Is Turkey the role model?

[Myth_buster_1]

@ Mythbuster: Ok i agree that in Islam, religion and state should not be seperate. BUT, whose ISLAM are we talking about? WHO is the right muslim? The Deobandi? the Wahabi? the Shia? The Sufi? The Baraelvi? Yes its easy to say that we should not seperate the two, but as long as the ulema are busy fighting each other over who is the true follower of Islam how can we create a peaceful muslim country?

Islam = Quran, Hadis, Sunnah only. Creating sects and newly invented matters into islam is strictly forbidden. If you want to fallow islam then Quran Hadis sunnah is the only thing one must follow and discard everything else.

 

[Kambojaric]

^ "Islam = Quran, Hadis, Sunnah only".

Personally I couldnt agree more, but try telling that to the masses. At the end of the day we'l just have to accept that everybody has a different interpretation of Islam and everybody believes that they and only they have the correct interpretation of the religion. Try enforcing your interpretation on others and that results in pointless bloodshed along with making a massive joke of ourselves in front of the world.

 

[ovarel]

Islam = Quran, Hadis, Sunnah only. Creating sects and newly invented matters into islam is strictly forbidden. If you want to fallow islam then Quran Hadis sunnah is the only thing one must follow and discard everything else.

so you dont belong to any section?is this possible?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Just give me one example of an Islamic country where politics and Islam are mixed, that is not phucked up (excuse me for the expression). The same counts for Christian countries, try to run a country by clerics without phuckin it up.

Heck even in the beginning of Islam it did not work, Muslims killed Muslims even chalips when politics where mixed with religion. But yeah, if it makes you happy just wait for the Messiah while the rest of the world develops and lives in prosper.

You seem very ignorant in the matter of religion... it is obvious since you are comparing Islam with Christianity...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

@ Mythbuster: Ok i agree that in Islam, religion and state should not be seperate. BUT, whose ISLAM are we talking about? WHO is the right muslim? The Deobandi? the Wahabi? the Shia? The Sufi? The Baraelvi? Yes its easy to say that we should not seperate the two, but as long as the ulema are busy fighting each other over who is the true follower of Islam how can we create a peaceful muslim country?

Bamxa... I should say that this question is now fit to be called a purana phateechar sawal that keeps coming up by someone different everytime they are taking an interest in the forum... this issue has been dealt with many times on the forum...

I ll answer this for you and hopefully you ll get an idea... the next time someone asks this question... i dont think i ll bother anymore...

How about implementing those aspects where there is consensus on the issue??

This will eventually take everyone back to the sources of Islam... Quran/Sunnah/Ijma/Qayas... problem solved

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

so you dont belong to any section?is this possible?

It may be possible... there is a group called Ghair Muqalid who adopt things which they learn and do not follow any particular school of Juris...

but why go there... I am perfectly fine with all schools of Juris in Islam... and am perfectly fine with non Muslims also... do these differences in personal worship etc have anything to do with statecraft?

How about people who talk about difference of opinion being a problem give us an example related to statecraft from the different schools/groups... because if you dont then you dont know what you are talking about...

as for Muslims... its simple...

One God, One Rasool, One Quran, One Nation... yet divided into more than fifty useless countries...

I have to renew my visa for Turkey now... bloody waste of time...

 

[muse]

It is too early for such talk as "role model" -- AKP must lose elections and demonstrate how, with what message, it will mobilize the people and give hope to all, including those who do not think much of the AKP -- And of course the system in Turkiye must demonstrate that it can accommodate any variety of political opinion that plays by the rules and wins mandate.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

so you dont belong to any section?is this possible?

Is that compulsory for me to pick one section? Why cant i be just a muslim? anyways, i was born as a sunni.

 

[ovarel]

Is that compulsory for me to pick one section? Why cant i be just a muslim? anyways, i was born as a sunni.

i had mentioned the origin.

 

[Kambojaric]

@MBQ

Can you refer me to a thread where this has been discussed. For me this is just a Utopian dream, which sounds very good but in reality wont happen because everybody believes that they are the only true Muslims. Forget Shia Sunni, i have heard Deobandi, Barelvis speaking badly about each other. My knowledge of Islam is rather limited admittingly but to expect such people to work together sounds like a perfect recipe for disaster, which eventually leads you to thinking, you know what, all we are going to do is fight over religion and who is the real muslim. In that case isnt it better to keep our interpretation of Islam to ourselves and at the end let God decide who is the right one?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@MBQ

Can you refer me to a thread where this has been discussed. For me this is just a Utopian dream, which sounds very good but in reality wont happen because everybody believes that they are the only true Muslims. Forget Shia Sunni, i have heard Deobandi, Barelvis speaking badly about each other. My knowledge of Islam is rather limited admittingly but to expect such people to work together sounds like a perfect recipe for disaster, which eventually leads you to thinking, you know what, all we are going to do is fight over religion and who is the real muslim. In that case isnt it better to keep our interpretation of Islam to ourselves and at the end let God decide who is the right one?

