Is Modi affecting Foreign policy of India ?

[Arsalan]

@BlackOpsIndia
Sir seriously, i assure you that was exactly i was thinking after the first couple of posts. We just recently lost a members in @Joe Shearer who left the forum because of some differences with members here on the forum. I bag loss as far as i am concerned as he was one guy it was always GREAT to argue with. He can convince you on different matters and it would never be a problem because you know that he can be convinced as well. What is right is right, no matter the flag of members it is coming from. Going through the initial few posts i was thinking may be we have found an other Joe however that do not seem to be the case anymore.

The way you have tried to drag all sorts of topics and issues in your posts i am not so confident anymore. From Afghan Taliban to Kashmir problems to Hafiz Saeed to general Pakistani people to what not. It is quite evident that you are just trying to beat about the bush on this one sir. I mean no disrespect but i wont hold back from sharing what i can see and observe.

While admiration is mutual i wont ask you to admire someone who is harming your country, all i expect is you are not full of praise for someone who you think is harming ours or that you understand the difference between someone harming your country and someone asking for his basic human rights!! Morally, they are never the same. Any sensible person can and will look into the root cause of things happening rather than making judgements.

Plus dear please note that i wont be the one who will say that whatever is happening wrong is because of US or anyone! I am always open to admit that mistakes have been made. We have had our share of screw ups, however if anyone thinks that it was us alone in all that mess, well, they are seriously wrong and need to acquire some knowledge of the things that happened in this region in the last few decades. So for the record, YES we have had our share of screw ups but we are by no means the only ones, not the front runners, NOT EVER CLOSE.

It is quite sad that killings in Kashmir do not concern you even though you claim that to be your integral part! It do concern me however. Just like the operation Zarb-e-Azab makes me touchy and emotional. yes it does!! It is MY PEOPLE fighting for MY PROTECTION against the terrorists. However i do not think you will understand that as you have already said what is happening in Kashmir do not effects or not even concerns you. These things are to be felt, not taught sir.

And no, WE (and not I ) are never hurt to core when you mention Modi. It is a delusions, the chest thumping that you witness that makes you feel that way janab. Frankly, and this will irk some of my Pakistani friends, it is just like mentioned of CEPC on our side. Also as i tried to explain this in the past as well, this is no election campaign where no publicity is bad publicity. The way your government screwed up big time in Kashmir, brought that subject back in lime light, the one you were quite successfully brushing under the carpet with EXCELLENT diplomacy for last few years is not something that will HURT any Pakistani at all. The even better part was when the issue of Kashmir was tried to be covered in talks and chants about Baluchistan. Seriously, i praise what good the Indian gov. have done for INDIA (i do not say INDIANS) however i still have no idea how could they try something so stupid. You are comparing an issue on which two nuclear armed nations have fought wars three times with some local unrest and problem created by a handful of tribal leaders who have quite evident intentions and issues. It was quite hilarious if you ask me. It undone all that good work of past few years. Again i wont be stupid and blind to say that it will now remain in our favor for ever. Being a HUGE market and an economic power India is likely to regain that momentum but that is for then now, the initiative was lost, the speed at which Pakistan was being isolated is hindered. The more you try to cover that up (by you i mean gov. the more harm it is doing) Perhaps this is the reason that after FINALLY understanding this things have started to cool off gradually. It is worth to mention that all this time, KASHMIR KEPT BURNING. I am not mentioning this for you as you have said that this do not concern you so anyway.

Lolz, talking about how the worlds best agency was not able to locate Mansoor? Perhaps the same way the worlds best super power was not able to prevent Mumbai attacks from happening. Below the belt? Sorry sir but you and I both no how these things work. Have you ever studied the border situation and condition that Pakistan and Afghanistan share? Now if as per there claims we are hiding Afghan Taliban and they proliferate through the porous border to carry out attacks inside Afghanistan, do you think there is a non return valve on the border that wont allow the Afghan Talibans or TTP to proliferate into Pakistan and carry out attacks here? The best way to this is to monitor the border as best as possible and a fence is a good mean to do so but then again the same people who claim that it is Pakistan who nourishes terrorists on its soil and send them to Afghanistan wont agree with Pakistan's proposal to increase the monitoring of the border and build a fence. The reasons are not something i need to explain.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Disclaimer: Dont mistake me as a stranger to Pakistan, if you can find troll material to score some time pass points I can offer you better and not from some unknown troll but from your govt. representatives.

