Is It Too Late To Build A 'Haseen' Relationship Between India And Pakistan

[Bratva]

Never say never again. A plenty from pre-partition generation still lives on different parts of the world, scattered, broken heart. It just needs an honest initiative from military and civil leadership from both the countries to establish few melting zones in J & K and Punjab border where people can move freely, interacting with each other all over the year. At least this is one cheaply affordable way to keep our future generation safe from Nuclear holocaust.

Its never late to begin a new start.

But before the start the INTENTION needs to be there. The INTENTION for good relations is yet to come to Pakistan side, and I don't know if that INTENTION will come now, today or ever tomorrow or maybe never. This question can only be answered by Pakistan.

You have been spreading terror in pakistan since 2004-5. Unless revenge is served in cold dish, there is no normalization or haseen relationship

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training

The training includes counter-terrorism operations, military field-craft, signals, intelligence, counter-IED, information technology

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training - The Times of India\

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad?

Technical Support Division (TSD), the secretive military intelligence unit set up by former Army chief General V K Singh which is accused of trying to overthrow the Omar Abdullahgovernment, has claimed to have carried out at least eight successful covert operations in a foreign country.

But the claims are so sensitive and sensational that it would be a key reason why the government will not hand over the inquiry report into the functioning of TSD to an external investigation agency.

According to sources, among the most sensational claims in the report is that the TSD carried out eight specific covert operations in a foreign country. It has claimed to have spent a few crores on those operations

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad? - The Times of India

MI operatives moved into Tajikistan and later Afghanistan in support of the Ahmad Shah Massoud-led Northern Alliance that overthrew the Taliban in 2001.Besides furthering national strategic goals, MI officials say these 'third country operations' allowed the agency to peep into countries of their immediate interest.

How Indian Army's Military Intelligence Directorate works : Special Report - India Today

Ravi Datt Mehta (1955 – 7 July 2008) was a brigadier in the Indian army. He died in the suicide bombingof the Indian Embassy in Kabul while serving as India's Defence Attaché to Afghanistanon 7 July 2008. Brig. Mehta had earlier also served as the head of the Indian Army's Intelligence Corps in the state of Jammu and Kashmir


US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander (NO.2 of TTP ) from Afghan intel
By BILL ROGGIO October 11, 2013

US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander from Afghan intel | The Long War Journal


Monday, January 09, 2006

New Delhi fuelling Balochistan violence, says Musharraf

* President ‘annoyed’ and ‘disappointed’ by Indian involvement

NEW DELHI: President Pervez Musharraf accused India on Sunday of arming and financing militants in Balochistan, charges that could push back a peace process between the two countries.

When asked whether India was backing armed Baloch militants, Musharraf told the CNN-IBNchannel in an interview aired on Sunday: “There are lot of indications, yes indeed.” There is a “lot of financial support, support in kind being given to those who are anti-government, anti-me and to those feudal people who are anti-national”, the president said.

The Pakistan Army launched a crackdown against militants in Balochistan after a December 14 rocket attack while Musharraf was visiting the region. Baloch nationalists say that 200 people have since been killed, but the government has not commented on casualties.

Musharraf said that he was “annoyed” and “disappointed” by Indian government statements and alleged actions in Balochistan. “It’s a direct interference in our internal affairs,” he told CNN-IBN.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\01\09\story_9-1-2006_pg1_1

Musharraf expressed hope that the exchange over Balochistan would not hurt the peace process between Pakistan and India. “It should not be a setback to the process of dialogue of resolution (of disputes),” he said.

A spat erupted this month after India expressed concerns about the situation in Balochistan. New Delhi had said last month that it noted with “concern” reports of the use of gunships and jet fighters in Balochistan, and hoped that Islamabad would show “restraint” in the matter.

Pakistan had responded by accusing India of “an unacceptable proclivity to interfere in the internal affairs of its neighbours”. “Such tendency is contrary to efforts aimed at building an environment of trust, peace and stability in South Asia,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam had said.

Musharraf had termed India’s comments “intriguing”, adding: “We know who is financing and supplying weapons.”

India on Saturday rejected earlier Pakistani charges of involvement in Balochistan. “As far as any allegations about India’s interference in Balochistan are concerned, I would like to categorically reject these allegations as utterly baseless and false,” Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said.

