ISI - a big failure?

[Mitro]

I will not say ISI failure because after 11 years of fighting invisible enemy Pakistan is still intact ,Actual failure is judiciary in 11 years of terrorism but not a single death sentence and terrorist are free to kill again.
I think ISI did a wonderfull job to fight CIA,M15,Mossad and RAw. time is going to change after 2014 withdraw of Nato from AF and there will be no place for TTP to hide and operate.

people need to understand that no intelligence agency in the world is by the book.

Nor in the Holy land of justice USA, not in Israel. Intelligence agencies don't work a fair game.

Sure, the ISI has it's failures too, but this missing person thing has been propped up too far by certain people that the perception is that ISI just goes on to pick any random guy off the street. The people caught are indeed BLA

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Does the bolded part suggest success?

Have they told the nation the truth about TTP, about the Lashkars? About their involvement with the creation of the super Mzloums? You know that many people think that it is ISI itself that is behind these terrorist and sectarian attacks - Is that success?

Please do not think, for a minute, that we feel good about these failures - we cant begin to make it right without this critical review.

no success but they dont play golf no more


normally all Dawn news articles mention ISI whenever Lashker Jhangvi claims responsibility for its latest shia massacre

re TTP or Punjabi taliban well if the nation is still needing the explanation from ISI then it wont do much good. not absolving the ISI from its experiments but its on the receiving end of the same people it created. the sectarian monster has become indiscriminate now & is not being fussy about its targets anymore & the fact that both the Judiciary and media are not "playing ball" as per the wishes of Pak military, ISI doesnt have much leverage.

in a recent interview Musharraf raised the question if some one is keeping an eye on Red Mosque at all or not? has Molana Aziz changed his heart all together after loosing his brother? his sermons, the type of literature and the masked gunmen show the same old Molana Aziz but that place is now out of bound for the intelligence agencies. what a farce

 

[jayron]

This is stupid..... ISI is the most feared intel agency in the world. They have single handedly caused more damage to India and Afghanistan than the entire pakistan's conventional military could have X 10 times.

The whole point of intelligence agencies creating trouble in other countries is to gain something for your country. I don't think ISI has achieved that. If anything, they have caused much more damage to Pakistan than to other countries.

I also don't find ISI to be truly secretive. They are in the media too much and always for the wrong reasons.

 

[MilSpec]

The whole point of intelligence agencies creating trouble in other countries is to gain something for your country. I don't think ISI has achieved that. If anything, they have caused much more damage to Pakistan than to other countries.

well, all depends on how you look at it, no matter how much damage it's action may or may not have caused to pakistan, it has consolidated the position of the pakistani military (pakistani army actually).

As far as the damage they have done, In a single stroke of brilliance, they almost took over afganistan with the taliban puppets, that has to be the one and only colonization of a country by an intell agency. No other agency can ever boast of such feat.

As far as damage to india, I don't need to mention anything, it's all evident.

ISI has strengthened the position of it's Military and it's actions/results hae ensured that the military superseeds the civilian government. - huge sucess

ISI has ensured India remains suspicious of pakistan, and sabotaged peace deals with India - to ensure India has to endure an unwanted hostility towards pak which has caused India billions in defence infrastructure- Huge sucess

ISI in Afghanistan has almost secured a full fletched country with a secondary militia force equal in number to their own. - almost a huge sucess

Rouge elements hitting pakistan, ensure dominance of pak military over political government- Un intended success...


In all ISI has served pakistan military very well, I am not sure if it means they have served pakistan well!

 

[muse]

no success but they dont play golf no more


normally all Dawn news articles mention ISI whenever Lashker Jhangvi claims responsibility for its latest shia massacre

re TTP or Punjabi taliban well if the nation is still needing the explanation from ISI then it wont do much good. not absolving the ISI from its experiments but its on the receiving end of the same people it created. the sectarian monster has become indiscriminate now & is not being fussy about its targets anymore & the fact that both the Judiciary and media are not "playing ball" as per the wishes of Pak military, ISI doesnt have much leverage.

in a recent interview Musharraf raised the question if some one is keeping an eye on Red Mosque at all or not? has Molana Aziz changed his heart all together after loosing his brother? his sermons, the type of literature and the masked gunmen show the same old Molana Aziz but that place is now out of bound for the intelligence agencies. what a farce

Are these successes?

 

[haviZsultan]

I don't see them as any form of success whatsoever. I have always been one of those citizens who could not hear a word against the army... now you know I look back and wonder, maybe I overdid it. Criticizing the institution can help make it better.

ISI has shown no remarkable success on any front in the war on terror. In fact the most powerful investigative agency is in the Sindh police-the CID Karachi. I am a real fan of those guys. Every week we hear they caught another terrorist scum. ISI's reputation has been so soiled that it needs to be replaced only because of this. Half the world is blaming it for some form of wrong-doing.

Furthermore why hasn't the ISI done anything to target top leaders of TTP like Fazlullah, Hakimullah, Wali Ur Rehman, Asmatullah Shaheen and others? Its a huge failure I believe.