Our policy? as i said blame game will continue, it was you who started this game not us.

We started it? how? '71? you really think that propaganda by Shaid Massod and Shaid Lateef claiming anything everything without facts, pure chauvinism will somehow hide the butchering of Bengali people? If you want to score some brownie point by blaming India thats a different story but that wont change what happened.

India took advantage of '71, what your ignorant rulers started India took advantage of it. What else did you expected from a country you try to invade twice? I am not absolving India but they definitely didnt started it you too know that and if you dont you need to find real people in Pakistan who actually know things not just jingoist jihadi mindset people, unfortunately in India we lack such good people and most my learning is from Pakistani source based, I dont think this is a thread of that debate, I will concede we started it if thats what settle this.

It's people like Modi i don't understand, why so hell-bent on destroying Pakistan?

I have followed Modi for a long time, long enough that I can tell you Pakistan comes last in his priorities. In his 200 rallies before the election he mentioned Pakistan once, I watched all of them, he spoke about Pakistan in his Delhi rally and not even about Pakistan about Nawaz Shairf who somehow insulted Dr Manmohan Singh, apart from that not even once as far as I know.

Even after he made govt. many months later he did not speak once about Pakistan even when he was in Kashmir rally inaugurating rail link/power plant and ceasefire violation was at peak. My memory is good and I barely miss many things.

One thing about Modi is he can never be Pakistan's friends, not even in dreams and neither can be any other Prime Minister of India but he will certainly wont be Pakistan's enemy if Pakistan take into consideration of our concerns which are mutual I guess and cant be addressed unfortunately with so much baggage, may be a big war and big losses on both side will open those damn close eyes permanently and can overshadow all historic baggage.

Modi is from low caste as most Pakistani people make fun off but he got all the qualities of a high-class baniya, he will never start a war with Pakistan as long as its manageable but you know pressure of 1.25 Billion people is high enough to overcome even the likes of Modi.

i don't blame India as a nation and never will.

I think you will be disappointed with this line, 99.99% of Indians are hurt after 26/11, everytime that name, that day come it makes them hurt, before that there was huge percentage, around 20-30% people who want friendly relations with Pakistan but I am afraid you will find 1 in million with that attitude after 26/11. I am myself is very soft on Pakistan but 26/11 completely changed my life too even when I lost nobody and it happened 1000 miles away from me.

Edit: this is what i am talking about, brilliant mentality.
pk/threads/digital-india-shares-poem-promoting-killing-of-kashmiris-by-army.448645/

What is this? some desperate troll attempt? Mate you are blaming the snake for being poisonous and taking high ground as your land is spared from them!

I can find you much big Pakistani haters right here, right on this forum instead of some fake facebook account or trolls. Even your counter-terrorism expert cant talk without insulting "my god" or "gods" and will squeal in pain if I return the favour. I hope you get some sanity, I would prefer spending my time reading good people and good things instead of getting amazed by some fools and their mentality. Should I send the link of songs praising mujahid for Jihad in Afghanistan? I expected better than this.

 

[Surya 1]

Modi is elected to do that so he must keep influancing the foreign polocy. He is big daddy of diplomacy and foreign policy.

 

[WAJsal]

Should I send the link of songs praising mujahid for Jihad in Afghanistan? I expected better than this.

Dude, why are getting so emotional for? It's just a forum.

Shahid Massod and Shahid Lateef? you forgot Zahid Hamid, reference was '71 and you take pride in it. You will take pride if your proxies manage to break Pakistan now, saw make a Baluchistan and Pashtunistan country, and not to forget making something out of Sindhudash and Karachi as a new country too. The only reason why you don't take pride in your state taking advantage of our weak policies is because you have some humanity left in you, you are ashamed of the results your policies have created. Take APS for example.
And the best part is it's India's who are complaining , i expected better.

