Is Kashmir a part of India ?

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Some Kashmiris, perhaps many, might prefer to be neither part of Pakistan nor part of India. None of us can know for sure but instead offer "gut opinions" which in some cases are religiously driven.

Just a few thoughts from a former US official who lived and worked in then West Pakistan 1963-65 and since saw the economy of Pakistan both as a US International Banker and as a reserve officer at the joint chiefs of staff-staff level
.

With respect for your experience and position, sir , let me add that the situation in kashmir being described as a struggle for independance , freedom , liberation etc is an absolute red herring if there ever was one.

The truth is islamists and extremists are trying to create another Afghanistan in Kashmir. A land in which Mullahs hold sway , A harsh extremist version of islam is practised. Hindus , sikhs and other religious groups are terrorized and forced to leave their ancestral land and property.
The ideologue of these groups is contrary to the very tradition of tolerance that is practiced today in India and For political and strategic purposes our dear neighbour is playing all its cards to achieve this end. Through a variety of methods like infiltrating extremists , the Genocide of Kashmiri hindus , financing riots , creating seditionists and seperatists through money and taking full advantage of the system , the rule of law and accountability.

They use their proxies in the Hurriyat to instigate a riot , hundreds of misled and misguided youth under the impression they are fighting for freedom/ islamic rule ....take to the streets and lose their lives. The Government of India with its free media and accountability , initiates a probe in which the paramilitary forces / state law enforcement is " reprimanded" for trying their best to control the situation under extreme adverse circumstances. The issue is highly publicized internationally with a spotlight on The number of dead bodies and the Indian police, with the main actors in this drama - the ISI / Pakistani armed forces conveniently forgotten.

Result : A load of moral ground gained for Pakistan with Indian forces being perceived as Harsh and Inhuman.

What we are trying to avoid are these kind of vested interests being successful and No matter how many questions on our conduct and what kind of pressure we shall never succumb , to these nefarious designs.

 

[absmonarch]

Today we call 'bigot' but during Islamic rule it was acceptable. Non-muslims called inferior "dhimmi" and "Kaffir". Treat worse than slaves. Some convert to gain better status, others run away.

IF very powerful hindu ruler, then treatment okay sometimes. Make military alliance. But rare situation.

 

[KS]

Today we call 'bigot' but during Islamic rule it was acceptable. Non-muslims called inferior "dhimmi" and "Kaffir". Treat worse than slaves. Some convert to gain better status, others run away.

IF very powerful hindu ruler, then treatment okay sometimes. Make military alliance. But rare situation.

Doesn't change the fact they were religious bigots. Does it ?

 

[absmonarch]

They were bigot. But the world 'bigot' not exist in vocabulary. :loL:

They encouraged to treat inferior non-muslim badly. Macho behaviour. Even write books and poems about it. You should read them sometime.

Some write long novel describing torture and killing of hindu in great detail. All original work available to read.

 

[Ras]

This is exactly why a plebiscite is needed, to know what the Kashmirs want, give them the promised "right to self determination".I know, many of my Indians friends would argue here that the a plebiscite is not possible in the current geographic realities,( some of Kashmir is under China's control)but nothing could be further from the truth.If the Berlin Wall could be brought down, if the US and Japan can build cordial relations after the WWII, then a solution to Kashmir could also be reached.No matter how long it takes,10 or 100 years but we can make a start by accepting that Kashmir is a dispute, and not anyone's integral part, as recognized by the UN.India, by refusing to accept Kashmir as a disputed territory, puts a stop to any kind of negotiations.Its not just about the land, its about the millions of Kashmirs, who have been suffering for generations now.All we have to do is agree that Kashmir is a dispute and the people of Kashmir should be given a chance to carve their own future, as promised to them under the UN charter.It does not matter how long it would take to reach upon a verdict, which would be acceptable to all the three parties, but at least we would be moving in the right direction.

We, Pakistanis,the majority of us,would not have a problem if the Kashmirs want to be independent or join India.

India will never ever give up Kashmir unless forced to by military strength or economic duress.

Wait another 20 years and see how important control of the rivers are.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

India will never ever give up Kashmir unless forced to by military strength or economic duress.

Wait another 20 years and see how important control of the rivers are.

Either of the two has as much chance of happening as U.S giving up Alaska or China- Tibet for that matter, Imho I believe even less.

 

[American Eagle]

The harder truth is that in Pakistan and Kashmir the subject is those who want to practice free enterprise, build businesses which create jobs for many vs. those self serving radicals who want to live in the stone age in the guise of a religion they are in fact heretics to.

If freedom in it's many forms is a red herring then India would not be the success it is today.

I have long advocated the Andorran Model, whereby the LOC is respected not haggled over and a single capital is allowed for both parts of Kashmir to use for a Kashmiri Parliament to meet and rule from in the sense of "local rule" as is the case of any routine state in either India or Paksitan today.

It took Andorra around 700 years to subdue the violence between Protestants and Catholics. BUT it was a goal which was eventually achieved.

As the Indian subcontinent in my book respresents the cradle of our civilization it would be nice, but unlikely for folks to learn to live, respect differences, and do what most other nations do, have a mixed population that retains honorable parochial traditions in a peaceful, colorful and shared sense instead of the senseless bloodshed disguised as religion when it is self serving heresay.

I am still fairly current via both Pakitani and Indian friends here in our area who are a growing part of our newer US population, opening new mosques, youth centers, and charity works, as well as our Hindu brothers opening new temples around here, too.

