Is Pakistan ready for change?

[Solomon2]

Hi,Who gives a fck about that guy--he is not happy---he has moved on---.

Happiness is.....what, exactly?

 

[MastanKhan]

Happiness is.....what, exactly?

HI,

A jewish sabotage on pakistani discussion for a change in the system---. It is fascinating how Solomon sabotaged this discussion by bringing out something totally un-related to the discussion.

 

[war&peace]

HI,

A jewish sabotage on pakistani discussion for a change in the system---. It is fascinating how Solomon sabotaged this discussion by bringing out something totally un-related to the discussion.

That basically makes him a troll and since he single handedly derailed the thread so Pakistani moderators should acknowledge his efforts by handing him a few negative ratings and a boot for some time at least.

 

[T-123456]

*Colonial defeatism dressed as religion is the mating of defeatist mentality and Islam as defined by traditional clergy. That is defeat by West and experiance as subjects of Western order engendered a anti Wetern mindset which distilled hatred of West by turning against anything the West represented. This even took the form of opposition to clothes, manners, habits, ideas of West even if they made perfect sense. In other words do opposite of West meant good even if it meant doing the wrong thing.

This sort of phenomenon is very much evident in the West. I often see people whose roots are from ex colonial countries in UK who perhaps because of racism or other adverse circumstances fall back on a narrative of Islam which is anti everything Western. That is why even on PDF often the biggest cheerleaders for Sharia are members from Pakistan or Bangladesh. This is prime example of defeatism. Having failed to overcome the hurdles they face in wider society they seek solace in a anti Western rhetoric.Although that rhetoric might be called anti-Western in truth it is anti-modern as they would equally clash with Chinese or Japanese ideas with their Sharia driven narrown mindedness.

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

Thank you for the enlightenment---. I am pretty sure that you would remember the time when you the jews got together with the christians and threw out the muslim empire from spain---you guys funded their campaign as well---and then the christians turned on you guys as well---a double whammy---Hehn---they took your money to fight the battles---they saw your money---and declared you enemy of the religion---took your money---took your properties---burnt you on the stake---and then later on---the good old christians----what is it---put you in concentration camps---starved you to death---and according to you guys had gas chambers as well.

So---that was not a happy time for being a jew either---and that went on for centuries---you won't forget russia either and the U S as well 30-40 years ago---.

And now it is a misery for muslims to live in a land forcefully taken over by the jews ( israel ).

Solomon--man---what were you thinking when you posted those comments---.

in the past 200-300 years muslim societies have been slower to adapt to changing times. they have been more intolerant than their non-Muslim peers. it is reflected in the world

While USA has been anti-semitic 70 years ago you cannot compare it with anything in the Muslim world
Jews might not attend Ivy league colleges. But they could go to second tier colleges.

 

[Shah01]

Young sir, I can not agree with you more...religion is indeed a private matter between the believer and believed.

However, as matter of practice I refrain from pursuing such discourse here at PDF for obvious reasons... as it is none of my affair what other people choose to believe...as long as it advance their human condition and their lives become better in every sense...

I do see a change in the offing in your old country.... patience and forbearance...is the required....

It takes decades for decay and backwardness...so shall it take time for forward thinking and progress...

All the very best in your own development and that of your old country...

I also avoid (at least try to) debating such things although the current society is so intolerant that one has to at least try to put forward ideas which could correct this wrong.

Agree it will take a long time before the current way of life/thinking is changed. The dilution process is such that it could take a generation (i.e. 50+ years) to see a true change.

 

[Solomon2]

...It is fascinating how Solomon sabotaged -

Just define your terms and omit the antisemitic drivel and you'll be fine.

 

[MastanKhan]

in the past 200-300 years muslim societies have been slower to adapt to changing times. they have been more intolerant than their non-Muslim peers. it is reflected in the world

While USA has been anti-semitic 70 years ago you cannot compare it with anything in the Muslim world
Jews might not attend Ivy league colleges. But they could go to second tier colleges.

Hi,

It is but natural----those who lose their PERCH have a hard time adjusting to the changing times.

 

[Mentee]

Just define your terms and omit the antisemitic drivel and you'll be fine.

For what my dear non-gentile bro? He didn't kill any Semitic Palestinian or bulldozed his home like some Caucasian polish refugee------

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

It is but natural----those who lose their PERCH have a hard time adjusting to the changing times.

elites in a lot of countries have no reservations on jumping on bandwagons

 

[Solomon2]

Magnificent post.

Bhutto who came after Ayub era was great opportunist. He came from landowning family but used socialism as a ploy to gain mass support. In addition he smelled that the conservative Arab kingdoms were about to get flooded with petrodollars. So he created a pseudo Socialism/Islam to get mass support inside the country, harness the increasingly belligerant religious groups that had toppled Ayub. His continous forays to Arab countries begin the Part 2 of Pakistan's journey to where it is today. The fistula of 1949 (Objective Resolution) now got shot load of injection when Ahmedi's were declared non Muslim's...Bhutto soon found that the horse he had fed was about to run away. -

Indeed. Note that Bhutto for a time fought the movement to declare Ahmedis non-Muslims but gave up the battle, apparently deciding that holding on to the reins of power was more important than holding on to his socialist principles.

