Is Pakistan Willing to Lose America? (NYT)

[Jackdaws]

Why is Pakistan so concerned if India has good relations with Afghanistan?

 

[shahbaz baig]

Why is Pakistan so concerned if India has good relations with Afghanistan?

read my comment number 23.

 

[CBU-105]

You honestly think an extra 4000 is going to make a difference in that hellhole?

No.

Despite the perceived "positive" strategic implications of the Murrican neocons' plans to stay on in Afghanistan forever for India. It is essentially an escalation of a conflict 10k miles from their homeland, vs a hardy tribal ape people.

don't like it, not good, no good precedents..

the golden lining is that Trump really is someone special who is willing to go all in, but only if he can win (not sure if possible) but we can be sure he's set conditions to his war planners.

the MOAB was a teaser/glimpse into what Trump will do to the Afghan Taliban.

do not underestimate how big a gamble he's taken by going against his previous proclamations and staying on in Afghanistan.

Trump is a hyper intelligent deal maker, he probably does see some light at the end of this tunnel.. let's see what happens.

If there's any truth to it to begin with (which I doubt, but might be wrong about) wrt a RAW/NDS/CIA network terrorising Pakistan with islamic suicide blasters etc, Trump will do the right thing and end those programs.

 

[Eagle_storm]

if someone will or not.
I am the first to will.
Killing our people for the sake of illegitimate americans should be stop.

 

[cloud4000]

More importantly is America willing to lose a robust ally like Pakistan. Who had stood by the USA for 70 years only to be sanctioned and bullied, and please don't talk about aid, it is much less than what we have given in just the last 15 years.

You will need to define robust here. Let's be honest, the relationship was never deep, but mostly transactional, even during the good-old days of the 1980s. And once the Cold War was over, so were Pak-US relations...until 9/11. And now we've come full-circle again.

 

[war&peace]

NYT better send a few reporters and ask them to interview 100-1000 people in every major city of Pakistan to get a feel whether Pakistan is ready to loss its blond GF or not?

Pakistan has zero willingness to lose American patronage. Ask your chief of air staff or your admirals and generals if they're willing to ditch their fleets/gear in favour of Chinese goods.

With postponing talks till proper contact, a sit down with the Donald, is established between the two new leaderships in DC and Islamabad/Pindi, Pak are just trying to play a game of measured hardball with dealmaker Trump.

This is a decades old relationship, dating back to almost the conception of the nation state of Pakistan (or shortly thereafter)

At this stage, and after decades of cultivating Pakistan as an ally (including that big win vs the commies in Afghanistan), the US has Pakistan by the balls but it's not like Pak don't have any cards of their own.. geography, logistics for ISAF/NATO equipment supply routes, spilt blood..

Trump is just taking away Pakistan's jihadi 'good taliban' joker card, can't play that one anymore.. or you'll have much to lose.

India, for it's part, has actually done some good work in that country with infra, military equipment/officer training etc, and have managed to gain the goodwill of the anti-taliban warlord leadership.

A neutered/non militant "taliban" might find a fit in the peace process going forward but they are no more an effective blackmail tool. Trump will just level that whole country with MOABs if he has to, he really will, nobody should doubt that.

Trump wants a good outcome in Afghanistan and is willing to put his skin in the game with the troop surge, a big political risk because his core supporters want nothing to do with Afghanistan or any new wars.


That won't work. India built infrastructure in Afghanistan and still exercises extreme restraint in the valley.

If it were like China or other authoritarians, nobody would be allowed to show up when local kids like Burhan Wani are put to rest. They get non lethal pellets in their eyes only because some idiots try and pelt rocks (potentially lethal projectiles) at the security forces.

Pakistan are a problem in Afghanistan, not entirely, but to a large degree of America's making.

Not all bad though. If the US, as a country, can change course so drastically and elect Trump, so can Pakistan. Throw your Afghan talib friends under the bus and make deals with Trump, why not.

