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ISI Chief should resign,says ANP Bushra Gohar

I take that as a compliment, Any way i am a jiyala of my mother land, not any political party.


Yah you are right, actually PA is the only genuine political party in the country.

Good for you... now go and cry in naudero infront of your bibi and loot the country like ur ghadari... the musharaf era was much better than pathetic ghadari inc... heck his own companions one of the founders of modern ppp.... like Shah mehood,Zulfiqar mirza,ameen faheem..etc have left him.

10% khapay.
 
Bushra gohar should have a look around and see what mess and corruption the ANP has done in kp.
 
Pray tell me, on what basis you make the claim that Ayub Khan gave away part of Pakistan to China? Suppose it would have made you very happy that Pakistan had fought a war with China over this as we did with India over Kashmir?
Dear, kindly update ur self, Pakistan and China actually signed an agreement during Ayub era for boarder disputed areas and pakistan accepted chinese claim over over aksai chin.
WHo gave, general Ayub to take back Pakistani claim over any land.

If i accept ur logic then similarly Pakistan should accept the Indian claim over Gilgit baltistan, Azad Kashmir.
And Afghan claim over KP and northern parts of baluchistan.

Iran Baluchistan border - I have never before come across this crap except by some United Baluchistan ...........
I would once again request you to kindly update urself in this regard, yahya actually handed over part of baluchistan and it was handed over to iran for nothing. Check the information from pakistan institute of strategic studies.

Siachin -India pre-empted and on 13th April 1984 secured the passes Sia La and Bilafond la, thus cutting off about 1000 sq. kilometres of territorty. A conflict developed and has been going on since. Why do you blame Zia, why didn’t Bhutto order establishment of posts there after 1972?
Vow! my dear what an argument to justify the blunder of Gen. Zia. How would Bhuto know about the ground situation in siachin region in 1972. When the field commanders of PA were sleeping even in 1984, until indian army got their pants down.
PA sucks and a loser, if the same had happened with indians, they would have shown PA how to safe guard the holy land.

- PA try to capture kargil just like indians did in siachin, And then indian successfully got back their mountains. This is how respectable nation reply.

TTP thugs aligned with Al-Qaida have occupied FATA. Musharraf did not let them have it. Musharraf ordered military action but was strongly criticised by everyone. Even the Taliban loving main stream politician Imran Khan to this days maintains that this is not Pakistan’s war. Why do you blame Musharraf

Musharaf , ISI and its generals let taliban got control of FATA. They were so busy in political manipulations, organizing the King's Party Q-league and fraud referendum that they didn't get time to have a look at FTA when arab, tajik, Uzbik, Egyptians Arba and Afghan terrorists took complete control over FATA. Even today core commander Peshawar can not dare to visit any FTA agency by road.

and Yes you are right. why should we blame musharaf, Actually we should not, since he is a bloody men in uniform, so he is untouchable.

Please dont try to justify the miss deeds and bunders of our military establishment.

I can never forget how our generals and javan surrendered in 1971. This isn't how respectable nations behaves. General Naizi saluted Ajit sigh Arora and handed over his pistol. Our javans gave guard of honour to indian general and saluted the indian and bangladeshi flags in palton ground. It really hurts us.

It is about time that men in unifor should realize that they servants not masters of this country. Military supremacy since 1958 has already bleeded Pakistan a lot.
 
Bottom line is that military and its tools (ISI & MI) are unaccountable. They are the jungle kings, they can do any thing and men in uniform will never come under civilian supremacy.

Kayani and Pasha are no exception, they will continue their stupidities as no one can dare to question them.

My oh my, don't we hate the army. The army is unaccountable. Says who?
Ayub Khan resigned so did Yahya. Both were forced to resign by the public
 
Good for you... now go and cry in naudero infront of your bibi and loot the country like ur ghadari... the musharaf era was much better than pathetic ghadari inc... heck his own companions one of the founders of modern ppp.... like Shah mehood,Zulfiqar mirza,ameen faheem..etc have left him.

10% khapay.
I don't need to defend zaradri Govt. They can do it.
But any way you are free to keep on kissing the Musharaf toes.
 
My oh my, don't we hate the army. The army is unaccountable. Says who?
Ayub Khan resigned so did Yahya. Both were forced to resign by the public
No we don't hate our army, we hate the mind set of our greedy military generals and the stupidities they are doing for the last 60 years.

Ayub didn't resigned, he was forced to resign by Gen. Yahya.
Gen. Ayub violated his own constitution of 1962 when he handed over power to Yahya. Yahya did his best to remain in office even after disintegrating Pakistan but failed completely and then handed over power.
 
Not everybody has a defeatest mind.. sikander oops i meant alexander.
Its not my defeated mindset, Be bold enough to face the bitter realities. And the reality is that:

- Military failed to liberate Kashmir in 1948, and then non state actor (tribal fighters did the job.)
- Operation gibraltor failed and when india attacked in reply, we forgot about liberating kashmir and found it very hard to save our motherland.