 

[KS]

Wish that were true - Next time you or any other wants to claim that ISI are a success, make sure the super Muslims are not exploding themselves in Mosques and bazaars or their lashkars are not taking Pakistanis soldiers hostage and beheading them while Pakistani generals enjoy Golf.

Lets just say the bombs are going off *not* because of the incompetency of ISI.

to be fair,
Pakistani generals are also in the firing line
blown up and shot dead at point blank range.
Pakistan army has the highest officer to soldier death ratio in the world.

That is the jawan and the other officers. Not the generals. Same in India.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Lets just say the bombs are going off *not* because of the incompetency of ISI.



That is the jawan and the other officers. Not the generals. Same in India.

few examples for you to help you understand I wasnt talking nonsense
click on the quotes they are from Western news websites

The blast instantly killed Pakistan's surgeon general, Lt. Gen. Mushtaq Ahmad Baig, his driver and his guard,

The army confirmed two serving generals and four other officers were among the dead.

Are these successes?

no sir they are failures.

but nabbing a hairy ugly AQ guy KSM from a female Jamat Islami activist in Pindi and nabbing Al Libbi are one of the many successes as well. glass is still half full

 

[Screambowl]

Rawwwwwww sounds better that Issii

 

[illusion8]

This was supposed to be a single post thread - whatever that means - whatever happened to that?

well, all depends on how you look at it, no matter how much damage it's action may or may not have caused to pakistan, it has consolidated the position of the pakistani military (pakistani army actually).

As far as the damage they have done, In a single stroke of brilliance, they almost took over afganistan with the taliban puppets, that has to be the one and only colonization of a country by an intell agency. No other agency can ever boast of such feat.

As far as damage to india, I don't need to mention anything, it's all evident.

ISI has strengthened the position of it's Military and it's actions/results hae ensured that the military superseeds the civilian government. - huge sucess

ISI has ensured India remains suspicious of pakistan, and sabotaged peace deals with India - to ensure India has to endure an unwanted hostility towards pak which has caused India billions in defence infrastructure- Huge sucess

ISI in Afghanistan has almost secured a full fletched country with a secondary militia force equal in number to their own. - almost a huge sucess

Rouge elements hitting pakistan, ensure dominance of pak military over political government- Un intended success...


In all ISI has served pakistan military very well, I am not sure if it means they have served pakistan well!

Regarding Afghanistan - I would attribute the success to CIA too with whom ISI and Pakistan intelligence have been working for a very long time prior to the talibanization. CIA must have a major hand in improving ISI's operations.

Apart from that, are there any other notable successes that can be attributed to ISI work?

 

[MilSpec]

This was supposed to be a single post thread - whatever that means - whatever happened to that?



Regarding Afghanistan - I would attribute the success to CIA too with whom ISI and Pakistan intelligence have been working for a very long time prior to the talibanization. CIA must have a major hand in improving ISI's operations.

Apart from that, are there any other notable successes that can be attributed to ISI work?

Huge difference between mujhiddens and taliban, Mujhideens like dostum and massoud fought against the ISI backed taliban whereas few mujhshideens like hekmetyaar joined the taliban.... There is a big misconception that mujhaideens became taliban, which is not completely true. Talib (student) were the kids recruited mostly from the afghan refugee camps and tribal areas of pak, trained in the madrasas backed by saudi money and sent in by ISI under the so called leaddership of mullah omar, but during the 94 attacks on kabul, ISI/PA mil commanders were embeded in the squads that attacked massouds forces, which by the way he sucessfully repelled. Later massoud and rabbani had to tactically evacuate to panjshir, from where they did launch a counter attack, decimating the taliban, but couldn't hold on to kabul.

When taliban government was formed, ISI backed elements sucessfully pulled off the IC 814 hijacking.- Another sucess

 

[illusion8]

Huge difference between mujhiddens and taliban, Mujhideens like dostum and massoud fought against the ISI backed taliban whereas few mujhshideens like hekmetyaar joined the taliban.... There is a big misconception that mujhaideens became taliban, which is not completely true. Talib (student) were the kids recruited mostly from the afghan refugee camps and tribal areas of pak, trained in the madrasas backed by saudi money and sent in by ISI under the so called leaddership of mullah omar, but during the 94 attacks on kabul, ISI/PA mil commanders were embeded in the squads that attacked massouds forces, which by the way he sucessfully repelled. Later massoud and rabbani had to tactically evacuate to panjshir, from where they did launch a counter attack, decimating the taliban, but couldn't hold on to kabul.

When taliban government was formed, ISI backed elements sucessfully pulled off the IC 814 hijacking.- Another sucess

This is a surprise! - though nothing can be discredited to its clandestine activities - ISI has become a force to reckon with in proxy wars.

What's happening now? have they lost their midas touch?

One more ISI success I can think of is the Khalistan movement.

 

[muse]

This is a surprise! - though nothing can be discredited to its clandestine activities - ISI has become a force to reckon with in proxy wars.

What's happening now? have they lost their midas touch?

One more ISI success I can think of is the Khalistan movement.

Or have they lost the wink and nod from a certain international player?

 

[illusion8]

Or have they lost the wink and nod from a certain international player?

That's a very big statement to make..

 

[muse]

That's a very big statement to make..

Yes, yes it is.