I think you will be disappointed with this line, 99.99% of Indians are hurt after 26/11, everytime that name, that day come it makes them hurt, before that there was huge percentage, around 20-30% people who want friendly relations with Pakistan but I am afraid you will find 1 in million with that attitude after 26/11. I am myself is very soft on Pakistan but 26/11 completely changed my life too even when I lost nobody and it happened 1000 miles away from me.

One such event, we have seen 100 such events and you think we are not humans, we will not react in the same manner as you seem to imply that you are. 1971 was one of these events, think of us like humans too with emotions.

What is this? some desperate troll attempt? Mate you are blaming the snake for being poisonous and taking high ground as your land is spared from them!

I am just elaborating my off-topic point. Indians(not generalizing) wouldn't mind if all Kashmiris are killed, just saying this mentality will not produce anything good. Expect for killing Muslim helpers like Gandhi and hating Pakistan(Muslims).

 

[Spectre]

Indians wouldn't mind if all Kashmiris are killed,

'

How did you come to this conclusion? Some comments on social media and PDF? I find hundreds of open comments on PDF itself by Pakistani posters wishing death and destruction to all of India. Even your ministers at the drop of hat talk about nuking India.

Do I take it seriously? No!

 

[WAJsal]

Do I take it seriously? No!

You shouldn't either, it's not even a percent of people. It's actually more of a threat.

Though deep down @Spectre , i know you get my point. And it's not a small percentage of people in India who would want that-this you know.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

that you understand the difference between someone harming your country and someone asking for his basic human rights!!

Ahh! Human Rights, the favorite topic of every Pakistani poster, I am pretty sure you are talking about Kashmir now and seriously hope you will come out of this vague Human Rights blabbering and provide me some hard facts and that too without bias if you want a rational discussion. Dont just say anything, tell me what Human Rights are they deprived off? and who is Pakistan to talk about it?

Are they better fed than those hundreds of children of thar dying due to hunger? I never see any Pakistani ask about rights of Pakistanis, Hypocrisy?. Are they dying of hepatitis due to contaminated water like in Pakistan? or do they lack some healthcare facilities like your Lahore govt. hospital which doesnt even have a MRI machine (Pak journo claim not mine). Are they disconnected from India? infact they are living on tourists from India.

Please provide me some specifics not just HR HR and HR. I will be more than happy to accept or provide some more info which you decently lack along with photos and videos if you want. I am planning a trip soon to Kashmir will ask whatever you want directly to them and upload here. Pleae be specific, not vague, SPECIFIC, I dont want acronyms and definitions, the facts.

YES we have had our share of screw ups but we are by no means the only ones, not the front runners, NOT EVER CLOSE.

Strange na! Your men, your trainers and yet you are not the front runners! Did US President threatned you to bomb to stone age if you dont agree to defeat soviets? From your line it seems more likely.

It is quite sad that killings in Kashmir do not concern you even though you claim that to be your integral part!

I was talking about killing of militants, any armed rebellion against state is worth punishing isn't it? or did Pakistan allow armed rebellions to be on killing spree.

It is MY PEOPLE fighting for MY PROTECTION against the terrorists.

My apolozies but what a pathetic twisted logic, if someone attack your soilder your soilder kills him your soilder is great and if someone attack my soilder and my soilder kills him my soilder is devil! I hereby rest all my discussion related to Kashmir, you won, they are saint and we are evil, there is no use of any such discussion which such screwed logic. You are too much into your ownself and yet you ask for rationality.

You are comparing an issue on which two nuclear armed nations have fought wars three times with some local unrest and problem created by a handful of tribal leaders who have quite evident intentions and issues

What a magnicifient delusion you have! Handful of tribal leaders? Is that why Bloochistan is under sieze? no free press movement? how many TV channel got offices there? When was the last election and how many people voted in that? are you that was not rigged? 80% voted in Indian Kashmir slapping your great Mujahid Gilani and it was/is open to international press and not just to PR campaign of miliatry tour to some particular reporter of one singal day. As I said you are tooo lost in your own delusions its hard to see the light.

how the worlds best agency was not able to locate Mansoor? Perhaps the same way the worlds best super power was not able to prevent Mumbai attacks from happening.

