Is The U.S. Navy In Danger Of Falling Behind China’s PLAN?

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Both nations are using every and all means at their disposal to pursue their own respective national interests, just like all others. One could extend all your questions to all countries and not just selectively over the last half century and see what the answers come out to be, if we really look at history.

The discussion is on the US and China, hence comparisons of their respective actions that are a threat to global peace and security are apt - and the answers to the questions posed above clearly demonstrate that the US Establishment is a bigger threat to global peace and security, as it has demonstrated through wars, military invasions and coercive sanctions and embargoes.

 

[SpaceMan18]

The discussion is on the US and China, hence comparisons of their respective actions that are a threat to global peace and security are apt - and the answers to the questions posed above clearly demonstrate that the US Establishment is a bigger threat to global peace and security, as it has demonstrated through wars, military invasions and coercive sanctions and embargoes.

Oh silly man trust me under China's rule they'll make sure they will do the same , you keep forgetting China nor America cares about you

MUH HUH MURICA BAD , yes you can say that without dying cause America gives you a chance while China the copycat CCP doesn't

America has more allies than China and Russia combined , that alone tells a lot

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh silly man trust me under China's rule they'll make sure they will do the same , you keep forgetting China nor America cares about you

Did I say that either cared?

What I have said is that a single super-power with no checks and balances is bad.

Perhaps actually try to comprehend the posts instead of jumping into ad hominems.

MUH HUH MURICA BAD , yes you can say that without dying cause America gives you a chance while China the copycat CCP doesn't

I don't recall China carrying out any invasions in the Middle East, or carrying out regime change operations, or imposing sanctions and embargoes or carrying out drone strikes in violation of international law killing thousands of innocents.

 

[VCheng]

The discussion is on the US and China, hence comparisons of their respective actions that are a threat to global peace and security are apt - and the answers to the questions posed above clearly demonstrate that the US Establishment is a bigger threat to global peace and security, as it has demonstrated through wars, military invasions and coercive sanctions and embargoes.

How far back in history are we allowed to go in this thread?

List of wars involving the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If we agree that USA is the "bigger" threat, does that imply that China is a "lesser" threat to global peace? Is it because of differences in military power projection, or higher and nobler ideals somehow for China but not USA?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hey WUMAO at least America admits doing that , China over here putting muslims into concentration camps while your @ss is turning a blind fk eye to that issue.

China is threating to invade Taiwan , they have invaded Tibet and even Vietnam

CCP literally made Covid-19 and their slaves WHO was like " no no Corona isn't serious " LOOK WHAT HAPPENED


Yeah so with your stupid bias and logic China's also equally bad , except one lets to say the truth while the other kills you.


So stop defending China

Concentration camp reports that almost exclusively get pushed by Western Media outlets, so yeah, I'm skeptical.

Taiwan is considered part of China by even the US, yet no 'invasion of Taiwan' by China has occurred.

So the only bias I see here is you and some others giving the US a free pass despite all the wars, invasions, drone strikes, sanctions and embargoes that have negatively impacted tens of millions of people world wide.

There is no comparison to be made between the US and China in terms of how the US Establishment has negatively impacted global peace and security.

P.S: Any more slurs & personal attacks and you can take your views elsewhere.

How far back in history are we allowed to go in this thread?

List of wars involving the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If we agree that USA is the "bigger" threat, does that imply that China is a "lesser" threat to global peace? Is it because of differences in military power projection, or higher and nobler ideals somehow for China but not USA?

I'm pretty sure I mentioned the last few decades, otherwise we'd have to look at the genocide of native Americans by the US, US participation in the slave trade, US conquests of Texas and California, US support for dictators and terrorist regimes (and the overthrow of elected governments) in Latin America and Asia etc etc etc.

If Chinese foreign policies and pursuit of 'national interests' continue to avoid using military force and coercive sanctions & embargoes, then yes, China is a lesser threat to global peace and its rise as a competitor to the US could potentially result in fewer US wars, invasions and minimize the impact of coercive US sanctions on other countries.

 

[VCheng]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned the last few decades, otherwise we'd have to look at the genocide of native Americans by the US, US participation in the slave trade, US conquests of Texas and California, US support for dictators and terrorist regimes (and the overthrow of elected governments) in Latin America and Asia etc etc etc.

If Chinese foreign policies and pursuit of 'national interests' continue to avoid using military force and coercive sanctions & embargoes, then yes, China is a lesser threat to global peace and its rise as a competitor to the US could potentially result in fewer US wars, invasions and minimize the impact of coercive US sanctions on other countries.

