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Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

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Not really, Israel has a lot secular and modern institutions.

But on the other hand, its religious foundations are also responsible for endless violence and misery in the middle east for more than 6 decades

The real question is whether Religion and State are separate or not.
 
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There is difference between DEEN and religion. What you mentioned about Islamists is basically "Islam as a theocracy mindset" with Mullahs, sermon giver, preaching crap as shariah, sunnisn, wahibism, shiaism, and Islamic church as center peace. Ironically Islam is against this mambo jambo, rather a System of Life. Now why the West is afraid of Islam? Because, it clashes with Capitalism or Communism due to its universality, and social welfare concepts. Having said that, these concepts are beyond the domain of pseudo-intellectual that in todays world are wrongly named as Islamists, rather should be known as mad-idiots.
 
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Any nation which uses religion in its fundamental structures is damned to remain a backward underdeveloped state.

based on what ?

The problem of the so called Muslim countries is that :

THEY DO NOT FOLLOW ISLAM JUT USE IT AS A COVER TO FOOL PEOPLE AND THE OTHER REASON IS CORRUPTED LEADERS .
 
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based on what ?

The problem of the so called Muslim countries is that :

THEY DO NOT FOLLOW ISLAM JUT USE IT AS A COVER TO FOOL PEOPLE + CORRUPTED LEADERS .

Thats the excuse that comes for the rescue of any failed system. What do you think are communists ranting about these days?
 
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Thats the excuse that comes for the rescue of any failed system. What do you think are communists ranting about these days?

My friend , Read Islam's History especially prophet's and Ali's leadership , You'll get what real Islamic government and system is .

These Muslim leaders , from mullahs in Iran , Kings in Arab countries and recently Caliphates are all corrupted thieves that have been stealing nation's wealth under the cover of religion .
 
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Thank you for your well wishes. Nope, I certainly am not an Islamist. In fact, I am not even Muslim. A resident of Gaza thanking the IDF ? You certainly must be delusional. Look at the pictures posted and confirm that comment ? I guess that baby blown to smithereens must be so grateful to the IDF yeah ? As a Hindu I do believe that a baby killed has incurred no adverse karma and is therefore destined to Swarga (Heaven) but surely it would be stretching my religion a bit to thank the IDF for bombing defenseless little babies in Gaza to death?

Thank you for your well wishes. Nope, I certainly am not an Islamist. In fact, I am not even Muslim. A resident of Gaza thanking the IDF ? You certainly must be delusional. Look at the pictures posted and confirm that comment ? I guess that baby blown to smithereens must be so grateful to the IDF yeah ? As a Hindu I do believe that a baby killed has incurred no adverse karma and is therefore destined to Swarga (Heaven) but surely it would be stretching my religion a bit to thank the IDF for bombing defenseless little babies in Gaza to death?

Best of luck being a non muslim in syria, iraq, pakistan, somalia, libya, nigeria, sudan, somalia or in most muslim countries, I doubt you are a hindu, if so a highly delusional one who doesnt realize that 80 million hindus were killed by muslims in India and earstwhile Pakistan for not converting or because their god said so.
 
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Multani,
With due respect, we have only advanced in technology. I ask you that what is so new in twentieth century? except our paper letters and pigeons for communication are transformed into TABLETS,our paper fans are converted into electrical fan.Our khas ki tatti is transformed into air conditioner.
However,our western economical banking system is still centuries old as it depends upon riba system.This so called democratic system is centuries old and highly criticized by great philosopher Plato himself:

According to Plato's five regime:
Plato uses the "democratic man" to represent democracy. The democratic man is the son of the oligarchic man. Unlike his father, the democratic man is consumed with unnecessary desires. Plato describes necessary desires as desires that we have out of instinct or desires that we have in order to survive. Unnecessary desires are desires we can teach ourselves to resist such as the desire for riches. The democratic man takes great interest in all the things he can buy with his money. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it. His life has no order or priority.
According to Plato,democracy is finally degenerated into tyranny.