Opposition parties in Balochistan have accused the government of using helicopter gunships and warplanes to rocket and bomb civilians in Kohlu and Dera Bugti.

On Friday, Federal Information Minister and the president’s chief spokesman Sheikh Rashid had said that good relations with neighbours have kept Pakistan from making public evidence of the involvement of foreign countries in the Balochistan insurgency.

“We have evidence that foreign countries are involved,” he told a news conference in Peshawar. “But we don’t want to spoil the good relations we have with our neighbours.” reuters

 

[SarthakGanguly]

And another Fawad Khan-starring show ends. Like many other women in the subcontinent, I too love Fawad Khan, my dreams and reveries comprise of only him. How I waited for Waqt Ne Kiya Kya Haseen Sitam to begin, how I longed for the clock to strike 8 at night and how I watched the show, with bated breath, in absolute awe, never flickering eyelashes. But it was not only his irresistible good looks that had me hooked, this show was different, in several ways.

I have studied the times of the Partition repeatedly, whether it be in history or anthropology. This show, however, added visuals to the brutal truth of the Partition. Reading ethnographic studies of that time was difficult enough, but watching them on screen concretised the fearful visual imagery scarring my mind. The dream that people had of undivided India as they struggled against the oppressive British Raj, the ugly face of communalism, the vested interests of people driving the communal agenda, the tactics used by them to draw the attention of the general populace to the 'fact' that Hindus and Muslims comprise two several nationalities, the horror and wrath of the Partition and the dangerous trail of misery and hatred it left behind--I am now even more familiar with. I can only consider myself fortunate to be born post Partition. However, this hatred still chars the fragile relationship between the two countries born due to this false and devious propaganda. Will India and Pakistan ever enjoy a haseen relationship or will it be fraught by zulm? While haseen means beautiful, sitam implies torture. Usage of the two words together, recognises an unlikely possibility. Is a normal relationship between India and Pakistan an unlikely possibility too?

This brings me back to the dream that the people subjugated by the colonial imperialists must have dreamt of. Unfortunately, their voices are lost to the 'leaders' of the freedom struggle, thus compelling generations to believe that an independent India and Pakistan would not have translated to reality, had there been no leaders to wage the war against the British. Sadly, we would never come to know the names of the people involved in mass movements, the countless individuals who sacrificed everything in the name of freedom so that the Indians and Pakistanis will be emancipated and live peacefully, ever after. The terrors of Partition, the subsequent wars and hostilities between the two nations, deride this dream.

Like several 'Banos' and 'Hassans', numerous others must have been attracted to the communal propaganda, only to realise that it was a farce. Numerous people across the border must have dreamt like Bano that their nation would be the best nation in the world. However, all of us find ourselves caught in the same dilemma and facing the same problems against the powerful. The subaltern is always oppressed by the hegemonic State and society. Bano had no inkling of the fact that a Sabeen Mahmud will be born to fight and then tragically be murdered. The Indians remained oblivious of the fact that fake encounters will occur, voices against those in power will be silenced, the poor will be crushed to make way for the rich. No one knew that hegemonic, unequal power relations will remain constant.

Partition created blurred lines, but people living on either side of those blurred lines must not forget that they have more similarities than differences. The callous, cold indifference tolerated by the subaltern in both the nations is the same. These are not the times to be misled by communal and hate propagandas. This is the time to build ahaseen relationship, to fill in the emptiness of the dream, to alter the power structures, to recognise the similarity and blur the distances, and most importantly, to recognise the fact that we are the same people. We could have been together, we could have avoided the Partition had our ancestors not acted on the instructions of those who desired fissions in a country and we could have built a beautiful haseen mulk, having multiple plural identities, recognising different perspectives. If only we had listened to our voices; the voice of the subaltern rather than voices of our 'leaders'. Let's listen to the voices within us this time and withstand any endeavour to crush the subaltern's voice, demolish existing power structures, build an egalitarian State and society and create sulah between ourselves.
Is It Too Late To Build A 'Haseen' Relationship Between India And Pakistan | Devyani Tewari

It is not too late. It is, was, and will be impossible. Matter and anti matter can't co exist. Plus, there is a lot more of matter than anti matter anyway.