USA has affectively been replaced by other options at every level. Whether it is JF17 or next gent J-31/J-20, never had a US sub so navy has always been pretty independent of USA, our deep strike depends on our missile systems, Pakistan never opted for any US MBT so and now with a enough spares to keep our existing F-16s flying for the next 5 years.... I really don't see any more dependency on our dirty blondy..
Rather USA depends on Pakistan whether its NATO supply or Afghanistan.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

NYT better send a few reporters and ask them to interview 100-1000 people in every major city of Pakistan to get a feel whether Pakistan is ready to loss its blond GF or not?


USA has affectively been replaced by other options at every level. Whether it is JF17 or next gent J-31/J-20, never had a US sub so navy has always been pretty independent of USA, our deep strike depends on our missile systems, Pakistan never opted for any US MBT so and now with a enough spares to keep our existing F-16s flying for the next 5 years.... I really don't see any more dependency on our dirty blondy..
Rather USA depends on Pakistan whether its NATO supply or Afghanistan.

Add 10 more years to F-16 spares .
We have enough supply for 15 years this time .
And a plan in place for J-10 and + another one .

 

[war&peace]

Add 10 more years to F-16 spares .
We have enough supply for 15 years this time .

That's good news...our main dependence on F-16 will be until the next gen platform replaces it and that would be 5-10 years including the integration and all other issues.

 

[Storm Force]

False bravado

Pakistanis leaders and generals are panicing over Trump anti Pakistani policy and the increasing influence india is having with USA and Israel.

Deny this all you like.

BUT I HAVE COUNTED 9 DIFFERENT THREADS ON USA & PAKISTAN opened in last 2 weeks,

that is a real concern.

USA in bed with INDIA is win win for Indians ......... no matter how you dress this up

 

[cloud4000]

False bravado

Pakistanis leaders and generals are panicing over Trump anti Pakistani policy and the increasing influence india is having with USA and Israel.

Deny this all you like.

BUT I HAVE COUNTED 9 DIFFERENT THREADS ON USA & PAKISTAN opened in last 2 weeks,

that is a real concern.

USA in bed with INDIA is win win for Indians ......... no matter how you dress this up

Personally, US is saying what it has always been saying: do more or else. The only difference is that it's now coming from the mouth of Trump, who has no capability of diplomatic subtlety, who uses words like a blunt force instrument. Obama said the exact same thing but in a more nuanced way.

He said blunt things about India too. It's Trump's way of speaking.

Once the outrage is out of Pakistan's system, there will be discussions. It may come to something, it may come to nothing. I think people need to calm down before and think with coldness and clarity.

 

[MultaniGuy]

False bravado

Pakistanis leaders and generals are panicing over Trump anti Pakistani policy and the increasing influence india is having with USA and Israel.

Deny this all you like.

BUT I HAVE COUNTED 9 DIFFERENT THREADS ON USA & PAKISTAN opened in last 2 weeks,

that is a real concern.

USA in bed with INDIA is win win for Indians ......... no matter how you dress this up

what is this childish nonsense.

Pakistan is not panicking LOL

 

[Tom M]

More importantly is America willing to lose a robust ally like Pakistan. Who had stood by the USA for 70 years only to be sanctioned and bullied, and please don't talk about aid, it is much less than what we have given in just the last 15 years.

Seriously, why are you guy's always talking about some sacrifice against war on terror ??? Ok, agreed that you have lost over 70K civilians and soldiers in terror attacks during the last 15+ years and I feel rally sad and condemn any terror activity anywhere. But how come so many terrorists were there inside your soil without any check from your civilian or security agencies in the first place ??? Even 140+ innocent kids had to die for them to take any serious action, ever thought why ?????

Regarding the aid, it's like me asking my neighbor to give money since I had cleared garbage/filth from my house, if not the filthy smell could have reached his home as well. I mean is that an excuse ????