I see no advancement in society nor I find better system in replacement.I see that parents are still burying their baby girls alive.I am still seeing modern day urban man in raping and involved in corruption.
I see countries like Israel(not accepted by Pakistan) involved in worse violations of human laws ever.I am unable to differentiate between radicalized Israel and TTP which are extremists yet they claim to be modern and better then Arabs.
I am still seeing people in state of bewilderment, bamboozlement and frustration.
I see that today's modern man is well equipped with information but is not enriched with human moral -worse then animal and yet he blames religion without realizing that he lacks intelligence like Lucifer to understand the actual message of God.Today's modern man-what a joke,still lives in caves and manipulates /fails to understand religion and lacks intelligence to use it as a tool for success.

Regards

In fact Israel is the biggest terrorist state that legitimizes occupation based on 2014 standards [ who made them? taken as axioms?] ! Heck the Greeks, like Aristotle knew better and seem modern and applicable even today. These are not 2014 standards for human beings.

About what Israel is doing, clearly, the world cannot see this. It is said in Islamic eschatology, that during the end of times, the world will be upside down. This is one of the meanings of Dajjal. He appears good from the outside, but whats inside is refuse. People's morals will make a U-Turn. Evil will be accepted and appear good, and good will be rejected because it appears bad.

It is a Sahih Hadith that each successive time will be worse than the one before until Imam Mahdi AS comes. Worse in terms of morals as you have pointed out. Morally, the wold is going down. There was this thread about milk production. I pointed out the degree to which fake milk exists in Pakistan. And millions of Pakistanis boil and drink the half fake milk [ mixed in water ]. Isnt this illegal? Last time i heard that in Karachi they are mixing flour with earth or some other materials to increase its volume and sell it to the people. Most Pakistanis, who live in the cities, might be eating illegal food daily.

Imam Abu Hanifa RA did not eat meat in Kufa for 7 years or so [ not sure exactly ]. Because he had credible evidence that meat in the market might be illegal, because he had heard with evidence that sheep in Kufa were stolen by the Khuza'il tribe around the city in southern Iraq. He knew that sheep would probably live around 7 years. So should Pakistanis stop eating roti or drinking milk because of haraam going into their stomachs [ mixed up foods called "milawat" in Urdu ]

And the fact that the Pakistani government hasnt been able to do anything about this, and the Mullahs in the country as well from whichever group.

This sort of problem does not exist in the West because they have law and order, but how much of the pharmaceuticals, food products, and other stuff being sold in US, for example, is FDA approved based on the moral benefit. Tonnes of products are not even FDA approved for many of the claims they make.

The advancement in society that westerners usually talk about is summed up in the works of Carl Sagan. He called for annulling superstition [ religion ].

@Slav Defence bro, like you have graciously pointed out, indeed the advancement in society today is just technological. Not moral, not societal.

Social Systems in the west are in shambles. Divorce rates are sky rocketing, and are now sky rocketing among Muslims too. Children are increasingly getting destroyed with addictions, psychiatric issues, and family break-ups. The institution of marriage is slowly dying away.

That is why brother, like I have understood what you said, we should thank Allah that He has given us the gift of His religion, and we should use it to study how to deal with the issues of 2014, and improve our nation state as Pakistanis.

The concept of the "Nation State", i feel, means upholding and progressing morally. We as Pakistanis have the chance to be a light to the world as a nation state because we are doubly blessed. We know about 2014 issues, as seen on this forum, and we have Allah and knowledge of Him.

All sufis say, that a man who knows Himself, knows God.

On this point, @Jungibaaz , the moderator, is correct to point out that most [ legit] scholars in Pakistan are still largely illiterate about worldly issues and as such are stuck in previous centuries. They cannot be relied upon to solve the issues of 2014. Because they live in a largely irrelevant world as pointed out by the OP @FaujHistorian That is why people in Pakistan never vote for them in politics. Because the common man knows this unconsciously. It is human fitrah.

