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Is secularism to be blamed for lack of Indian Military motivation?

I am not punjabi. But yes you right I have somewhat Rajput and North Indian ancestory. I have fair colour and strong built. And of course, I feel my self to be a better fighter than Southern guys. But still, I like southern Indian people. Intelligent and pure jems of sub continent.
Hahhahaha!

You are delusional.

Tulavas, Cholas, Pandyas, Rashtrakutas, Satvanhas etc achieved more than you people who claim to be related to foreign invaders. Moghuls and Turks(not the present day turkish)were not your people. They were of central Asian mongloid stock.

You can play pretend all you want.
 
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Indian military follows secular principles. It may sound good on paper but secularism is bland and does not motivate people to fight. It may work fine in civilian space but certainly not in military space.

On the other hand Pakistan Military is based on Islamic principles which acts as a booster drug as they believe they are fighting and dying for their religion.
Do you want to look at your neighbor China and see whether is has motivation to win a war?
 
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Hahhahaha!

You are delusional.

Tulavas, Cholas, Pandyas, Rashtrakutas, Satvanhas etc achieved more than you people who claim to be related to foreign invaders. Moghuls and Turks(not the present day turkish)were not your people. They were of central Asian mongloid stock.

You can play pretend all you want.
I said Rajput. Where did I related my self with Mughals etc
 
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I said Rajput. Where did I related my self with Mughals etc
There is a difference b/w Hindu rajputs who fought and rajputs who were forcibly converted. And most rajputs were cowards. Nothing to be proud of.
 
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Are Punjabi Muslims martial? Do they have a history of war and conquest or at least of resistance to conquest? I ask because there’s no evidence of their martial character in our history. No general, no subedar, no thanedar, no wazir, no bakhshi of the Mughal empire was a Punjabi Muslim so far as I know.

I might be wrong about this but there are only two Punjabi Muslims named in Mughal texts. The first is Kamaal Khan Gakkhar, who submitted (without fighting) to Akbar in 1576, according to Akbarnama. The second is Jalal Khan Gakkhar, an old man named among the victims by Jahangir in a skirmish with Afghans in 1620. A third reference is indirect, the name of the author of Shah Jahan’s Padishahnama is Shaikh Abdul Hamid “Lahori”. The Ain-e-Akbari has one joint reference to Janjuas and Awans, calling them tribes conquered by Afghans. There are of course Punjabi Hindus (mainly Khatris) who fought for the Mughals with distinction. Like Todar Mal, who led the sapping at the siege of Chittorgarh against the Sisodiya Rajputs, and also settled the revenue system for Akbar. Maathir ul Umara says Todar Mal was born in Lahore, though British scholars thought this was Laharpur in Awadh.

Where are the Punjabi Muslims? The fact is that the Punjabi Muslim is a convert mainly from the peasantry (Jat) which is not martial. General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is Gakkhar, a caste that claims Rajput ancestry. The second Rohtas fort was built by Sher Khan Suri to pacify the Gakkhars. In his Tuzuk, Jahangir makes the remark in passing that the Gakkhars are warlike, but adds that they only fight among themselves. Meanwhile Rajput, Afghan, Maratha, Sikh, Jat (Hindu) and tribal Hindu generals all fought for and against Mughal armies. Rajputs had to be continually submitted by force, except for the loyal Kachwahas of Ambar (Jaipur). Right down to Aurangzeb, according to Maasir-e-Alamgiri, Mewar’s Sisodiyas and Marwar’s Rathors resisted the emperor. I clarify here that Muslims other than Punjabis fought the Mughals, and some very well.

Uttar Pradesh’s Rohilla Afghans were enemies of the Mughals and one of them (Najibud Daulah) ruled from Mughal Delhi for 10 years. Turkish-speaking Turani Sunnis and Farsi-speaking Irani Shias were the most important parties in the Mughal court. The former ranked as better fighters than the latter, who were better administrators. The fiercest Indian-origin Muslims were Shias, the Syeds of Barha (in Uttar Pradesh). The Maratha light cavalry was devastating and ended Muslim rule over India. The Sikhs captured Punjab and raided west up to Kabul and east up to the Doab. The Jats south of Delhi made life miserable for the later Mughals. Even the Baniya general Hemu showed martial character, almost ending Mughal rule before falling at the second battle of Panipat.