Wow! Unparralled! you make me shiver with fear of your ignorance or unawareness or just petty logic twisting to prove yourself right doesn't matter what it take!

I wont argue on this, this is baffaling. Everyone in whole world know where is Taliban leadership, you even airlifted them from Kunduz and yet here you are claiming ISI has no role! Even the man who airlifted them, from your NSA to former Generals tell the full story but the audacity with which you can deny is beyond my imagination.

I dint say anything about border, its your border its your responsibility to guard it, infact I was amazed when I first came to know the border was open. What do India has to do with that, even if you guard it TTP will still infiltrate, if our best defence cant stop intrusion at LOC am sure Pakistan can never stop it, they neither have resources nor the manpower to do that, when they do the defence budget will be huge enough and India will be happy with that too.

 

[Spectre]

You shouldn't either, it's not even a percent of people.

Though deep down @Spectre , i know you get my point. And it's not a small percentage of people in India who would want that-this you know.

Let me clear this out for you

I am far far right when it comes to Kashmir. At some point or other I have advocated for demographic change in Kashmir and treating violent protesters akin to terrorists.

But do I want to kill off all Kashmiris? What a cockamamie thought. All the sane Indians want to integrate them in mainstream India by hook or crook. Had we wanted to do away with them - Muslim population in Kashmir would have gone from majority to minority as what happened with Lahore where Hindus and Sikhs had substantial population. We could have driven them off to Pakistan but no we didn't. Infact populations of Muslims has only been in Rise in India.

That would give you an idea of secular nature of India, Genocidal countries don't allow minorities to out number majority as we have been doing in Assam.

 

[WAJsal]

At some point or other I have advocated for demographic change in Kashmir and treating violent protesters akin to terrorists.

And then you found sanity.

But do I want to kill off all Kashmiris? What a cockamamie thought.

Not you. You get the point.

Had we wanted to do away with them

It's not as easy as it sounds, there are sane people in India too. Do you think they'd allow it. Do you not counter all such posters on PDF? I have seen you doing it a number of times.

what happened with Lahore where Hindus and Sikhs

Not a good comparison, though i won't bother.

 

[Spectre]

And then you found sanity.

Not you. You get the point.

It's not as easy as it sounds, there are sane people in India too. Do you think they'd allow it. Do you not counter all such posters on PDF? I have seen you doing it a number of times.

Not a good comparison, though i won't bother.

Well in the end it comes down to where we stand - I hold Kashmir with all it's people as an integral part of India and you don't.

There is no middle ground on this hence it is unlikely we will agree on something Kashmir related.

As for your 2nd point, sanity is always outnumbered if the majority is against it. All the sane people in Pakistan could not stop the tortures and genocide in Bangladesh, no one was punished in Pakistan and infact the man responsible for it was AWARDED WITH A PROMOTION. And all this happened when people of Pakistan and Bangladesh shared the same religion.

In India majority of people are sane thereby despite being a multi ethnic, multi lingual, muti religious country we persevere and will continue to do so.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

you forgot Zahid Hamid, reference was '71 and you take pride in it.

I for one use to think 71 was bad idea, it was a masterpiece militarily but in long run it created a permanent enemy in our neighborhood which India should have avoided. But when I think back, and see we were attacked twice before that without any reason just cuz some dictator got new tanks or want to go for Gazva e Hind, I kind of feel its somewhat justified. Many times weaker nations overestimate their capabilities due to weaker posture of bigger nations. It was necessary to send a message, a lesson, not that I like much, but necessary evil.

you are ashamed of the results your policies have created. Take APS for example.

I am pretty sure APS happened in 2014, and Mumbai happened in 2008 isn't it? or is it other way around?

So you took a 6 year lead in being ashamed, isn't it?