 

[HowkEye]

I agree and the word you used stands for seculars in Pakistan because they are more loyal to India than India themselves.


Both would be done leadership of TTP and MQM and BLA eliminated and than war will be taken in India.

stabilize your own home first. stop being a keyboard fighter.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@syedali73 @Zarvan when i first time got this from official channel that India is behind all this mess i was having...lolzzzzzzzz.......because not only we but whole world knows that,who will give shit about it UN or US or China man do something real which creates panic and fear in your foes.Those who defeated Soviets in ISI have long gone or may be dead, for how much time we will consider this victory which has turned into a defeat today as achievement?It's time to do something without giving a shit about what world says or else die a slow death never forget "Nukes can't give you life, can't they work instead of our brains they are gun not man behind gun we are worshiping them as man behind gun"

 

[Srinivas]

Simple answer:
Yes,it's too late.We have a lot of record to settle with Bhartis.

Then .... Why are you waiting Key board fighter?

It feels good to spew your stupidity on internet forums .... though !

 

[Zarvan]

@syedali73 @Zarvan when i first time got this from official channel that India is behind all this mess i was having...lolzzzzzzzz.......because not only we but whole world knows that,who will give shit about it UN or US or China man do something real which creates panic and fear in your foes.Those who defeated Soviets in ISI have long gone or may be dead, for how much time we will consider this victory which has turned into a defeat today as achievement?It's time to do something without giving a shit about what world says or else die a slow death never forget "Nukes can't give you life, can't they work instead of our brains they are gun not man behind gun we are worshiping them as man behind gun"

ISI is still the same Mr they are dam good they were not doing few things because of political reasons now its pay back time and you soon you would see lot of Diwali in every city of India.

 

[scorpionx]

You have been spreading terror in pakistan since 2004-5. Unless revenge is served in cold dish, there is no normalization or haseen relationship

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training

The training includes counter-terrorism operations, military field-craft, signals, intelligence, counter-IED, information technology

US exit: India steps up Afghan army training - The Times of India\

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad?

Technical Support Division (TSD), the secretive military intelligence unit set up by former Army chief General V K Singh which is accused of trying to overthrow the Omar Abdullahgovernment, has claimed to have carried out at least eight successful covert operations in a foreign country.

But the claims are so sensitive and sensational that it would be a key reason why the government will not hand over the inquiry report into the functioning of TSD to an external investigation agency.

According to sources, among the most sensational claims in the report is that the TSD carried out eight specific covert operations in a foreign country. It has claimed to have spent a few crores on those operations

Secret military intelligence unit ran 8 covert operations abroad? - The Times of India

MI operatives moved into Tajikistan and later Afghanistan in support of the Ahmad Shah Massoud-led Northern Alliance that overthrew the Taliban in 2001.Besides furthering national strategic goals, MI officials say these 'third country operations' allowed the agency to peep into countries of their immediate interest.

How Indian Army's Military Intelligence Directorate works : Special Report - India Today

Ravi Datt Mehta (1955 – 7 July 2008) was a brigadier in the Indian army. He died in the suicide bombingof the Indian Embassy in Kabul while serving as India's Defence Attaché to Afghanistanon 7 July 2008. Brig. Mehta had earlier also served as the head of the Indian Army's Intelligence Corps in the state of Jammu and Kashmir


US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander (NO.2 of TTP ) from Afghan intel
By BILL ROGGIO October 11, 2013

US grabs Pakistani Taliban commander from Afghan intel | The Long War Journal


Monday, January 09, 2006

New Delhi fuelling Balochistan violence, says Musharraf

* President ‘annoyed’ and ‘disappointed’ by Indian involvement

NEW DELHI: President Pervez Musharraf accused India on Sunday of arming and financing militants in Balochistan, charges that could push back a peace process between the two countries.

When asked whether India was backing armed Baloch militants, Musharraf told the CNN-IBNchannel in an interview aired on Sunday: “There are lot of indications, yes indeed.” There is a “lot of financial support, support in kind being given to those who are anti-government, anti-me and to those feudal people who are anti-national”, the president said.