The islamic scholars in Pakistan are largely distant to modern reality, and so are most of the politicians. Both the groups are filled with corrupt people additionally. Which adds gasoline to the fire.
 
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There isn't enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it to imaginary beings.
. . .-Nietzsche
Multani,
With due respect, we have only advanced in technology. I ask you that what is so new in twentieth century? except our paper letters and pigeons for communication are transformed into TABLETS,our paper fans are converted into electrical fan.Our khas ki tatti is transformed into air conditioner.
However,our western economical banking system is still centuries old as it depends upon riba system.This so called democratic system is centuries old and highly criticized by great philosopher Plato himself:

According to Plato's five regime:
Plato uses the "democratic man" to represent democracy. The democratic man is the son of the oligarchic man. Unlike his father, the democratic man is consumed with unnecessary desires. Plato describes necessary desires as desires that we have out of instinct or desires that we have in order to survive. Unnecessary desires are desires we can teach ourselves to resist such as the desire for riches. The democratic man takes great interest in all the things he can buy with his money. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it. His life has no order or priority.
According to Plato,democracy is finally degenerated into tyranny.

I see no advancement in society nor I find better system in replacement.I see that parents are still burying their baby girls alive.I am still seeing modern day urban man in raping and involved in corruption.
I see countries like Israel(not accepted by Pakistan) involved in worse violations of human laws ever.I am unable to differentiate between radicalized Israel and TTP which are extremists yet they claim to be modern and better then Arabs.
I am still seeing people in state of bewilderment, bamboozlement and frustration.
I see that today's modern man is well equipped with information but is not enriched with human moral -worse then animal and yet he blames religion without realizing that he lacks intelligence like Lucifer to understand the actual message of God.Today's modern man-what a joke,still lives in caves and manipulates /fails to understand religion and lacks intelligence to use it as a tool for success.
So,it is better that we don't talk about modernism because there is nothing modern in twentieth century. Infact, we must review our definition about modernism first,and instead if whining about old and new,we must analyze best system to be implemented so that we could live with peace and prosperity.

Regards
r u trying to say despite advancement in science ,human morality has taken a nose dive..?
 
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If I exhibited all bluster like ''The Buddhist world must unite, have visa free borders, station nukes in all countries with multilateral agreements, have their own standards of Buddhist human rights, arm every nation to the teeth, have a standing Buddhist peacekeeper force'' etc etc, how does it sound?

And the ''buddhist world'' is far far less diverce than the muslim world, far less divided, far less violent.
 
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Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

In 2014, religion does not define the basis of a nation state, borders do, culture does, and resources unique to those borders do.
But Pakistan was formed purely on religious basis - A separate country and identity for Muslims. Though the founder Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state, this did not happen and the situation now has deteriorated to internecine war erupting between Muslims themselves! It's religion that controls most everyone's lives in Pakistan, exacerbated by the shenanigans of the self styled Mullahs who think they're God's own representatives.

The tragedy is that most follow them like sheeple. Whither nationhood?
 
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From time to time,a number of developed states had relied on religion to form their nationalist struggle apart from extracting the spirit of unity from common language and race. But after unifying as a nation, the states never allowed these factors to intervene in defining their foreign policies or compromising national strategic interests except few exceptions in few East European countries. The definition of nation works well for a single state but when multiple third world states tries to act like a single nation it has been proved to be a failed experiment in most of the cases.
 
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My friend , Read Islam's History especially prophet's and Ali's leadership , You'll get what real Islamic government and system is .

These Muslim leaders , from mullahs in Iran , Kings in Arab countries and recently Caliphates are all corrupted thieves that have been stealing nation's wealth under the cover of religion .

Problem is the system was person driven. You can get such prophet once in a thousand years. You cannot expect that every ruler of Islamic world will be leading with his stature and capability
 
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