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Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

But Pakistan was formed purely on religious basis - A separate country and identity for Muslims. Though the founder Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state, this did not happen and the situation now has deteriorated to internecine war erupting between Muslims themselves! It's religion that controls most everyone's lives in Pakistan, exacerbated by the shenanigans of the self styled Mullahs who think they're God's own representatives.

The tragedy is that most follow them like sheeple. Whither nationhood?

Please update your history knowledge.

Not a good idea for a good poster like yourself to repeat 5th grade school history book propaganda.

Thank you.



FYI

Congressi Stance: Hindu Majority provinces and Muslim Majority provinces can't live together
 
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Its a cultural problem.

You can narrow down origins of each militant group.

AQ - Saudi

Syrian Rebels - Syria

ISIL - Iraq

The whole "gobal jihad" concept is from Wahabism and Salafism which these groups enforce as soon as area is captured.

Whilst Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and UAE can buffer against these crazies. It is a monster which will destroy many more "Muslim" countries before it is finished off.
 
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Its a cultural problem.

You can narrow down origins of each militant group.

AQ - Saudi

Syrian Rebels - Syria

ISIL - Iraq

The whole "gobal jihad" concept is from Wahabism and Salafism which these groups enforce as soon as area is captured.

Whilst Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and UAE can buffer against these crazies. It is a monster which will destroy many more "Muslim" countries before it is finished off.


Don't forget the monsters of Ayatullahs. aka Hizbullah
 
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All this debate is philosophically, based on those perhaps lived in 1000 AD or even before.

perhaps the proponents of Islamist world finally should make a jump of 1014 years and start living in 2014.

"1+1 = 2" was true back in 1000 AD just as it is true in 2014. Truth is truth and Islam is the greatest way to live and to govern a state whether we're talking 1400 years ago, today or tomorrow.

There is a reason why Baghdad under Islam was once the centre of world learning and Islamic states like Al-Andalus were 700 years ahead of the rest of Europe technologically and socially. Islam represents the Type 1 civilization that's commonly referred to as the next step in human progression.

In 2014, religion does not define the basis of a nation state, borders do, culture does, and resources unique to those borders do.

Religion defines a significant amount of the culture of both Muslim and non-Muslim nations. Religion dictates what we eat and how we prepare our food, what we wear, our social habits, etc...

Have you ever heard of something called a "civil war"? The US went through one, France had one, China had one, etc... when did "borders" or "resources" or even a common ethnicity ever keep a nation together or prevent its inhabitants from fighting? A nation is defined by its people and a common ideology they share. We are an ancient civilization that has fashioned itself into an Islamic Republic and those who are opposed to Islam are always free to live elsewhere.

Any nation which uses religion in its fundamental structures is damned to remain a backward underdeveloped state.

Interesting...

India is supposedly "secular" nation yet not only is it a backward undeveloped state it will remain one for the well foreseeable future.

Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Qatar, Malaysia, etc... are not a "secular" states yet they're by far more developed than the secular India whose citizens, particularly Hindus, walk over each other trying to migrate to Muslim states.

It also seems that Indian "secularism" has done nothing but increase peoples suffering:
hy9l8g0gkkaw90feqfqfeg.png


While "Islamist" Pakistani's are a lot happier.
http://media1.intoday.in/indiatoday/WorldHappinessReport2013_online_2.pdf

As Ha-Joon Chang, one of the worlds most prominent development economists alive today, would put it Western development is abnormal. The West developed on slavery, theft and exploitation without which they'd be the modern undeveloped shit holes of the world. Pakistan and India, under the Mughal empire, had a GDP (PPP) per capita equivalent to that of Britain's prior to the occupation. However, under the British Raj (made possible by the Indians allowing themselves to be enslaved) our GDP (PPP) per capita only grew a measly 60% in 90 years (while Britain's grew 700% in the same time) but after independence our GDP (PPP) per capita grew 300% in 30 years (five times the growth in a third of the time). This is further supported by research papers like "Did Colonialism matter for Growth?" written by Prof. Graziella Bertocchi and Prof. Fabio Canova who came to the same conclusion that the effects of colonialism (though specifically in reference to European colonialism in Africa which was the main focus of their paper) were almost totally negative and following colonialism African economies grew rapidly.