The Pakistan Army launched a crackdown against militants in Balochistan after a December 14 rocket attack while Musharraf was visiting the region. Baloch nationalists say that 200 people have since been killed, but the government has not commented on casualties.

Musharraf said that he was “annoyed” and “disappointed” by Indian government statements and alleged actions in Balochistan. “It’s a direct interference in our internal affairs,” he told CNN-IBN.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\01\09\story_9-1-2006_pg1_1

Musharraf expressed hope that the exchange over Balochistan would not hurt the peace process between Pakistan and India. “It should not be a setback to the process of dialogue of resolution (of disputes),” he said.

A spat erupted this month after India expressed concerns about the situation in Balochistan. New Delhi had said last month that it noted with “concern” reports of the use of gunships and jet fighters in Balochistan, and hoped that Islamabad would show “restraint” in the matter.

Pakistan had responded by accusing India of “an unacceptable proclivity to interfere in the internal affairs of its neighbours”. “Such tendency is contrary to efforts aimed at building an environment of trust, peace and stability in South Asia,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam had said.

Musharraf had termed India’s comments “intriguing”, adding: “We know who is financing and supplying weapons.”

India on Saturday rejected earlier Pakistani charges of involvement in Balochistan. “As far as any allegations about India’s interference in Balochistan are concerned, I would like to categorically reject these allegations as utterly baseless and false,” Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said.

Opposition parties in Balochistan have accused the government of using helicopter gunships and warplanes to rocket and bomb civilians in Kohlu and Dera Bugti.

On Friday, Federal Information Minister and the president’s chief spokesman Sheikh Rashid had said that good relations with neighbours have kept Pakistan from making public evidence of the involvement of foreign countries in the Balochistan insurgency.

“We have evidence that foreign countries are involved,” he told a news conference in Peshawar. “But we don’t want to spoil the good relations we have with our neighbours.” reuters

Yes. And then banging keyboard on head begins.

 

[Sine Nomine]

ISI is still the same Mr they are dam good they were not doing few things because of political reasons now its pay back time and you soon you would see lot of Diwali in every city of India.

What is difference between them and us then...

 

[Zarvan]

What is difference between them and us then...

We would target RAW and IB and NIA and their forces not civilians.

 

[MilSpec]

@Bratva
Lets us assume for a second Pakistani claim of Indian involvement is correct.

Pakistan's engaged India by it's death by a thousand cuts on India via kashmir, khalistan etc. Why shouldn't India pay back in Kind? What was Pakistan's threat assessment when it engaged India in asymmetric warfare, was the expectation that India would not counter?
Why complain now, even if your allegations are correct, India is just responding to Pakistan's move, and as always India's response is sharper, and harder.

i.e. if your assessment is considered correct.

As far as you military Intel links presented, yes these are Indian Army consultants promoting Indian interest w.r.t to training and logistics. Your domestic issues are not fueled by India, your internal militants are not running insas tavors and OFB marked grenades, your IED's are not built and used by Hindutwawadi imports from India. All of your helbound terrorists are either home grown or pets inculcated by remnants of the 80's holy war against the evil communists.

Another claim is that these mujaheddin these days are rented by Indian agencies operating out of Kabul. If mujaheddin were that easily rented, wonder why did the americans did not do the same, more over, if so why dont we do the same with the kashmiri mujaheddin, that would be quite simple investment for India.Wouldn't it?

The issue that stands with the narrative presented here is , India is all evil, all internal problems of pakistan, right from balochistan movement to minorities being killed, to killing of human rights activtists to shooting up journalists is all India
s involvement, No fault lies within pakistan. This white dove syndrome will be quite counter productive in the future.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Lets us assume for a second Pakistani claim of Indian involvement is correct.

Pakistan's engaged India by it's death by a thousand cuts on India via kashmir, khalistan etc. Why shouldn't India pay back in Kind? What was Pakistan's threat assessment when it engaged India in asymmetric warfare, was the expectation that India would not counter?
Why complain now, even if your allegations are correct, India is just responding to Pakistan's move, and as always India's response is sharper, and harder.

Pakistan only engaged Kashmir but only Army not civilians but what did you in 1971.