 

[jetray]

Has to be

It speaks of brutal Indians occupying Kashmir, It absolves Pakistan of any wrong doings moreover it shows Pakistani survival fears in right perspective by putting all the blame on Indians.

PLUS it is written by a Pakistani columnist

confirmed it is written by a confused pakistani. The title begs but the body gloats.

Title looks as if pakistan is making the decision and as usual he starts playing the victim card. But the decision needs to be taken by US. Pakistan has over played its cards , what else do they have now?

what is this childish nonsense.

Pakistan is not panicking LOL

then why does pakistan even issue statements or try to elicit sympathy from america. Say f*** to murica and move ahead. If america is going to be the loser then why do you even want to do all the convincing, just walk out.

I bet pakistan will lose all the freebies hence they are still sticking around.

 

[shahbaz baig]

I think with Trump at the helm now, they finally are serious.

Trump has already taken a big risk with the troop surge, his base hates it but he's doing it anyway. He'll do it without Pakistan if he has to.

you think ? who the hell are you who think that trump either is serious or not.

here is the fact
U.S supports Taliban offices in Qatar (financial network) and on the other hand U.S dictate to others that fight with Taliban. (hypocrisy).. trump afghan policies are contradicting his own statements. first remove the Taliban offices in Qatar then destroy their financial network then talk for peace. as i told you before U.S never ever wanted to win this war. because U.S never want peace all are dramatic polices toward Afghanistan. Money is nothing for U.S but to show the good image and to get objectives are the real target.

and here are the U.S objectives.
1. pressurize Pakistan to clear the path for U.S
2. pressurize India to invest money so trump can continue his policy toward U.S economy.
3. pressurize Afghanistan that we are not a blank cheque for you which means Afghanistan has to pay back.
4. manage U.S presence at strategic location of Afghanistan for indefinite time.
5. pressurize the region including all major regional powers from within Afghanistan.

and more facts are.
1. U.S could have won this war a long time before. but U.S wants excuse to be present in Afghanistan.
2. Blame every country those oppose the idea of U.S presence in Afghanistan.
3. create proxies so regional countries will be helpless to accept U.S demands.
4. work with ally who has same objective and then kick off.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Seriously, why are you guy's always talking about some sacrifice against war on terror ??? Ok, agreed that you have lost over 70K civilians and soldiers in terror attacks during the last 15+ years and I feel rally sad and condemn any terror activity anywhere. But how come so many terrorists were there inside your soil without any check from your civilian or security agencies in the first place ??? Even 140+ innocent kids had to die for them to take any serious action, ever thought why ?????

Regarding the aid, it's like me asking my neighbor to give money since I had cleared garbage/filth from my house, if not the filthy smell could have reached his home as well. I mean is that an excuse ????

To draw on your analogy. There was no rubbish until the neighbour next door had some low life thugs barge in and terrorised the peaceful people living there. Then these thugs started to accumulate rubbish in the occupied property, joined up with the other neighbour and collectively started to throw rubbish into our garden. At first we asked them to stop but the response was more rubbish being thrown. Until it started to smoulder and burn. We managed to put out the fire out on our side and also threw back a lot of the rubbish from where it came but the thugs failed to put out the fire on their side and then started blaming us for their own failures while at the same time lighting more fires on their rubbish that was now growing even faster because the rubbish had nowhere else to go. Seeing the house burning, the thugs squeal like pigs “Your fault, your fault, we will kill you if you don’t stop throwing back our rubbish”. Then the house burns down, half the neighbours are dead and the others barely alive. Our house and garden is damaged and the thugs pay a little towards it but barely covers the repairs of the walls never mind the rest. We have given you billions as a gift, they remark but we point out their lies but the thugs shrug their shoulders and then get in their caravans and go and do the same to some other poor (most likely to be Muslim) house and start the fires all over again.

Hope t h a t e x p l a I n s i t n o w… but I won’t hold my breath.