ISI - a big failure?

[abdul1234]

I just know one thing, we are surviving in the world because of our Intelligence agency ISI. They aren't terrorist, they are nationalists. But I'm not denying the black sheep in the agency, but it is true that every country's main intelligence agency has black sheep.

 

[muse]

I just know one thing, we are surviving in the world because of our Intelligence agency ISI. .

You know this, how?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

You know this, how?

It is very simple: I wear a baseball cap to avoid being hit by a meteor. Since I am alive, the baseball cap must work.

Any questions?

 

[truthseer]

The 'missing person' are actually terrorists caught in the line of fire, and set free by court to practise militancy. What else would you expect the Army to do?

Shame on you, and shame on the people who are misled by this nonsense. Bring me an iota of proof that all missing persons are terrorists.

Bonus hint: About 90% of media outlets of Pakistan including The News (Jang/Geo) are owned by two minorities group. No offense intended, just think about it

And what does this have to do with anything? Are you saying that only Muslims can be patriotic? A very pathetic attempt to try to protect the army

 

[Last Hope]

 

[qamar1990]

This thread is intended to be a one-post thread, as the creator does not wish to have biased and low-quality comments ruining and diverting the actual topic. If anyone wishes to argue over the topic, yet again after reading the following post, please find a separate thread. If you wish to add something, kindly PM me your questions or points to be evaluated, and I will do my best to help you. The reporting in this thread is basically from my knowledge, with additional posts by senior members especially Irfan Baloch, Icarus, FOX, Oscar and Aeronaut. The reason I have made this compilation is the lack of credit and respect for the services within Pakistani community which has been falling at an alarming rate, especially after the 'Raymond Davis' and 'OBL' issues. I will try to cover these points with my knowledge. Thank you.

Pakistan's Intelligence agency, failed to safeguard Pakistan’s interests?

Preview:

The Inter-Services-Intelligence is responsible for the defence-related intelligence operations and data capturing, for Pakistan’s military forces. The threats include both external as well as internal elements. ISI which is famously known as a sponsor of terrorism, promoting it in Pakistan itself, Afghanistan, India and other parts of the world including major countries like USA and UK. However, these allegations have been labeled as baseless and lashed back by the authorities. Whenever demanded for any backing to the statements, there has been a silent reply, like in the video below.

[video] Pakistan's ISI not involved in Terrorism-Indian Army Chief admits - YouTube[/video]
​

The first to accuse ISI was International media and foreign Intelligence agencies. I would however, not name any in my report. This was followed by Indian media catching up and blaming every minor incident on ISI, including camels and pigeons crossing the border. In disgrace however, rather countering these statements, Pakistani media sought no less than an opportunity for promotion in Pakistan as well as International community – for this topic was well famous and anyone who went against the streak would have lost creditability. This shameful behavior of Pakistan’s own media outlets, printed, visual and online, has hidden the bigger picture from Pakistani citizens, changing the attitude and behavior towards the ISI by public. Media is a strong and powerful element, especially in this century, forcing everyone to believe in what it says. Improper use can be extremely hazardous. Here is an example on how it works:

​

All thanks to media, the truth you know is in the following picture:

​

Above is a post by retired USAF officer, and the last two lines explain quite the working of media. They can tamper with the words they use and the story is taken to a complete new leve





Question: Why would the world want to show ISI as an 'terrorist organization', even within the Pakistani citizens?

ISI has been professional and strong, countering every threat from other Intelligence agencies and gathering Indian intelligence with great efficiency and success rate, using unique and one-of-it’s kind tactics. Despite the repeated attempted, all direct attacks on ISI by multiple different agencies have done nothing good for them.With ISI gone, Pakistan is open to any attack from any direction, military less powerful and clueless on what to do. This forced the 'enemy' to opt for plan B and engage ISI indirectly, targeting ISI’s biggest motive, Pakistani nation.

Why? Here is a hint. This is extract from my earlier short analysis, made right after South Sudan came into existence.


