Is Nehru misunderstood?

[nForce]

If there is a central feature of Nehru that I like, it was his genuine secularism, much stronger than his mentor, Gandhi's.

If there is a central feature of Nehru that I dislike, it was his centralising urge; it stultified Indian political development by decades. But others besides he contributed to that centralising tendency; Sardar Patel was one. And they were each of them rather different in character and nature and innate political inclination.

Huh..going by that yardstick, you might as well rate Jinnah as well 5/5 for secularism.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Huh..going by that yardstick, you might as well rate Jinnah as well 5/5 for secularism.

Do you know much about Jinnah? It doesn't seem so.

 

[zebra7]

@Joe Shearer Am I in your ignore list ?

 

[nForce]

Do you know much about Jinnah? It doesn't seem so.

How much do I know about Jinnah ? That's probably an ambiguous and open-ended question. How would you answer that ? Would you say, you know everything ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

First of sorry for disagreeing with you.
How was he more secular than Gandhi ?
He was the one who opposes his daughter Mrs Indira Gandhi marriage with a Parsi Firoz Gandhi, and allow only when inteviene by Gandhi who gives his own name as Gandhi, this is how firoz becomes Firoz Gandhi. Mrs Indira Gandhi wrote a letter which gives the state of mind of her in which very confussed and unhappy and said the whole india is against her marriage.

Are you nuts? Feroze Gandhi always had that name. Where did you dig up this story?

The perception is that he was the great visionary, and set up IIT and understood the importance of education and development, but actually he was benifited from the fact that he was the first prime minster and the leader who took all the credit. He was benifited with the great leaders and visionary leaders who contributed toward the benefits and industralization of India, because they had seen slavery and the conditions of India closely under the leadership of MK gandhi in the quest of independance

You mean to say anybody else would have set up the IITs and would have emphasised education and development? Very interesting. Alternative history is the most noxious of all intellectual pursuits. He was there, he led and there ends the matter. Who else might have done whatever else is irrelevant.

Power Hungry -- Definately -- He dislike Subhash Chander Bose for his popularity. In one rally when both were present, A strong rain starts falling and people gathered there starts running to shelter, than Subhash Bose, called the people, if you are worried from the rain for getting wet, how you will get independance, and people returns and sat in the wet dirt. Nehru was shocked. His reaction when Subhash Chander Bose forming Azad Hind Fauz -- I will be the first man who will face bose with the sword.
Jinnah wants pakistan, but when mk gandhi asked jinnah to become first pm and form the goverment as he like to avoid partition, Nehru prompted, that Hindu are bending too much.

The differences were fundamental and were based on principles. Please read before commenting.

Love for the Country -- No doubt, but I have no doubt that in the heart special love for the kashmiri Pandit, after all he was Kashmiri Pandit. Heard that special IAF planes carry water from Chashma-e-shahi from Kashmir to New Delhi for his consuption. I have tasted that water, and no doubt its a AMRIT, You can full your smotch up to the brim, put cannot fulfill your desire to drink more.

You heard wrong.

But he wants Kashmiri Pandit to remain the enjoyable and upper class in the kashmir, thats why got ready for the Rule-370, and giving J&K special previllage.

Why is it that every fresh crop of youngsters is worse than the previous lot? What is one to do with blinding ignorance like this?

Rule 101 if a king who have no other choice, and the Kabaili and pakistani soldier dressed as the mujaheed are roaming in Barahmullah just 20 KM away from the capital City Srinagar, could demand India to accept his demand.

I couldn't understand.

Rule no. 2, if Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel would have PM at that time would he accept such deal.

If my aunt's plumbing was different, she would have been my uncle.

Rule no. 3 Kashmiri Pandit were the upper class, more intellectual , more rich, more educated, have better land, houses, farms etc. So if other people from other states started coming and settle in the state specially from Punjab, who are better farmer, better businessman, comparatively rich, they would loose such upper state.-- Biggest Blunder done by Nehru, in Kashmir.

Please, please don't post in such threads without reading up on basics. Read up on the Ranbir code, and the restrictions it placed on acquisition of landed property in J&K. It was nothing to do with Nehru.

How much do I know about Jinnah ? That's probably an ambiguous and open-ended question. How would you answer that ? Would you say, you know everything ?

No, but I know a lot. And that is enough to say that Jinnah was a staunch secularist. His leading the Muslims of India and his secularism are two different issues. I suggest you read Ayesha Jalal "Sole Spokesman" first. As well as Jaswant Singh. It isn't useful to borrow from national narratives.

 

[nForce]

No, but I know a lot. And that is enough to say that Jinnah was a staunch secularist. His leading the Muslims of India and his secularism are two different issues. I suggest you read Ayesha Jalal "Sole Spokesman" first. As well as Jaswant Singh. It isn't useful to borrow from national narratives.