So please start focusing on the nation-state and then define its unique problems and solutions that are based on the unique resources of the state.

I don't understand how this has anything to do with secularism or is in any way anti the Islamic state.

In fact while the "secularists" have been campaigning for Pakistan to be more dependent on handouts and reliance on the rest of the world it's the religious Muslims that have been campaigning for a greater focus on meeting Pakistan's own needs by utilizing our own resources.

"Abu Huraira is reported to have heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is letter for one among you to bring a load of firewood on his back and give charity out of it (and satisfy his own need) and be independent of people, than that he should beg from people, whether they give him anything or refuse him. Verily the upper hand is better than the lower hand, and begin (charity) with your dependents." (Sahih Muslim B5V2267)
Not a good idea for a good poster like yourself to repeat 5th grade school history book propaganda.

What propaganda are you referring to?

Pakistan was created for Muslims by Muslims though there were some Christians who did play influential roles as well (some of whom also reverted to Islam).

Pakistan being an Islamic state never meant non-Muslim Pakistanis weren't welcome to live within it but they, like all people, need to abide by the laws of the Islamic State just as people are obliged to follow the laws of whatever country they settle in. Considering Islam allows for freedom of worship I don't see what anyone's problem would be with Sharia unless they were drunks, drug addicts and corrupt and wanted to engage in crime and immoral behavior within Pakistan.

Look at the men behind the All India Muslim League and responsible for the creation of Pakistan.

Chaudhary Rehmat Ali was the name who came up with the name Pakistan as well as men like Sir Syed Khan, Allama Iqbal, Agha Khan III, etc... and even Jinnah were all Islamic nationalists all advocated for an Islamic state.

Jinnah himself even confirms that Pakistan would be a state based on "pure social justice and Islamic... Islamic socialism... not other -isms"

 
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"1+1 = 2" was true back in 1000 AD just as it is true in 2014. Truth is truth and Islam is the greatest way to live and to govern a state whether we're talking 1400 years ago, today or tomorrow.

There is a reason why Baghdad under Islam was once the centre of world learning and Islamic states like Al-Andalus were 700 years ahead of the rest of Europe technologically and socially.



Religion defines a significant amount of the culture of both Muslim and non-Muslim nations. Religion dictates what we eat and how we prepare our food, what we wear, our social habits, etc...

Have you ever heard of something called a "civil war"? The US went through one, France had one, China had one, etc... when did "borders" or "resources" or even a common ethnicity ever keep a nation together or prevent its inhabitants from fighting? A nation is defined by its people and a common ideology they share. We are an Islamic Republic and those who are opposed to Islam are always free to live elsewhere.



Interesting...

India is supposedly "secular" nation yet not only is it a backward undeveloped state it will remain one for the well foreseeable future.

Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Qatar, Malaysia, etc... are not a "secular" states yet they're by far more developed than the secular India whose citizens, particularly Hindus, walk over each other trying to migrate to Muslim states.

It also seems that Indian "secularism" has done nothing but increase peoples suffering:
hy9l8g0gkkaw90feqfqfeg.png

Keeping state and religion separated is not enough if the people put too much emphasis on religion. Religion is everywhere in Indian politics and its a burden for development.

And SA is a backward state.... with its medieval era laws and punishments, religious courts and other things. The only thing that made them rich is oil.
 
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Keeping state and religion separated is not enough if the people put too much emphasis on religion. Religion is everywhere in Indian politics and its a burden for development.
And SA is a backward state.... with its medieval era laws and punishments, religious courts and other things. The only thing that made them rich is oil.