That's fair only if not being selective over the last few decades. If all of US history is fair game, as it should be, then so would all of Chinese history:

Chinese imperialism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the key question remains: Is the degree of threat to global peace a measure of difference in power projection, or due to set of higher ideals followed by one side and not the other? The rapid expansion of the Chinese naval fleet is a distinct hint here, is it not?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's fair only if not being selective over the last few decades. If all of US history is fair game, as it should be, then so would all of Chinese history:

We are being selective since it is the modern era and it is the current and/or recent foreign policies of the two States in question, China and the US, that are being discussed to provide some insight into which one of the two poses a greater threat to global peace and security.

Nothing I have seen so far, in terms of recent history, suggests that China is a bigger threat to global peace and security than the US (US = US Establishment in my comments).

 

[VCheng]

We are being selective since it is the modern era and it is the current and/or recent foreign policies of the two States in question, China and the US, that are being discussed to provide some insight into which one of the two poses a greater threat to global peace and security.

Nothing I have seen so far, in terms of recent history, suggests that China is a bigger threat to global peace and security than the US (US = US Establishment in my comments).

Okay, given the above, I ask again:

Is the degree of threat to global peace (selectively only in the modern era) a measure of difference in power projection, or due to set of higher ideals followed by one side and not the other? The rapid expansion of the Chinese naval fleet is a distinct hint here, is it not?

 

[SpaceMan18]

Concentration camp reports that almost exclusively get pushed by Western Media outlets, so yeah, I'm skeptical.

Taiwan is considered part of China by even the US, yet no 'invasion of Taiwan' by China has occurred.

So the only bias I see here is you and some others giving the US a free pass despite all the wars, invasions, drone strikes, sanctions and embargoes that have negatively impacted tens of millions of people world wide.

There is no comparison to be made between the US and China in terms of how the US Establishment has negatively impacted global peace and security.

P.S: Any more slurs & personal attacks and you can take your views elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned the last few decades, otherwise we'd have to look at the genocide of native Americans by the US, US participation in the slave trade, US conquests of Texas and California, US support for dictators and terrorist regimes (and the overthrow of elected governments) in Latin America and Asia etc etc etc.

If Chinese foreign policies and pursuit of 'national interests' continue to avoid using military force and coercive sanctions & embargoes, then yes, China is a lesser threat to global peace and its rise as a competitor to the US could potentially result in fewer US wars, invasions and minimize the impact of coercive US sanctions on other countries.

Personal attacks ? Lol this is the internet buddy wake up


I like how you suggest Taiwan is part of China yet Taiwan in an independent country , it's like saying Pakistan is part of India you know how silly that sounds ?


BOTH CHINA AND AMERICA are both evil , they don't give one dam about anyone but themselves and only dam reason China isn't invading Taiwan is cause of American influence.

China will never be a lesser threat , they don't even support free speech so how do you even expect them to care about the world ?


There's more Chinese people in America than Americans in China, China has 1 opportunity to be good and better than the U.S they blew it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

China will never be a lesser threat , they don't even support free speech so how do you even expect them to care about the world ?

I'll base it on the number of military invasions, sanctions and drone strikes conducted by the Chinese vs Americans on other countries in the last few decades.

Okay, given the above, I ask again:

Is the degree of threat to global peace (selectively only in the modern era) a measure of difference in power projection, or due to set of higher ideals followed by one side and not the other? The rapid expansion of the Chinese naval fleet is a distinct hint here, is it not?

The threat to global peace and security is from world powers using military force, coercive sanctions and embargoes and regime change imposed by external powers, outside of that sanctioned by the UN Charter.

You know well which country, between the US & China, has engaged in significantly more of the above, and is continuing to aid, for example, Israel & India in continuing to flout UNSC Resolutions and a peaceful resolution of territorial disputes.

 

[VCheng]

The threat to global peace and security is from world powers using military force, coercive sanctions and embargoes and regime change imposed by external powers, outside of that sanctioned by the UN Charter.

You know well which country, between the US & China, has engaged in significantly more of the above, and is continuing to aid, for example, Israel & India in continuing to flout UNSC Resolutions and a peaceful resolution of territorial disputes.

And yet you have chosen yet again to avoid answering this simple question, which is telling, and I will stop at this:

Is the degree of threat to global peace (selectively only in the modern era) a measure of difference in power projection, or due to set of higher ideals followed by one side and not the other?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And yet you have chosen yet again to avoid answering this simple question, which is telling, and I will stop at this:

Is the degree of threat to global peace (selectively only in the modern era) a measure of difference in power projection, or due to set of higher ideals followed by one side and not the other?