1971 was one of these events, think of us like humans too with emotions.

For a moment I thought the green part is from some of my Bangladeshi friend posted this line! and the red part just told me what lengths people can go for emotions.

Indians(not generalizing) wouldn't mind if all Kashmiris are killed, just saying this mentality will not produce anything good. Expect for killing Muslim helpers like Gandhi and hating Pakistan(Muslims).

Why dont you take a walk around and visit your nearby Madarsha? ask them about Gazva-e-Hind or what should be done to non muslims and than come back telling me who hates whom.

 

[WAJsal]

Why dont you take a walk around and visit your nearby Madarsha? ask them about Gazva-e-Hind or what should be done to non muslims and than come back telling me who hates whom.

They wouldn't know of the term, you are too obsessed by this term and the myths surrounded by it. No one has ever taken it seriously.

am pretty sure APS happened in 2014, and Mumbai happened in 2008 isn't it? or is it other way around?

So you took a 6 year lead in being ashamed, isn't it?

Good to you to miss most of my post and quote a small part. Selective quoting is never a good idea.

For a moment I thought the green part is from some of my Bangladeshi friend posted this line! and the red part just told me what lengths people can go for emotions.

Same logic can apply in the case of Kashmir. God knows what happens to this love for humanity in Kashmir.

I hold Kashmir with all it's people as an integral part of India

And it's no point in killing your own people, right? That's where you found sanity maybe.

As for your 2nd point, sanity is always outnumbered if the majority is against it. All the sane people in Pakistan could not stop the tortures and genocide in Bangladesh, no one was punished in Pakistan and infact the man responsible for it was AWARDED WITH A PROMOTION. And all this happened when people of Pakistan and Bangladesh shared the same religion.

Weak structure, still is. Though the majority has never supported armies role in Bangladesh and with all your years on PDF you would have surely seen this opinion. I have personally criticized it many times.

 

[Spectre]

Weak structure, still is. Though the majority has never supported armies role in Bangladesh and with all your years on PDF you would have surely seen this opinion. I have personally criticized it many times.

How do you know if you are in the majority @WAJsal? You are of scholarly variety, have read about the issue alot. Do you prescribe same kind of intellectual rigor to most of Pakistanis including the illiterate ones?

Even of PDF you are among the minority from Pakistan who criticize the role of army. Most Pakistanis justify it, including some Bangladeshis

 

[WAJsal]

who criticize the role of army.

First we need to understand the role of the army from a neutral perspective. All fantasies and made up figures should never be given much attention.

@Spectre , a common Pakistani never likes to remember 1971 as we lost our brothers. Every Pakistani regrets this and no educated Pakistani will justify the role of army in '71. In fact it has even seen loads of criticism from the army itself, can be traced back to events after 1971. I will provide a source if needed. Much like Indians, they would never like to take pride in whats happening in Kashmir.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

They wouldn't know of the term, you are too obsessed by this term and the myths surrounded by it. No one has ever taken it seriously.

I am not obsessed or take that joke seriously but it sells like hot cake in Jihadi market, anyways I was just showing you the mirror, when you talk about hate you must remember the nation you are living is created just cuz of this single purpose.

The whole existence is based upon Hindus and Muslims cant live together, isn't it? and you made it true by eliminating Hindus entirely from Pakistan and the evil Hindustani Hindus let minority flourish so much that we got more Muslims than you have and yet we all are progressing well.

So next time you talk about mentality you search your soul within. There is not a shred of doubt extremists are there in India too and they did some nasty things, both Hindu extremists and Muslims extremists but as my India is progressing and we get better policing they are limited to just facebook or twitter trolling unlike holding rallies in streets of Lahore to kill others.

RSS, VHP whomsoever, howsoever strong cant challenge the writ of state and if they do they get a fair beating and punishment later on. Gone are those days when we had lesser police and even normal public is smart now.

Good to you to miss most of my post and quote a small part. Selective quoting is never a good idea.

I read all, quoted small part so as not to make already marathon posts more lengthy. Didnt mean to put you out of context.