- We had humiliating defeats in 1971, kargil , siachen. Our military failed every time.
WE lost east pakistan, we lost siachen, we lost kargil, we lost control over whole fata region, we failed to liberate Kashmir. We failed every time with this biggest army in whole muslim world.

Even afghans are much luckier as compared to Pakistan. Despite British, Russain and USA invaion, civil war and tribalism, their whole country is intact even without any organized army. Where are we have reduced to 40% what we were in 1947.


Its bitter but its true. But still ISI Military and men in uniform are in no mood to come under civilian supremacy
 
Are you sure you're not Indian?
Yes i am a Pakistani, A pakistani from head to toe. And Like every patriotic Pakistani who loves this country i feel deeply regarding the failures of our military and nations as whole.

The muslims of sub continent created the biggest muslim state of this world, which is reduced to 40% of its actual size in 1947.

I along with all pakistani want to see my country prosper and progress. Instead of progress and development, it has diminished with every passing decade.
Democracy, rule of law, merit and strong institutions are the essentials for progress. Military supremacy over civilian representatives is simply not acceptable to me and all pakistanis
 
Yes i am a Pakistani, A pakistani from head to toe. And Like every patriotic Pakistani who loves this country i feel deeply regarding the failures of our military and nations as whole.

The muslims of sub continent created the biggest muslim state of this world, which is reduced to 40% of its actual size in 1947.

I along with all pakistani want to see my country prosper and progress. Instead of progress and development, it has diminished with every passing decade.
Democracy, rule of law, merit and strong institutions are the essentials for progress. Military supremacy over civilian representatives is simply not acceptable to me and all pakistanis

what democracy ?!? The democracy that is touted by those are un-democratic themselves ?! for starters can we have elections within the politcal parties to elect the head of the party or are individuals and families entitled leadership by way of birth ?
 
Yes i am a Pakistani, A pakistani from head to toe. And Like every patriotic Pakistani who loves this country i feel deeply regarding the failures of our military and nations as whole.

The muslims of sub continent created the biggest muslim state of this world, which is reduced to 40% of its actual size in 1947.

I along with all pakistani want to see my country prosper and progress. Instead of progress and development, it has diminished with every passing decade.
Democracy, rule of law, merit and strong institutions are the essentials for progress. Military supremacy over civilian representatives is simply not acceptable to me and all pakistanis
Civilian representatives... Heh! Like our civilians have chosen their representatives on merits.... Like our public is ready to stand against Land lords... Wat happened in sindh during floods in current year, Mini Dams were destroyed by their own representatives just to save thier properties... Like These jagerdars and politicians never acted against rule of laws, always selected employers on merits? PA is only instution where we have seen better deciplane and decisions on merit.....
I don't know wat your problem is but If PA had been in supermacy of these civilians representatives then it would only became a incapable institution... Example is Pakistan Police.
 
Dear, kindly update ur self, Pakistan and China actually signed an agreement during Ayub era for boarder disputed areas and pakistan accepted chinese claim over over aksai chin.
WHo gave, general Ayub to take back Pakistani claim over any land.

If i accept ur logic then similarly Pakistan should accept the Indian claim over Gilgit baltistan, Azad Kashmir.
And Afghan claim over KP and northern parts of baluchistan.


I would once again request you to kindly update urself in this regard, yahya actually handed over part of baluchistan and it was handed over to iran for nothing. Check the information from pakistan institute of strategic studies.


Vow! my dear what an argument to justify the blunder of Gen. Zia. How would Bhuto know about the ground situation in siachin region in 1972. When the field commanders of PA were sleeping even in 1984, until indian army got their pants down.
PA sucks and a loser, if the same had happened with indians, they would have shown PA how to safe guard the holy land.

- PA try to capture kargil just like indians did in siachin, And then indian successfully got back their mountains. This is how respectable nation reply.



Musharaf , ISI and its generals let taliban got control of FATA. They were so busy in political manipulations, organizing the King's Party Q-league and fraud referendum that they didn't get time to have a look at FTA when arab, tajik, Uzbik, Egyptians Arba and Afghan terrorists took complete control over FATA. Even today core commander Peshawar can not dare to visit any FTA agency by road.

and Yes you are right. why should we blame musharaf, Actually we should not, since he is a bloody men in uniform, so he is untouchable.

Please dont try to justify the miss deeds and bunders of our military establishment.

I can never forget how our generals and javan surrendered in 1971. This isn't how respectable nations behaves. General Naizi saluted Ajit sigh Arora and handed over his pistol. Our javans gave guard of honour to indian general and saluted the indian and bangladeshi flags in palton ground. It really hurts us.