So you're now saying that India isn't actually "secular" (i.e. in name only)? Keep coming up with one excuse or another for India's failings but the fact is that secularism, like democracy, does not work.

Interestingly those "medieval era laws and punishments, religious courts and other things" have resulted in lower crime rates in Saudi Arabia particularly compared to a nation like India or even western nations like the US.

Odd how Saudi Arabia (or nations like Malaysia, Qatar, Brunei, etc...) are so backward that tens of millions of Indians, particularly you Hindus, want to work and live there.

Why are you hating on Saudi's for their oil wealth? India had hundreds of billions of tons of coal that powered your nations industries since well before '47 alongside tens of millions of acres of arable land, lots of fresh water, etc... all advantages that the Saudi's never had.
 
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So you're now saying that India isn't actually "secular" (i.e. in name only)? Keep coming up with one excuse or another for India's failings but the fact is that secularism, like democracy, does not work.
India is secular. Its embedded in our constitution. That does not mean that religion does not play a huge role in public as well as our private lives.

Secularism is the reason why India held together and why we have come so far, while religion has been and is a huge burden on development

Interestingly those "medieval era laws and punishments, religious courts and other things" have resulted in lower crime rates in Saudi Arabia particularly compared to a nation like India or even western nations like the US.

Those lower crime rates are a result of terror and rampant abuses of basic human rights and freedom. We are talking about a country run by a few individuals in which women cannot drive cars in the 21st century!

Its the complete opposite of progress.
 
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Odd how Saudi Arabia (or nations like Malaysia, Qatar, Brunei, etc...) are so backward that tens of millions of Indians, particularly you Hindus, want to work and live there.
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That has domestic as well as other reasons which are not linked to those nations being theocratic states. As I said earlier, the only reason SA has come so far, and I am not hateful against it cause they made the most out of it, is because of their oil.

And its also odd why you have left the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to go to Canada, which is a beacon of secularism.

PS: I am not Hindu.
 
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If you find yourself thinking or looking to Islam (or any other religious scripture) to find a way to live your life - then you are already in problem.

In my life so far I have not felt the need or never bothered to look at any religious scripture to know how to live my life.

You don't need interpretation from any scripture or book to live your life. Go search for it and your and your country would be a mess, as the entire day of an individual and the entire focus on a nation would be wasted on finding the right way of living. I mean there are other important things to do in life then a ETERNAL ENDLESS debate on what's right as per the scripture.

Can anyone give me one version of what's correct and what's not as per Islam. One universal version accepted by everyone without any debate. If not then as the debate itself is ETERNAL, so the conflict will itself be ETERNAL. But what if no one asks what is the right way? Only then there will be no conflict. Till you keep searching for the answer on what is right, the conflict would go on endlessly.

Have you ever seen a single thread on who is the true hindu or what a hindu must do? But world over in Islamic world, the biggest question being discussed by everyone is what is the right way of life and what a Muslim should do or not do. I mean is this debate even worth it? and do anyone think that this debate can ever end?

Questions like what is the right way of living have no answer. You seek them in any book, and all you would get is disillusionment. Worse if people start forcing their interpretation on others in the name of God/Religion.

how to live is very simple. Live and enjoy the short life while being a good person. Do you really need to do more then this in life? :D

I don't see any debate in hindus life on what a hindu should do. But in Islamic world (at least since the time I have noticed) the debate is still open, on what a Muslim should do, and this is an endless debate.
 
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And its also odd why you have left the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to go to Canada, which is a beacon of secularism.

Exactly when did Canada become secular?

The Canadian government had engaged in cultural genocide through a policy of kidnapping native American children and forcing both Christianity and English on them via the Indian residential school system which they had the Catholic Church administer on their behalf and the last of which was just closed in 1996.

Furthermore, unlike schools for other religious denominations, the Canadian government funds the Catholic school board.