Back to topic, this is the actual mission for international media and intelligence agencies to spread false propaganda against ISI. But I don’t get it, what is the excuse for the immature, one-sided Pakistani media? Attention seekers or trend followers?


Question: If ISI is successful in it’s missions and objectives, why does it not publish reports and making them open for civilians?

The field of intelligence does not work in this way. Only a poor agency would publish their success, their findings, their missions etc. These reports would be used by 'enemy' intelligence and they would hence, find a loophole just from reports and understand the nature of counter. The best agencies never disclose anything about the operations, making people into believe no such operations have occurred which were however accomplished by the agency!

Question: If ISI is successful, why would there be unrest in Balochistan and KPK?

'For every 2 attacks, we foil 8 others - ISI'

This speaks a lot. The backbones of TTP and BLA have been broken, and they can now no longer survive for too long and eventually all of it would be wiped out, thanks to input from ISI and hard work of FC, military, para-military and militia all working under ISI.

The situation of Balochistan and locals asking for 'Freedom' or 'Liberation' is only presented on the Internet especially on Indian blogs and facebook. The ground realities are however quite different. I know many people with background from Balochistan living in other parts of Pakistan (and world) who don't share same feelings. Actually I never ever came across a 'real Baloch' who is asking for 'liberation'.

This doesn't prove that there are no liberation feelings. A few men have fallen into the trap and hopefully would recover. The most attention-seekers are just three tribes (with most power in the region) and using terrorism as their tool having foreign sponsors. However terrorism is not an option as they could use better means of communication, hence I fully support a military operation against these miscreants who have been a headache for FC, Pakistani citizens in the region and Pakistan in international community.

(More information on the tribes: These tribes have been the leaders of Balochistan for centuries and wish for their failing empire to go on. These corrupt, power-hungry bulldogs have nothing better to do than terrorize the people to keep them under their power.)

You can find more on Balochistan here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...-propaganda-campaign-against-balochistan.html

And if anyone wishes for proof of ISI's work against terrorism, view these threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/128013-isi-arrests-senior-al-qaeda-leaders-quetta.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...r-terrorist-attack-all-over-pakistan-eid.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/106054-pakistani-forces-against-militants.html

A part of ISI is dedicated to counter-terrorism measures. This is namely ‘Anti-Insurgency Department’. Being an Military Intelligence agency, this matter should not be covered by ISI. Actually is the responsibility of civilian security forces and intelligence. However, be grateful, knowing the civilian cannot tackle themselves, ISI decided to diversify and add more objectives to their responsibilities. What force? Why divide the limited funding into this matter? Just for the security of Pakistan and Pakistani residents… including you… who rather end up in shame and disgrace speaking against the work of ISI!

Question: If ISI is yet so powerful, why did it fail in Raymond Davis's case?

Well, I counter this question by asking 'Who said Raymond Davis's case was a failure?'. I am not sure if this is true or not, but my intelligence says that Raymond Davis was being tracked and followed, by ISI. After he was caught, this is supposed to be considered as an big achievement. During the investigations, he mentioned all the working of CIA in Pakistan, his fellow agents and his tasks. ISI's S-Wing had carried about operations and rounded up dozens of agents of non-Pakistani nationality, who have been sent back. No media took enough care to feature this.

Question: How would you defend the ISI kidnapping and killing innocent civilians?

If you are talking about the 'missing person' case, I’ve got the perfect reply. Imagine how it is like, after hard work by Pakistani forces and ISI in the operations against militancy, the commanders who have been arrested by military forces got good lawyers and hence they were given bail by the Anti-Terrorism-Court. I mean what the hell? You caught a person fighting you and probably killing your comrade in the battle field, and the same person is declared innocent due to a good defense lawyer? Do you expect the anti-insurgency to sit idol and do nothing about it? These commanders used to go back and fighting more fiercely, with the experience in previous battle, knowing the tactics used by Pakistan Army.