What exactly did the Punjabi Muslim do? Invaders who got past Peshawar could then only be stopped at Karnal or Panipat because they went through Punjab undisturbed. It is true that the armies of both Nadir Shah and Ahmed Shah Abdali were harassed in Punjab on their return with Mughal booty, but their attackers were Sikhs, not Muslims. Punjab was a quiet state. Punjabi Muslims neither rebelled against Mughal Delhi nor fought any invader whether Afghan or Persian. Was this because the Punjabi did not want to fight other Muslims? Not really, because he did not even resist being conquered easily by Sikhs.

It is the Englishman who 150 years ago gave the Punjabi Muslim a rifle and taught him how to use it. But this did not require any martial background. The British Bengal army was full of UP Brahmins (like Mangal Pandey). It is only after this formation of the modern regiments, that Punjabi Muslims are called martial by writers like GF MacMunn. After the English left, the record of Punjabi Muslims at war under their own generals is not sterling. I count one draw and one loss and I’m being charitable. Against the Pashtun Talib the record is not encouraging, despite the thousands of martyrs. Nadir Shah said of Indian Muslims after the battle of Karnal that they “know how to die, but not how to fight”.

This is fine and many states of India are not martial. Few soldiers were produced by Bengal’s Hindus for instance, and not many by Gujarat even today. But they don’t have the militant bombast of the Punjabi Muslim (who apparently equals 10 Hindus). I’m just wondering what this bombast is based on because I cannot figure it out.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/444417/is-the-pakistan-army-martial/

Which Indian do I believe:

"The Awans have a strong martial tradition and are famous for their bravery. They were prominent in the armies of the Slave Dynasty and the Khilji dynasty during the Delhi Sultanate period. Awans also held prominent military positions during the Mughal era. As per Denzil Ibbetson, the Awans may well have accompanied the forces of Babur and the Awans of Jalandhar, who claimed to have shifted from the Salt Range at the behest of among the early Emperors of Delhis, were particularly notable for being in the imperial service at Delhi. In the early nineteenth century, among the most mighty men in Delhi was Malik Durrab Khan Awan."

Marital races of undivided India, page 200, by Vidya Prakash Tyagi.
 
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@ Nilu pule you would be banned for your username alone in any decent tamil forum :rofl:
 
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Which Indian do I believe:

"The Awans have a strong martial tradition and are famous for their bravery. They were prominent in the armies of the Slave Dynasty and the Khilji dynasty during the Delhi Sultanate period. Awans also held prominent military positions during the Mughal era. As per Denzil Ibbetson, the Awans may well have accompanied the forces of Babur and the Awans of Jalandhar, who claimed to have shifted from the Salt Range at the behest of among the early Emperors of Delhis, were particularly notable for being in the imperial service at Delhi. In the early nineteenth century, among the most mighty men in Delhi was Malik Durrab Khan Awan."

Marital races of undivided India, page 200, by Vidya Prakash Tyagi.
All speculation! No solid stuff.


Reminds of pathans who claim to br the bravest on the earth. Got destroyed by Greeks, Mongols and pretty much everyone else. Yet false pride stays.
 
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All speculation! No solid stuff.


Reminds of pathans who claim to br the bravest on the earth. Got destroyed by Greeks, Mongols and pretty much everyone else. Yet false pride stays.

So which is the holiest indian who's words are true? The ones that matches your point of view?
 
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So which is the holiest indian who's words are true? The ones that matches your point of view?
I don't know much about avan ir whoever those sheep herders are.

But thing I know people of that region converted at swordpoint. Such people cannot claim to be descendants of brave warrior.
 
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I don't know much about avan ir whoever those sheep herders are.

But thing I know people of that region converted at swordpoint. Such people cannot claim to be descendants of brave warrior.

Haha, what's wrong with sheep herding? It's an honest living, much better than being a sneaky baniya.

Yes, we were all converted on sword point, and now we will use the same sword to convert our hindu brethren in India, inshAllah.
 
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Haha, what's wrong with sheep herding? It's an honest living, much better than being a sneaky baniya.

Yes, we were all converted on sword point, and now we will use the same sword to convert our hindu brethren in India, inshAllah.
A baniya founded your country. Be grateful to your masters.
 
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