Higher 'ideals' are pointless when actual policy is contrary to said declared 'higher ideals'. For example, take the Indians and Israelis and their 'higher ideals' of 'secular democracy' rendered meaningless with their hate-mongering, territorial expansionism and violation of the UN Charter and refusal to abide by UNSC Resolutions and the US enabling genocidal regimes engaged in military occupation in Israel, India or the GCC dictatorships. So the US Establishment fails both choices in your question.

A Tangible negative impact on global peace and harmony from military adventurism, stoking and starting conflict and coercive sanctions and embargos outside of that authorized by the UN Charter - between the US and China, we know for a fact which country has engaged in more of the above, and therefore why the US Establishment is a bigger threat to international peace and harmony.

 

[Itachi]

How are China and the US abiding by the 'same rules, equally'?

What tangible actions has China undertaken to directly threaten the US?

How many wars has China started in the last couple of decades?

How many countries has China carried out a military invasion of in the last couple of decades?

How many countries has China levied trade & economic embargoes on to damage their governments and force them into compliance?

And now the same for the US:

What tangible actions has the US undertaken to directly threaten China?

How many wars has the US started in the last couple of decades?

How many countries has the US carried out a military invasion of in the last couple of decades?

How many countries has the US levied trade & economic embargoes on to damage their governments and force them into compliance?

Pretty sure genociding a ethnic minority breaks a lot of rules...

Also, not allowing international media into Xinjiang....obviously to cover up all the crimes, is one of the many things China does which goes hand in hand with not following "rules".

Keep in mind, every country breaks rules. Both the US and China do......China isn't some form of Angel. No matter what people might believe in.

What I have said is that a single super-power with no checks and balances is bad.

If China gets its way, then China will be like, if not worse, than the US. They're playing it nice since they're the underdog...

 

[Nasr]

a single USN Carrier Group has more firepower not to mention the knowledge and experience than entire Chinese Navy

if China deployed 3 carriers against a single USN carrier strike group all 3 Chinese carriers would be sunk

USN has 100 years of experience and knowledge behind it with over 80 carriers constructed

China builds 1 carrier and fanboys are dreaming again

Yes that is a very valid point you have there. No doubt that america has a vast experience in operating aircraft carriers, particularly combat experience. Having said that, the biggest disadvantage of america's aircraft carrier strike groups is the maintenance and the budgeting nightmare that comes with it. Today's american military is more an more money oriented. Acquisitions have been an ongoing series or disasters. Be it Zumwalts, Littoral Combat Ships or Naval Helos.

Cronie Capitalism has managed to infect the us military, deep. Sequestration, is one part of the deteriorating state of affairs with the us military. Another is the management of maintenance, where the US Navy was, at one point, consulting with Cruise Ship liners on maintenance and considering utilizing their services for upkeep of it's "white elephants", i.e the super carriers.

China has so far ticked all the boxes when it comes to military modernization. Where US Navy has no equal in carrier operations experience. So to China has no equal in mass production of advance tech and lethal naval combat ships. In line with such tremendous achievements, China must formulate an intense rate of carrier operations to amass the experience required for proficiency in carrier operations. Working with key allies in this regard will further benefit, in particular Russia. It is to China's advantage that they work with Russia in improving and refining carrier operations. Allies are key in the event of a confrontation with america. You don't need me to tell you how much america is dependent on allies to join in wars. Every war america has fought since WW2, has been with allies, not a single one was fought by america, alone.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pretty sure genociding a ethnic minority breaks a lot of rules...

Also, not allowing international media into Xinjiang....obviously to cover up all the crimes, is one of the many things China does which goes hand in hand with not following "rules".

Keep in mind, every country breaks rules. Both the US and China do......China isn't some form of Angel. No matter what people might believe in.


If China gets its way, then China will be like, if not worse, than the US. They're playing it nice since they're the underdog...

Internal issues. I could argue that US law enforcement is wracked with systemic racism and discriminatory attitudes as well. Nations should be allowed to evolve on their own, driven by domestic dynamics. Selective Western interference and propaganda in support of their own geo-political goals is not acceptable. The US Establishment and its apologists can rant and whine about Xinjiang when the US acts against the Israeli and Indian occupation and atrocities of millions of Palestinians and Kashmiris, instead of building stronger strategic relationships with them and helping them become stronger to perpetuate their atrocities and occupation.

That said, global peace and harmony is not driven by the US treatment of non WASP US Citizens much like it isn't driven by Chinese treatment of the Uighurs. Global peace and harmony is impacted by wars, conflict, regime changes driven by global powers for their own vested interests, sanctions and embargoes, outside of the UN Charter. I don't see China coming even close to the US Establishment on those metrics of destabilizing the world.