We should just deliver the speech and let the people decide who is right and wrong according to Quran and Hadis/sunnah. We can not leave everything for Allah to decide. Btw these sects were bound to be created because Prophet Mohammed PBUH warned us about.
Thats why I keep saying, the only practical solution for all muslims to be united is when promised Messiah arrives.

 

[silko]

-If Islam is followed to its true potential Muslim world would not be having any problems like today

- yeah, so. thats what they said about communism to, but how did it go?

-Dont give me Iraq Afg Pak etc example to justify Secular system over Muslim World.

- well what should he give then? again when you talk about how bad X is you talk about bad Y's belonging to that X ! in this what he used as examples over there, iraq, pak etc...


i agree, i would rather have the ottoman empire back. but it ain't gonna happen. ottoman empire may not be the "TRUE" islam in your eyes, but unlike some arab countries ruled by sheikhs or kings who didn't accepted other religions they did. and the people even jews and christians. hell, they could even follow their religion and pray for their religion freely. they were a part of the country. if you say your a saudi jew in that country what happens?!?!?! oh yeah, your head gets wipped out right by. even in modern turkey this doesnt happen, why? because islam has told us, and me. to respect other religions who doesn't have the same
god and what else they have.

somethings is difficult to accept, but it's not going to happen.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

- yeah, so. thats what they said about communism to, but how did it go?

Please stop displaying your ignorance.
Are you comparing a man made system with the system of Allah? And claiming Secular system which was designed by Freemasons, Illuminati, Zionists to be superior to Islam?

- well what should he give then? again when you talk about how bad X is you talk about bad Y's belonging to that X ! in this what he used as examples over there, iraq, pak etc...

OMG, you seriously have poor comprehension and understanding of your own religion. Just because if some bunch of morons say this and that is Islam does not makes it ISLAM! Islam = Quran Hadis and Sunnah! Over the period of time people have created stuff which is clearly rejected in Quran and by Prophet Mohammed. Its quite disgusting of you guys that you are throwing dirt on Islam just to save your Secular State Turkey which was created by the British Empire.

i agree, i would rather have the ottoman empire back. but it ain't gonna happen. ottoman empire may not be the "TRUE" islam in your eyes, but unlike some arab countries ruled by sheikhs or kings who didn't accepted other religions they did. and the people even jews and christians. hell, they could even follow their religion and pray for their religion freely. they were a part of the country. if you say your a saudi jew in that country what happens?!?!?! oh yeah, your head gets wipped out right by. even in modern turkey this doesnt happen, why? because islam has told us, and me. to respect other religions who doesn't have the same
god and what else they have.

somethings is difficult to accept, but it's not going to happen.

And your point?

 

[SAUD-404]

There is no harm for selecting a Power Player like Turkey as a Role Model but I would say that for muslim countries, Turkey is a bit too westernized......... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[silko]

Please stop displaying your ignorance.
Are you comparing a man made system with the system of Allah? And claiming Secular system which was designed by Freemasons, Illuminati, Zionists to be superior to Islam?

no i have never said that. what i tried to say is, a lot of people will not follow islam to it's true potential. and i tryed to show this with communism, because communism is also a good way to run a state on, if followed correct!

OMG, you seriously have poor comprehension and understanding of your own religion. Just because if some bunch of morons say this and that is Islam does not makes it ISLAM! Islam = Quran Hadis and Sunnah! Over the period of time people have created stuff which is clearly rejected in Quran and by Prophet Mohammed. Its quite disgusting of you guys that you are throwing dirt on Islam just to save your Secular State Turkey which was created by the British Empire.

no i don't. what i said was what is he going to use as examples then... bush?

of course not, with x i meant religion and with y i meant people belonging to that religion. in this case islam! they will use bad examples of someones religion for their advantage. and thats what is used here by the west.

And your point?

my point is, if you say that the islamic world doesnt follow it to it's true potential, go become a politician and win some elections and spread this to the whole world. what i said is i would rather have the ottoman empire instead of modern day turkey but it aint gonna happen, just like the muslims in kuwait and saudi will have different views of islam, and not the way you see it