 

[wiseone2]

Magnificent post.

Indeed. Note that Bhutto for a time fought the movement to declare Ahmedis non-Muslims but gave up the battle, apparently deciding that holding on to the reins of power was more important than holding on to his socialist principles.

Bhutto was plain opportunist

 

[Bharat Muslim]

This follows from another thread > https://defence.pk/threads/can-pak-ban-china.454561/

UK 1979.

Telephone company. Public ownership. Cost to make calls exorbitant. To get a line you had to wait 3 months. To pay the bill you had to stand in a long queue.Service was terrible. You paid over the top and the customer after being fleeced had to say thank you.

Electricy company. Public ownership. As a kid in 1970s I remember doing my homework using candles to light my bedroom. The problem was the public electric corporations were required to buy coal for power generation from another monopoly. No coal and no lights.

British Coal. Public ownership. 100,000s of working class people worked in public coal mines. Entire towns called "pit towns" depended on the miners. Every third man in these town was a miner. Generations before them since the industrial age began had worked in these pit towns. The mines had long ago stopped being efficient. Too much manpower working well below efficiency but with jobs guranteed, lack of modern technology, working seams that long ago had become uneconomical made the coal twice more expensive than external market. The miners would go on strike regularly decreasing the pathetic productivity even further. The consumer suffered and government bailed out the billions lost of every year.

British Leyland Cars. Public ownership.Cars like Austin Montego, Allegro were byword for poor build quality, rusting within year of purchase, expensive. BLC employed 100,000 of workers in Birmingham most of who sat around fiddling their fingers or having tea and smoking breaks. Again customer being punished with terrible product and government dishing out billions to cover the lost making concerns.

This pattern subsisted across the economy. Millions of people working below par, producing below par prodocts at prices that were too high. The customer suffered with terible choice of product and government suffered billions in having to cover the loss making concerns. The problem was protectionism, too much regulation, too many restrictions. This created a closed off economy that was simply uncompetitive in the world. How was this sustained? By borrowing. UK even had to go to IMF for loans to keep it going from bankrupt as the economy was bleeding the country dry.

May 1979. Margaret Thatcher becomes PM. She sets about restructuring the British economy. To put it bluntly she declares that no protection will be afforded to any part of the economy. The door will open to full competition. Anything that is not able to compete will be allowed to die. The fittest will survive and will grow stronger and faster.

United Kingdom went through profound change. Suddenly all electric companies were privatized. They then sacked excess workers. They went from being fat cows to lean mean athletes. They could buy coal from any source which meant they scoured the world to get imported coal at 40% that British Coal sold it at. The coal industry died overnight. Million plus miners became unemployed. Entite pit towns died and turned into ghost towns. As competition killed 70% of the economic concerns it led to mass unemployment. There was mass civil disorder leading to almost civil war. Entire cities were almost laid to waste.

For example Sheffield went from one of the largest steel producers to seeing most of the mills close down. PM Margaret Thatcher faced incredible pressure to change her policy of "open free trade and competion". By early 1980s almost 25% of the labour force had become reduandant or semi employed as company after company went bankrupt. Facing millions of unemployed workers fighting broke out. Thatcher faced pressure from her ministers to change course. This is what was happening across the country.

There was war on the streets. The police fought running battles with umemployed miners and other works who opposed the opening up of the economy as they knew it would mean their jobs would go. With her ministers starting to weaken in their resolve top open the UK economy PM Thatcher showed what true leadership means, This is when she gave this "this lady does no U-turns" in reply to the advice her ministers gave to change her policy. She persisted.

She then moved to British Airways which like PIA was losing money every year. It was privatized and 80% of workers sacked to turn the company into world winner it is today. The result of this was lie moving all the weeds and then allowing the fresh green healthy saplings take route. Thatcher concentrated on creating a open level playing field where only the fittest would surive. Efficiency, innovation and competiveness was the new mantra. Nothing was holy. If it was not fit it died.

This led to new generation of entreprenuers who took advantage of the new openess to build new companies and compete with the best in the world.


This is exactly what Pakistan needs to do. In those days all the strikers used to complain about Australian Coal, Japanese, German Car manfacturers, South Korean TV manufactuers. The truth was it was not their fault. The fault was within UK which could not compet with them.

Today Pakistan can complain about Chinese imporets or open up and join in the race to be best. Out of it will come a new breed of companies and businessmen who will stand o their feet and compete with the world. Or are people worried that Pakistani's can't compete with the world? Yes, in the short term like UK in 1980s it will suffer but from the other end will come a new rejuvenated country and economy. Pakistan needs to grab the Dragon by the tail, learn from it and outrun it.

Has Pakistan got what it takes? I certainly think so.

@Desert Fox @Chinese-Dragon @AndrewJin @Sinopakfriend

Nice pleasurable read. A bit of economics put in simple layman's English.

 

[Commando III]

InshaALLAH V CAN HOPE FOR ITS BETTERMENT..

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Kaptaan , my brother, how the thesis is going? We await your follow up.

Thank you.

Regards,

SPF