The 'missing person' are actually terrorists caught in the line of fire, and set free by court to practise militancy. What else would you expect the Army to do?

Bonus hint: About 90% of media outlets of Pakistan including The News (Jang/Geo) are owned by two minorities group. No offense intended, just think about it

UPDATED: First revised and edited version.

Regards.

This is the civilian-version of the report hence I have tried to make it neutral and balance the things out; avoided posting information on working and missions.

just two questions

who are the three tribes that want independence in balochistan?

which two minorities own majority of the media in pakistan?

if you dont want to post it here you message me.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

just two questions

who are the three tribes that want independence in balochistan?

which two minorities own majority of the media in pakistan?

if you dont want to post it here you message me.

1- Maingal, Marri and Bugti tribes. These tribes are most martial by character among Baloch and they have always led Baloch insurgencies.
2- Jang/Geo is owned by Urduspeaker/Mohajir...

 

[Last Hope]

1- Maingal, Marri and Bugti tribes. These tribes are most martial by character among Baloch and they have always led Baloch insurgencies.
2- Jang/Geo is owned by Urduspeaker/Mohajir...

Urduspeaker/Mohajir are not minorities nor do I consider them as any separate ethic. You can do a bit of research and find out what I meant. I will not name anyone here.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The missing balochs have always bothered me...If i am not wrong they are either members of Baloch nationalistic parties or Baloch students federation....these extra-judicial killings by agencies is further aggravating Baloch insurgency....is this even allowed in Islam?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Urduspeaker/Mohajir are not minorities nor do I consider them as any separate ethic. You can do a bit of research and find out what I meant. I will not name anyone here.

Just checked wikipedia article on its owner, Mir khalilur rehman. And i was wrong, he is from Gujrat Punjab. But i didnt find out any thing about his sect. As far i know "Mir" has some thing to do with iranis and shias, am i right?
Aaap hi bata dou, meri googling skill todhi kamzor he.

 

[Last Hope]

The missing balochs have always bothered me...If i am not wrong they are either members of Baloch nationalistic parties or Baloch students federation....these extra-judicial killings by agencies is further aggravating Baloch insurgency....is this even allowed in Islam?

They are terrorists belonging to various Baloch separation movements who were arrested by security forces and released by courts. Due to the danger they posses, they are then moved to military jails. A lot of things aren't accepted in Islam, but today in identity crises, there leaves no such option. Islam is flexible religion where many things are accepted under circumstances.

Just checked wikipedia article on its owner, Mir khalilur rehman. And i was wrong, he is from Gujrat Punjab. But i didnt find out any thing about his sect. As far i know "Mir" has some thing to do with iranis and shias, am i right?
Aaap hi bata dou, meri googling skill todhi kamzor he.

You are right about Mir Khalil. One of my elders in family used to work with Jang/The News administration and soon left for their agenda wasn't anything positive. No offence intended, but his group owns most of the media while the other is owned by Qadiyani families. Again, no offense or ethical discrimination intended.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

They are terrorists belonging to various Baloch separation movements who were arrested by security forces and released by courts. Due to the danger they posses, they are then moved to military jails. A lot of things aren't accepted in Islam, but today in identity crises, there leaves no such option. Islam is flexible religion where many things are accepted under circumstances.

You are right about Mir Khalil. One of my elders in family used to work with Jang/The News administration and soon left for their agenda wasn't anything positive. No offence intended, but his group owns most of the media while the other is owned by Qadiyani families. Again, no offense or ethical discrimination intended.

There are anti-terrorism courts in Pakistan, are these balochs even trialed there?. I do have some idea about intelligence agencies and their line of work, well from hollywood films. For intelligence gathering you have to violate human rights, but all this happens secretly, without any one knowledge.. But in case of Balochistan persons are not only missing, their tortured dead bodies are dumped in open...what is the meaning of this? should i call it a tactic to warn and scare those Balochs who are demanding freedom?....lets say all baloch separatists are killed this way, would it not be black stain on Pakistan history?....
Dear sir we are first humans and muslims, then pakistanis. Neither humanity nor islam teach us to adopt such inhuman approach..it is a political matter , lets politician resolve this matter...we saw the results of use of force in east pakistan. We are using military action against baloch separatists many times since 1947, but it re-surfaces again...so lets win the hearts of baloch by love and respect.