 

[Indian Patriot]

This writer is a prime example of everything that is wrong with bleeding heart pseudo-liberals.

Do not get me wrong here, I do not advocate war but I don't see reality through rose-tinted glasses either. Yes both India, Pakistan and bangladesh were a single country - just as Afghanistan too was once part of India. When some emotional writer like this lady in question talks of reconciliation and even subtly hints at spiritual re unification why do they omit former Indian territory like bangladesh? Is it because bangladesh does not have a majority north Indian culture like Pakistan has in Lahore?

I can understand the pain and nostalgia of those generation of Indians, and some Pakistanis, who were born pre-partition, had lived in a unified India and saw thei homes burnt down and families relocated. They longing for things to go back to the old ways can be understood. What I don't understand is why the modern bunch of Indians, and some Pakistanis, are so obsessed with Pakistan and vice-versa.

Pakistan in 2015 is not the same Pakistan of 1947. Pakistan and Pakistanis today in 2015 are as Indian as Afghans are Indian. Pakistan today is a separate country with their own independent identity. This shameless and useless nostalgia and romanticism of past era is hopeless. Accept the truth and move on. North India shares a common culture with Pakistan, not entire India. Pakistanis have nothing in common with southern India or north-eastern India.

Pakistan is not a lost part of India, they are a separate country and it is high time that people on both sides realise that. Yes relations can be improved and should be improved. But talks and conferences should not be guided by the sentiment "oh we used to be a single country once, let us once again go back to the sweet times of old". The time machine has not been invented and one cannot change history.

Instead both countries should show maturity and acceptance of the past. The sentiment should be rather "yes we have gone our separate ways but we can still co-exist in peace with mutual respect". Unless this level of maturity is achieved by the people in the sub-continent - aptly represented by emotionally wasted lady who wrote this tear-jerker article - the normalisation of ties cannot be achieved.

India and Pakistan need to look to a new start instead of trying to undo history and go back to old ways.

 

[MilSpec]

Pakistan only engaged Kashmir but only Army not civilians but what did you in 1971.

what did we do? How many Mukti bahini fighters blew up hotels and railway stations in islamabad?
How many of mukti bahini fighters remained active after the creation of bangladesh? What is mukti bahini doing these days?
And yes we did engage, in east pakistan completed our strategic objectives, gauged the threat perception that could emerge from it. accomplished all our objectives. And today the resltant country is in a better shape than Pakistan itself.

What did you do to India? Did you think that India will not respond to asymmetric warfare? What has your asymmetric warfare achieved in India? Which objectives has it completed?

As far as kashmir , check the acts conducted in kashmir, bombings in markets, indiscriminately shooting up streets, dragging kashmiri hindus out of their housed and killing them, blowing up trains, buses, hijacking Planes, kidnapping tourists, your government backed terrorists have engaged Indians in every sphere, not just military.

 

[OrionHunter]

I agree its time to take war in India its time to take revenge of all those killed by proxies of RAW its time to settle the score.

I smell extremist ideology here. So what's new?

But you should have also mentioned the proxy war being conducted against India by the Pakistan Establishment for the past three decades with their 'strategic assets' - the 'good' terrorists - like the LeT and JeM. Why are you brushing this aspect under the carpet?

 

[Sine Nomine]

what did we do? How many Mukti bahini fighters blew up hotels and railway stations in islamabad?
How many of mukti bahini fighters remained active after the creation of bangladesh? What is mukti bahini doing these days?
And yes we did engage, in east pakistan completed our strategic objectives, gauged the threat perception that could emerge from it. accomplished all our objectives. And today the resltant country is in a better shape than Pakistan itself.

What did you do to India? Did you think that India will not respond to asymmetric warfare? What has your asymmetric warfare achieved in India? Which objectives has it completed?

As far as kashmir , check the acts conducted in kashmir, bombings in markets, indiscriminately shooting up streets, dragging kashmiri hindus out of their housed and killing them, blowing up trains, buses, hijacking Planes, kidnapping tourists, your government backed terrorists have engaged Indians in every sphere, not just military.

I can assure you what you cry is future,Muktis did killed those local Bengalis who stand with there country,biharis and family members of those who were from west as for your strategics objective which you have accomplished congrats and get ready for next phase of match.