It is about time that men in unifor should realize that they servants not masters of this country. Military supremacy since 1958 has already bleeded Pakistan a lot.

Nearly all of these events happened within my lifetime and I feel deeply grieved to see when people make historically inaccurate statements.

In the Pakistan China border Accord of March 2, 1963, China conceded about 750 Sq. miles of area to Pakistan in return for recognizing China sovereignty over areas of Ladakh and Northern Kashmir. These areas lie in the Indian occupied territory and were not under Pakistani control. Pakistan had never claimed any part of Aksai Chin.

1948 UN resolution about Kashmir only says that Kashmiris have a right to decide whether they want to join Pakistan or India, it never said that Kashmir belongs to Pakistan. It is a highly presumptuous to take for granted that Kashmiris will join Pakistan, secondly if we somehow get Kashmir we would lay claim to Aksai Chin as well. If it was a foregone conclusion, why have the referendum at all?

For the record, China was already in possession of most of Aksai Chin and what was left was captured by China in 1962 War with India and current boundary between Indian & China runs along the McMahon Line. Thus no land under actual Pakistani control was given to China, Pakistan gained land instead. Pakistan simply accepted a 'Fait a complait'. You should thank Ayub Khan because as a result Pakistan and China have been great friends since.

Some malcontents have on occasion spread false rumours about Iran-Pakistan. I have heard many times that a river of oil is flowing underneath Baluchistan and Iran is not allowing us to drill it out. Now you claim that Yahya Khan gave oil bearing Pak lands to Iran. Nothing can be further from from the truth.

Iran has about 150 billion barrels oil reserves in addition to about 1000 Trillion cft of gas. All of these areas are on the Western border of Iran and along the Persian Gulf cost. To date, not a single oil bearing structure has been found on Iran’s eastern border. Similarly all the oil & gas finds in Pak Baluchistan have been on the Eastern side and a good 300 Km away from Iran border. This accusation is thus totally unfounded.

Two very prominent scholars; Dr Inayat Baluch in his ‘Problems of greater Baluchistan’ makes no mention of any accord signed by Gen Yahya Khan re Baluchistan border. Dr Mansoor Akbar Kindi – VC of Gomal University in ‘BO R D E R L A N D IN T E R A C T I O N: TH E CA S E O F PA K- IR A N I A N BA L O C H’ has nothing about it either. What I wrote in my earlier post that Pak- Iran border demarcation based on 1896 is based upon the narrative of the two aforementioned scholars.

I am not aware of any historian of note working for Pakistan Institute of Strategic studies. Dr Shireen Mazari is a Political Scientist and known for writing controversial articles in the ‘Nation which later proved to be false. The one example ‘Mysterious US Nationals’ appeared as front page story on Nov 20, 2009. The person turned out to be award-winning Australian photojournalist Daniel Berehulak. So much for the veracity of Dr Mazari. She is now with Imran Khan.

There is no doubt that India has forcibly occupied the Pakistan area on the Siachin. Due to the area’s geographical location, Pakistan did not have the resources to launch any larger attack than what we did. Additionally, it is a fact that Pakistan is not in a position to beat India by force. We tried this in 1965 without success. In 1971 we were beaten badly and again in Kargil we had to make an ignominious retreat. Therefore once occupied by Indian Army, Pakistan couldn’t have taken it back by force. Despite the fact that I despise Zia ul Haq, I cannot put this blame on Zia as the same thing would have happened whosoever was in power.

FATA happened within the last few years. If in your greater wisdom you really believe that Musharraf handed FATA over to the terrorists, you are welcome to your opinion. However these terrorists are real ungrateful SOB’s as they tried to kill Musharraf twice.

I am just an ordinary Pakistani student of history and can only try point out what I think is not historically correct. Of course you being a very knowledgably person have every right to believe whatever you wish.

Finally, surrender at Dacca was no doubt a great shame. I was in Karachi at that time, saw it on the TV and the memory is still vivid. I totally agree that the coward Niazi should not have surrendered and go down fighting.

If you have read Hamudur Rahman report. You would have noticed that ZA Bhutto, by refusing to sit in the parliament if it was called, also shares a lot of blame.
 
what democracy ?!? The democracy that is touted by those are un-democratic themselves ?! for starters can we have elections within the politcal parties to elect the head of the party or are individuals and families entitled leadership by way of birth ?
Its the people of Pakistan who will decide what will the type of government system in the country. Miitary has no right what so ever to dictate its terms to the politicians and people of Pakistan.

There are flaws in our democratic systems and political parties, that needs to be improved and corrected but that is no excuse for the military to take over, after every one or two decade.

Pakistani people want nothing exceptional, Their only desire is that men in unifrom and military establishment should confine them selves to the duties nothing else.

They should honour their oath which they take as they join PA that they will abide by the duties and work within the constitution norms of Pakistan. The father of nation also directed the to do
so.
 

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