Is Pakistani military taking note of recent conflicts, technologies and tactics?

[S A L M A N.]

no matter how much their thinking has been shaped by WoT, or no matter how busy the COAS is, the army is a huge organization. it must have a think-tank that looks into these matters and advises the planners accordingly. so, either that think-tank is useless, or the planners are.

it appears as if they are living in a bubble, and refuse to listen to others. similar things have been witnessed by those who work in nescom. seniors are not willing to change/adapt new technologies. higher ups are not interested in doing any innovation or anything new, they do what the army tells them, or what they already know.

Agreed. This is basically what I was trying to imply.
The army is a huge lumbering bureaucracy and like any bureaucracy, it is resistant to change.
Both the PAF and PN have made good progress as far as independent research-based policy advisory is concerned by setting up independent but focused think-tanks such as the CASS (PAF) and NIMA (PN/Bahria University).
The PA also needs to leverage the qualified human resource available at NUST institutions (NIPS and NIPCONS). It is a great tragedy that the PA has been unable to utilize independant researchers and policy experts in order to guide its procurement and operational matters.

Fairly simple solution to that (but may require a bit of courage): implement a policy that the military chiefs cannot approach the President, PM and other ministers directly. any and all communications must be handled by MoD and the Minister of Defence. Briefings to the press etc. must also be given by the ministry staff, not by generals. also, post the next chairman joint chiefs from other forces and not from the army.

That is only possible when the defence minstry bureacracy is totally civilian AND academically qualified in the area of defence and strategic affairs. An example would be Dr Moeed Yusuf - the defence ministry must be staffed by experts like him, who bring an academic and policymaking experience to balance the field experience of the military. With the defence ministry staffed by retired generals and colonels, what you suggest can not be done.

 

[S.Y.A]

That is only possible when the defence minstry bureacracy is totally civilian AND academically qualified in the area of defence and strategic affairs.

again, that is to be done by the incumbent govt ( and as i said, requires a bit of courage on their part).

 

[S.Y.A]

The PA also needs to leverage the qualified human resource available at NUST institutions (NIPS and NIPCONS). It is a great tragedy that the PA has been unable to utilize independant researchers and policy experts in order to guide its procurement and operational matters.

Generals know best. now someone will come and say that they are career soldiers, and know more than anyone else about how to fight a war, and therefore all of us and the people in the think-tanks are wrong.

 

[Armchair]

It seems @PanzerKiel is on vacation so let me try to think what he would say:

1. PA is rapidly advancing in net-centric warfare and in close coordination with China. They now have a full modern battle command system similar to NATO. Pak also have progressed (classified) on EW.
2. Drones are going to be important but don't let the present scenario fool you. In an India-Pak war, things will be far more advanced that Libya / Syria / Armenia / etc. Both sides have gigantic number of air defense assets. Drones will play a far smaller role than in the aforementioned wars.
3. Nevertheless, Pak does have drones, and purchases of UCAVs are already signed for and in the process of being delivered from China. Also, local drones are also being looked at.
4. PA has massively upgraded its doctrine and tactics, both in terms of defense and offense. If you have access to google maps and know what to look at, you can literally see the results of this massive change. Hint: it is even visible from space.

Okay so that was me trying to think of what @PanzerKiel would be thinking but here are some of my own thoughts that he may not actually be thinking of:

1. Pak needs to develop a mass produced tank that can complement the VT-4s and AKs. Perhaps a 2 man tank with HMDs, a 40mm autocannon and 8x ATGMs. Cheap, easy to mass produce.
2. NLOS is a major upgrade and can play an important role. Low cost NLOs missiles, could be a game changer.
3. POF needs to be fixed and a local firearm developed.
4. Helicopters are urgently needed, both for replacing ageing fleet and for expanding same fleet.
5. PAA needs a CAS aircraft component in decent numbers to go with the UCAVs.
6. Increasing airpower and precision munition can also be countered with a large number of drive-able dummy tanks.

 

[Path-Finder]

so the Azeri are using harpy?

 

[CrazyZ]

Loitering munitions being used by the Azeri is very intriguing. Short range AD is a critical need now a days.

 

[Cuirassier]

what Air OPs of the Army Aviation did in '65 and '71 can be done by drone detachments today. the former directed fire, the latter can direct and carry out fire too. exciting and depressing at the same time for the PA. augmenting drone assets into organized formations will be an interesting task. while the regular line infantry battalions do have sections of quadcopters, manning armed drones would require specialised troops; could make squadrons or companies under an Army Aviation Major? One Company per Brigade sounds solid, amirite?

 

[Raja Porus]

Pakistan should opt for ifvs armed with atgms along with the tanks

 

[Marker]

Multiple recent conflicts

Syria
Yemen
Armenia- Azerbaijan

What we have seen is smart use of ATGMs nullify armour

Smart use of multiple drones decimate your enemy without risking your soldiers and hardware and jets etc which then can be reserved for if and when the conflict gets hot


is the Pakistani military taking note and adapting our fighting doctrine appropriately?

we have a Massive stock of Baktiar Shikans and missiles but have we any more modern or advanced ATGMs

Has PAKISTAN taken note of how drones are being used against enemy armour especially considering one of our closest allies is at the forefront of new drone technology and tactics, we have heard of drone development as part of project Azm but are getting anywhere with the multiple drone system countries like Turkey, Israel are now utilising

Let it be a surprise to our enemy.

27 Feb 2019 was a very small trial.

1. Use of smart SoWs 100 kms away from the target.
2. Use of EW/ECM and AWACS combo to assist offensive and defensive missions. A complete enemy comm and radar denial.