My dad never “left” Pakistan with the intention of never returning in fact it's the exact opposite. He came to Canada when he was a young adult on a full scholarship to study here, was offered citizenship shortly after and upon graduating at the top of his class he was offered a very high paying job which is why he stayed. He married and had a family more than a decade later and I was born/raised in Canada. Suffice it to say we're not refugees and are extremely proud to be Pakistanis.

That has domestic as well as other reasons which are not linked to those nations being theocratic states. As I said earlier, the only reason SA has come so far, and I am not hateful against it cause they made the most out of it, is because of their oil.

What "domestic as well as other reasons" are you referring to?

Furthermore, can you explain to me why there is such a large disparity between Venezuela and Saudi Arabia?

Venezuela is a country with a population almost the exact same size as Saudi Arabia (about 30 million), has larger proven crude oil reserves on top of a host of other resources the Saudi's don't have (ex. abundant fresh water which also lends to increased agricultural pontential, timber, gold, etc...) yet it's nations GDP per capita is half that of the Saudi's and suffers from exponentially more crime (ex. murders, rapes, drugs, etc...). If Saudi's are wealthy “because of their oil” then by your definition Venezuela should be significantly better off than the Saudi's.

In terms of resources India has had far more to work with than Saudi Arabia ever had.

Indians had hundreds of millions of tons of coal (your coal deposits alone in terms of barrels of oil equivalent exceed Saudi Arabia's oil deposits), hundreds of billions of cubic meters of fresh water, tens of millions of acres of arable land along with other huge mineral deposits (ex. iron ore, gold, etc...). Yet India is undeveloped and poor and Saudi Arabia isn't.

Saudi's didn't succeed just because they had oil otherwise India would have been more than one large slum and Venezuela would be far richer than the Saudi's considering all it had to work with.
 
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i hope the OP has the balls to really see and say the reality - apart from the sugar coating - my take on an islamist world is that such a retarded world is an apartheid world, is a genocide world, is a religious and a minority intolerant world. The ideal islamist world is under ISIS, Boko haram, taliban, TTP and Al Shabaab because they are the real blue blooded islamists..and I hope the non muslim world rejects these crazy lunatics and blows them up to kingdom come.

Terrorist organizations like the TTP have been conducting their terrorist activities in the name of religion for a long time. Thousands of innocent people have fallen victim to their evil ideology in Pakistan alone. To make matters worse, they regularly boast about the killings and try to make everyone believe that they are fighting for a cause. Unfortunately for them, people are no longer buying their propaganda and their long list of crimes has proven that they are the enemies of peace. According to the recent poll by PEW research, a majority of Pakistanis reject terrorists’ ideology and stand against extremism in the country. You can click the link below and read the full article:

Most Pakistanis fear extremism, dislike Taliban: survey - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

At the same time, our governments have been working side by side in regard to our shared peace objectives in the region. We share a common stance against terrorism and refuse to bow down to those who pose a threat to the safety of our nations.


Ali Khan

Digital Engagement Team, USCENTCOM
 
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Terrorist organizations like the TTP have been conducting their terrorist activities in the name of religion for a long time. Thousands of innocent people have fallen victim to their evil ideology in Pakistan alone. To make matters worse, they regularly boast about the killings and try to make everyone believe that they are fighting for a cause. Unfortunately for them, people are no longer buying their propaganda and their long list of crimes has proven that they are the enemies of peace. According to the recent poll by PEW research, a majority of Pakistanis reject terrorists’ ideology and stand against extremism in the country. You can click the link below and read the full article:

Most Pakistanis fear extremism, dislike Taliban: survey - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

At the same time, our governments have been working side by side in regard to our shared peace objectives in the region. We share a common stance against terrorism and refuse to bow down to those who pose a threat to the safety of our nations.


Ali Khan

Digital Engagement Team, USCENTCOM

Well said, Sir.
 
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