoric of recent weeks. From the Raymond Davis arrest in Lahore to Dr. Fai's arrest from his home in Virginia, Pakistan and the United States have given a copybook demonstration of how they do business with each other.

The 62-year-old Kashmiri's activities were an irritant for India, and to that extent New Delhi is a beneficiary of the arrest. Allegations have been made in the Indian press for more than a decade that Dr. Fai was channelling funds to Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, although no evidence of this has come to hand. What is totally uncalled for is the vilification of the Indians who attended the KAC conferences. That these scholars, journalists, activists, and prominent public figures accepted hospitality and air-tickets from a lobbyist for Pakistan does not make them ISI agents. After all, these are days ex-ISI and ex-RAW officials discuss peace prospects in Kashmir in Track 2 conferences that are funded by a range of interested parties, from foreign governments to NGOs. It is right for Indians from a range of backgrounds to meet and exchange ideas with those speaking for Pakistan. But l'affaire Fai does send out the message that better discretion must be exercised in accepting such invitations — and that there must be transparency about the sources of funding of the events.

 

[Imran Khan]

days after the ISI director-general Lt. General Shuja Pasha's visit to the U.S., was a message to the Pakistan military to tone down its high anti-American rhetoric of recent weeks

MR.Pasha reply them please .

 

[VCheng]

Sorry... it was off topic. But to elaborate on Chogy's sentence.. and not allow the thing to derail on who has done what for whom thing.

ISI spying in the US..
You know.. You better watch your back as well.. lest the FBI start the dragnet
Next thing you know, every pakistani is a potential spy.

Which brings another interesting aspect, maybe the ISI isnt using its own assets alone, There are other agencies.. other countries that have their interests to protect in the US. And some of these nation we have the you scratch my back, ill scratch yours tomorrow in installments agreement with.

Good advice; I have been vetted appropriately, let me assure you.

And yes, almost every agency worth their salt has assets deployed at multiple levels in the US, including the ISI, and everybody has shared and independent operations. In short, a proper clu5sterfcuk!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Mr. Tasleem, they discovered, had been posing as an F.B.I. agent to extract information from Pakistanis living in the United States and was issuing threats to keep them from speaking openly about Pakistan’s government.

Contradictory statements here - if the individual, as alleged, was indeed threatening expatriate Pakistanis from speaking against the government, then why would the ISI be sponsoring these efforts? This would be the job of the GoP, not the military.

The ISI, had it been involved, would have focussed on statements 'critical of the PA and ISI'. The ISI has no interest in 'threatening expatriate Pakistanis to stop criticizm of the GoP'.

This is yet another ham handed smear campaign to discredit and malign the PA/ISI, this time attempted at influencing the expatriate Pakistani population. And it is no wonder that, yet again, it is the propaganda mouthpiece of the US establishment, the NYT, that is main institution propagating this smear campaign.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, but to harass and muzzle ex-pats, thats a whole new level of spying. I suggest you read the article.

The article is contradictory - like the Fai case, this is just more of the same smear campaign designed to erode support for the Pakistani military and ISI. The accusations make absolutely no sense, as pointed out in my last post.

 

[Solomon2]

The ISI has no interest in 'threatening expatriate Pakistanis to stop criticizm of the GoP'.

What is the source of your confidence?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What is the source of your confidence?

What exactly does this particular PPP led government, full of military bashers, ethnic hatemongers, incompetent ministers and corrupt politicians, have that would interest the military/ISI in 'mounting a covert campaign against the critics of the government'?

The GoP has plenty of resources at its hands to do what is being alleged, independent of any ISI support.