 

[Awan68]

Pakistan effectively rendered IAF blind in feburary skirmish and people still think we are behind in the EW domain.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Do we have loitering munitions? Do we do we?

What is a loitering missile/ammo?

 

[diligence]

Future wars will heavily be dependent on tiny, smart, but numerous drones. The rapid advances in image processing and AI have already turned the tide in favor of drones as demonstrated by turkey in Libya, Syria, and now in Azerbaijan.

Think of Armenians who have extremely well dig in the occupied territories of Azerbaijan. They have been digging in and fortifying their defenses continuously for the last 30 years. They knew that Azeris will be forced to launch an offensive if they really wanted to get their areas back (due to the lack of determination on the part of international community to resolve the issue peacefully) and so they set up vastly sophisticated defenses in the area. The significant losses suffered by the Azeri military should be of no surprise. Imagine if Azeris didn't have Turkish drones, war planes, and AWACS on their side. Especially Turkish drones has broken the back of Armenian air defenses, well dug-in armor, and command structures.

I believe future wars will can dominated by using smart drones. Think of tens of kamikaze mini-drones, each stuffed with enough munition in their fuselage needed to knock out a tank, swarming a battle field while being wirelessly fed with vital information remotely from a control center. That center is responsible for information fusion sourced from awacs, radars, sats, etc., build a complete picture of the battle field and then feed it to the kamikaze drones. The drones reach the battle field, pick/select their own targets (or these targets may be assigned by the control center), and then hit their targets. These drones have AI based target recognition capability which they use to pinpoint their targets. By thus hitting their targets, these drones bring massive devastation onto the enemy columns. I think similar swarming tactics can be employed in naval and air arms too.

 

[PakFactor]

Future wars will heavily be dependent on tiny, smart, but numerous drones. The rapid advances in image processing and AI have already turned the tide in favor of drones as demonstrated by turkey in Libya, Syria, and now in Azerbaijan.

Think of Armenians who have extremely well dig in the occupied territories of Azerbaijan. They have been digging in and fortifying their defenses continuously for the last 30 years. They knew that Azeris will be forced to launch an offensive if they really wanted to get their areas back (due to the lack of determination on the part of international community to resolve the issue peacefully) and so they set up vastly sophisticated defenses in the area. The significant losses suffered by the Azeri military should be of no surprise. Imagine if Azeris didn't have Turkish drones, war planes, and AWACS on their side. Especially Turkish drones has broken the back of Armenian air defenses, well dug-in armor, and command structures.

I believe future wars will can dominated by using smart drones. Think of tens of kamikaze mini-drones, each stuffed with enough munition in their fuselage needed to knock out a tank, swarming a battle field while being wirelessly fed with vital information remotely from a control center. That center is responsible for information fusion sourced from awacs, radars, sats, etc., build a complete picture of the battle field and then feed it to the kamikaze drones. The drones reach the battle field, pick/select their own targets (or these targets may be assigned by the control center), and then hit their targets. These drones have AI based target recognition capability which they use to pinpoint their targets. By thus hitting their targets, these drones bring massive devastation onto the enemy columns. I think similar swarming tactics can be employed in naval and air arms too.

The swarm drone tactic is being studies by the US Navy:

- Helps deplete enemy air defenses forcing them to fire their ammo
- Helps expose locations of enemy fire
- Allows a pin point targeting of strategic assets on enemy land or sea asset (ships, tanks, etc.)

Some drones might not completely destroy certain assets but could render them immobile and out of action --

 

[CrazyZ]

Future wars will heavily be dependent on tiny, smart, but numerous drones. The rapid advances in image processing and AI have already turned the tide in favor of drones as demonstrated by turkey in Libya, Syria, and now in Azerbaijan.

Think of Armenians who have extremely well dig in the occupied territories of Azerbaijan. They have been digging in and fortifying their defenses continuously for the last 30 years. They knew that Azeris will be forced to launch an offensive if they really wanted to get their areas back (due to the lack of determination on the part of international community to resolve the issue peacefully) and so they set up vastly sophisticated defenses in the area. The significant losses suffered by the Azeri military should be of no surprise. Imagine if Azeris didn't have Turkish drones, war planes, and AWACS on their side. Especially Turkish drones has broken the back of Armenian air defenses, well dug-in armor, and command structures.

I believe future wars will can dominated by using smart drones. Think of tens of kamikaze mini-drones, each stuffed with enough munition in their fuselage needed to knock out a tank, swarming a battle field while being wirelessly fed with vital information remotely from a control center. That center is responsible for information fusion sourced from awacs, radars, sats, etc., build a complete picture of the battle field and then feed it to the kamikaze drones. The drones reach the battle field, pick/select their own targets (or these targets may be assigned by the control center), and then hit their targets. These drones have AI based target recognition capability which they use to pinpoint their targets. By thus hitting their targets, these drones bring massive devastation onto the enemy columns. I think similar swarming tactics can be employed in naval and air arms too.

That's why more advanced short range air defenses have got be looked into. Drones will no doubt be critical going forward. One needs to defend against them.

 

[Marker]

What is a loitering missile/ammo?

A weapon system category in which the munition loiters around the target area for some time, searches for targets, and attacks once a target is located. Loitering munitions enable faster reaction times against concealed or hidden targets that emerge for short periods without placing high-value platforms close to the target area, and also allow more selective targeting as the actual attack mission can be aborted.
Examples
IAI Harop: An anti-radiation drone that can autonomously home in on radio emissions. Rather than holding a separate high-explosive warhead, the drone itself is the main munition.
Delilah missile: A cruise missile or loitering munition designed to target moving and re-locatable targets with a circular error probable (CEP) of 1 metre (3 ft 3 in).