Thank you. On my reading list for this weekend.
I really don't understand this..How a proponent of identification of nationality on the basis of religion can be termed secular ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer Am I in your ignore list ?

No. Why? But you will be soon, if you post like you did.

Only one person is on my ignore list, afaik.

Thank you. On my reading list for this weekend.
I really don't understand this..How is a proponent of identification of nationality on the basis of religion can be termed secular ?

We'll talk about it once you've read up a bit.

 

[zebra7]

No. Why? But you will be soon, if you post like you did.

Because you didn't respond to my earlier post and I was expecting that, because I disagree with you, Pls read that.

 

[Spectre]

Arguably Nehru has been leader with the biggest foot-prints till NOW. I guess it isn't too early to say India is coming out of the protective shadow of Nehruvian Principles but this is what the country demands and perhaps what it needs.

@indianBong - Achievements and lack thereof have been ponderously debated in public domain and I am sure there is nothing new I can add to them except my biases. However that said, I remain thankful that we had Nehru as our first Prime Minister.

IMHO it would be more constructive to analyze Nehru's relevance in current times.

Sorry for the cop out

Regards

 

[zebra7]

Are you nuts? Feroze Gandhi always had that name. Where did you dig up this story?



You mean to say anybody else would have set up the IITs and would have emphasised education and development? Very interesting. Alternative history is the most noxious of all intellectual pursuits. He was there, he led and there ends the matter. Who else might have done whatever else is irrelevant.



The differences were fundamental and were based on principles. Please read before commenting.



You heard wrong.



Why is it that every fresh crop of youngsters is worse than the previous lot? What is one to do with blinding ignorance like this?



I couldn't understand.



If my aunt's plumbing was different, she would have been my uncle.



Please, please don't post in such threads without reading up on basics. Read up on the Ranbir code, and the restrictions it placed on acquisition of landed property in J&K. It was nothing to do with Nehru.



No, but I know a lot. And that is enough to say that Jinnah was a staunch secularist. His leading the Muslims of India and his secularism are two different issues. I suggest you read Ayesha Jalal "Sole Spokesman" first. As well as Jaswant Singh. It isn't useful to borrow from national narratives.

Allow me some time, And I will repeat the same with the source.

 

[nForce]

We'll talk about it once you've read up a bit.

I'll get back to you on this on 10th.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Allow me some time, And I will repeat the same with the source.

Please don't even bother. Really. The reason is that I know families related to Feroze Gandhi's (or Feroze Ghandy's), and there is only some poisonous trash going around on sectarian web-sites of the usual type about his originally having been a Muslim.

Spare yourself the trouble.

Because you didn't respond to my earlier post and I was expecting that, because I disagree with you, Pls read that.

I have.

It's not very good. I don't really think it deserves much time.

 

[zebra7]

Please don't even bother. Really. The reason is that I know families related to Feroze Gandhi's (or Feroze Ghandy's), and there is only some poisonous trash going around on sectarian web-sites of the usual type about his originally having been a Muslim.

Spare yourself the trouble.

Ok but the part of it, specially the kashmiri part, because whatever I posted, I never read anywhere, just heard from the mouth of people, my parents, and observed myself.

 

[Spectre]

Ok but the part of it, specially the kashmiri part, because whatever I posted, I never read anywhere, just heard from the mouth of people, my parents, and observed myself.

Anecdotal evidences and hearsay are like wine - after a time they turn into vinegar if not kept in isolation. Not saying you are wrong but your theory is something no academic would put his
money on.

P.S. I see too many posters putting out stuff these days on the lines of my grand-mother told me - everything for the last hundred years or so has been meticulously recorded and maintained. Shouldn't be too hard to find an academic source - What say - let us desist from this practice unless we are recounting mythological stories.

Regards

 

[zebra7]

Anecdotal evidences and hearsay are like wine - after a time they turn into vinegar if not kept in isolation. Not saying you are wrong but your theory is something no academic would put his
money on.

P.S. I see come by too many posters putting out stuff these days on the lines of my grand-mother told me - everything for the last hundred years or so has been meticulously recorded and maintained. Shouldn't be too hard to find an academic source - What say - let us desist from this practice unless we are recounting mythological stories.

Regards

Sorry for the late response, I am on text browser.

Than its better you should put your money on the one that is published or posted somewhere. I spend my half of life in kashmir, have seen how a uneducated Maali worked for 1 week clearing his backyard, because he got the letter in his hand, which was written by his son in hindi , so that he could read and tell what's written there.
Nobody writes such story. I am off now from here.

good bye.