You are point blank right about terrorists marauding against other faiths, which includes the tiny number of Christians in the Kashmir area now treated as part of Paksitan.

Christmas Eve it is now here in the US. Peace and goodwill toward men would be a good motto...understanding we are all the children of Abraham and that what our Savior Jesus Christ offered is what the whole world today most needs, HOPE.

Merry Christmas.

With respect for your experience and position, sir , let me add that the situation in kashmir being described as a struggle for independance , freedom , liberation etc is an absolute red herring if there ever was one.

The truth is islamists and extremists are trying to create another Afghanistan in Kashmir. A land in which Mullahs hold sway , A harsh extremist version of islam is practised. Hindus , sikhs and other religious groups are terrorized and forced to leave their ancestral land and property.
The ideologue of these groups is contrary to the very tradition of tolerance that is practiced today in India and For political and strategic purposes our dear neighbour is playing all its cards to achieve this end. Through a variety of methods like infiltrating extremists , the Genocide of Kashmiri hindus , financing riots , creating seditionists and seperatists through money and taking full advantage of the system , the rule of law and accountability.

They use their proxies in the Hurriyat to instigate a riot , hundreds of misled and misguided youth under the impression they are fighting for freedom/ islamic rule ....take to the streets and lose their lives. The Government of India with its free media and accountability , initiates a probe in which the paramilitary forces / state law enforcement is " reprimanded" for trying their best to control the situation under extreme adverse circumstances. The issue is highly publicized internationally with a spotlight on The number of dead bodies and the Indian police, with the main actors in this drama - the ISI / Pakistani armed forces conveniently forgotten.

Result : A load of moral ground gained for Pakistan with Indian forces being perceived as Harsh and Inhuman.

What we are trying to avoid are these kind of vested interests being successful and No matter how many questions on our conduct and what kind of pressure we shall never succumb , to these nefarious designs.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I am still fairly current via both Pakitani and Indian friends here in our area who are a growing part of our newer US population, opening new mosques, youth centers, and charity works, as well as our Hindu brothers opening new temples around here, too.

People like you are the reason why I am proud of being an American.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

The harder truth is that in Pakistan and Kashmir the subject is those who want to practice free enterprise, build businesses which create jobs for many vs. those self serving radicals who want to live in the stone age in the guise of a religion they are in fact heretics to.

If freedom in it's many forms is a red herring then India would not be the success it is today.

I have long advocated the Andorran Model, whereby the LOC is respected not haggled over and a single capital is allowed for both parts of Kashmir to use for a Kashmiri Parliament to meet and rule from in the sense of "local rule" as is the case of any routine state in either India or Paksitan today.

It took Andorra around 700 years to subdue the violence between Protestants and Catholics. BUT it was a goal which was eventually achieved.

As the Indian subcontinent in my book respresents the cradle of our civilization it would be nice, but unlikely for folks to learn to live, respect differences, and do what most other nations do, have a mixed population that retains honorable parochial traditions in a peaceful, colorful and shared sense instead of the senseless bloodshed disguised as religion when it is self serving heresay.

I am still fairly current via both Pakitani and Indian friends here in our area who are a growing part of our newer US population, opening new mosques, youth centers, and charity works, as well as our Hindu brothers opening new temples around here, too.

You are point blank right about terrorists marauding against other faiths, which includes the tiny number of Christians in the Kashmir area now treated as part of Paksitan.

Christmas Eve it is now here in the US. Peace and goodwill toward men would be a good motto...understanding we are all the children of Abraham and that what our Savior Jesus Christ offered is what the whole world today most needs, HOPE.

Merry Christmas.

Thanks for your views and merry Christmas to you too ....

 

[MickyMouse]

I have read indian textbooks, they are full of hatred and bigotry against pakistanis and muslim. We dont teach our children that there was a huge country called bharat which was divided by hindu convert Jinnah beacause there wasn't any, we were a colony of British not a colony of Bharat we gained independence from Britain not from Bharat so there was no partition

Either name of the textbook or your view is baseless and filled with lies.
Its impossible that any Pakistani does not know about the partition. There are still plenty of people on both sides who were alive during those days.

And yes there was a huge country called "Bharat" and some of your current territories were a part of that.
Akbar was an emperor of India and his empire included many areas of what is Pakistan today
Maratha empire was till the eastern banks of Sutlej, which is also in Pakistan today
The British colony was always known as India, which is what they have called Bharat since before Columbus.
There was no Pakistan before 1947.
All are Facts
So if your schools are not teaching you this, then the historical ignorance is not on our side of the border

 

[American Eagle]

I think everyone would do better to recognize that the "rivers" and related hydro power and agricultural irrigation uses and needs are covered under international treaties and accords.

What happens since these guiding documents are stray opinions and political opportunists trying to bend agreements or outright break them to the benefit of only one side or the other.

That is why you have mutual and international agreements to have a non-selfish sole user or controller.

Water boundaries and uses are eternal disputes worldwide, to wit we here in Alabama are involved in a long running river and waters use dispute with the states of Georgia and Florida. Same principles apply, but without the violence and radical threats. Our US domestic dispute here in the SE USA is being handled in our courts, as such disputes should be handled.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I think all these problems like the question raised by the fellow Pakistanis will be resolved when we take back what is ours. This problem will have a solution if and only if India captures ***.

 

[IND151]

yes Kashmir is part of India.