 

[Jango]

There are anti-terrorism courts in Pakistan, are these balochs even trialed there?. I do have some idea about intelligence agencies and their line of work, well from hollywood films. For intelligence gathering you have to violate human rights, but all this happens secretly, without any one knowledge.. But in case of Balochistan persons are not only missing, their tortured dead bodies are dumped in open...what is the meaning of this? should i call it a tactic to warn and scare those Balochs who are demanding freedom?....lets say all baloch separatists are killed this way, would it not be black stain on Pakistan history?....
Dear sir we are first humans and muslims, then pakistanis. Neither humanity nor islam teach us to adopt such inhuman approach..it is a political matter , lets politician resolve this matter...we saw the results of use of force in east pakistan. We are using military action against baloch separatists many times since 1947, but it re-surfaces again...so lets win the hearts of baloch by love and respect.

Not all those missing persons are really in possession of ISI/FC etc. They are called 'missing persons' not 'ISI prisoners'.

I have told this story many times on this forum like a broken record but here it goes again...long story short...there was this guy who was part of some terrorist outfit, he was living up in the mountains of Balochistan. His mother came on TV in some protest or something and was crying that get me my son back etc etc. A couple of days later, that guy turns up at his home!!!

Moral of the story, not everyone is captured by ISI. Most of these people are in Afghanistan, BLA camps etc. Nobody leaves home telling that he is going for terrorism and blowing himself up!

Similarly, these dumped bodies etc are also a mixed bag, some of these guys are dumped because of a local criminal issue, target killing, and some are also dealt with by the security agencies.

 

[Last Hope]

There are anti-terrorism courts in Pakistan, are these balochs even trialed there?. I do have some idea about intelligence agencies and their line of work, well from hollywood films. For intelligence gathering you have to violate human rights, but all this happens secretly, without any one knowledge.. But in case of Balochistan persons are not only missing, their tortured dead bodies are dumped in open...what is the meaning of this? should i call it a tactic to warn and scare those Balochs who are demanding freedom?....lets say all baloch separatists are killed this way, would it not be black stain on Pakistan history?....

Anti-terror courts are kept dry.
Torture is a tool used by everyone, from police on cases including street crimes to Maryam Nawaz for not getting her cake. About the bodies being found with tortured marks, what is the proof that it was military behind it? (No, Hamid Mir is not acceptable source). The BLA and co use this tactic, torture and dump, which is used for civilians as well security officials. The bodies recovered could very well be tortured by the same people. If the military was behind it, then this thread wouldn't have existed. This thread has open information on encounters and terrorists killed.

Therefore, I disagree to any 'black stain on Pakistan's history'. Balochistan is field of proxy and political warfare. Not terrorism. You should always recall this statement when reading anything about Balochistan.

Dear sir we are first humans and muslims, then pakistanis. Neither humanity nor islam teach us to adopt such inhuman approach..it is a political matter , lets politician resolve this matter...we saw the results of use of force in east pakistan. We are using military action against baloch separatists many times since 1947, but it re-surfaces again...so lets win the hearts of baloch by love and respect.

I hope things were really this easy. Everything is easy and looks good on papers, adopting it practically is complete different approach.

 

[Rajveer Singh Sekhawat]

ISI bred and sponsored terrorism, eventually exporting it to India. U attacked us in the past and we replied back in Kargil. We shall not forget your bastards who attacked us in 2008 on your soil. There is a heavy price for violence. Law of karma: what goes around comes back. The current state of turmoil Pakistan is in is because of past karma against India. Catastrophe coming of militants in Pakistan. Jai Hind! Hindustan Zindabad!