Is Indian economy really better than Pakistan?

[SMC]

Mr. Young economist. Here's something for you. The base change for the Indian economy did not change the size of the economy. What changed was the growth rates in the new series.
As far as Pakistan is concerned even if the base change increases your gdp size by 100-150 bn-nothing changes. You are still a small economy.

Of course it changes things. The GDP per capita will change significantly and actually leapfrog bharat. A "small economy" will start to look not so small soon after.

Remember power availability does not take an economy to 10% growth rates. It's just one of the many bottlenecks but won't take you too far. There are many many other factors that make a nation competitive.

Of course power availability is not enough. CPEC developments alone are expected to add 2.5% points to the economic growth. Nevermind the fact that with the additional power, motorways, better railways, the 8-9% growth is within the realm of possibilities.

And by the way your existing grid can't even handle existing power capacities with blackouts in your biggest cities. So how is it going to handle all the extra power coming in from cpec projects.

Our power generation capacity is around 12000 MW while demand is 17000 MW.

And who will pay for it with all the circular debt floating around. People unwilling and unable to pay at current tariffs-who pays for all the new surplus power(assuming your grid won't collapse with all that power).

And why would that problem be effecting the new energy projects, which will be operated by other groups?

Says it all though that you're hoping for the power grid to collapse, LOL.

Now you will tell me I don't know anything about cpec - that half the world's trade will pass through gawadar (that option was always available through Karachi port).

You can ask the Chinese why they didn't use Karachi port and now want to use Gwadar. Clearly they know something you don't.

You will also tell me that Pakistan will suddenly become a manufacturing power house etc etc. I would say it's not even worth a decent argument. I would let you be happy with your assumptions and I (along with rest of world) be happy with our assumptions. We will find out soon enough.
Enjoy!

It's interesting that you lost bharatis often group yourself with the "rest of the world", suggesting that the rest of the world agrees with you or something along those lines. Read up what the "rest of the world" is saying about CPEC. There are literally conferences being held about CPEC at universities, the foreign media has never been as positive about Pakistan's economy before. That's the rest of the world for you.

There are of course usual suspects, playing the usual "debt" card and the rest of the tired old debunked arguments.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

That is a general insult, not a racist comment.



The return from bonds is much higher than 1%, depending on how long you keep it. 3-4% per year from bonds is quite common.

I am not sure why you guys are making a big hoopla about the interest and returns. Listen, no investment is free. Even with FDI, the investor is hoping to double or triple their money.



Thus far one energy project of 1320 MW is based on coal projects. And I am sure you know more about the low quality coal than the engineers.



And again, what's the problem? Even with FDI the investor is hoping to double or triple the money.



I am absolutely sure. Here are energy projects currently that are entirely under the banner of CPEC:

PUNJAB | Sahiwal Coal Power Plant | 1320 MW | U/C
PUNJAB | Balloki Power Plant | 1223 MW | U/C
SINDH | Pakistan Port Qasim Coal Power Plant | 1320 MW | U/C
SINDH | Wind Power Projects | 1530 MW | U/C
PUNJAB | Haveli Bahadur Shah Power Plant | 1230 MW | U/C
PUNJAB | Bhikki Power Plant | 1180 MW | U/C
BALOCHISTAN | HUBCO Coal Power Plant | 1320 MW | U/C
SINDH | Thar Engro Coal Power Plant | 660 MW | U/C
JHELUM RIVER | Karot Hydropower Project | 720 MW | U/C
KHYBER PAKHTUNKHWA | Suki Kinari Hydropower Plant | 870 MW | U/C
AZAD JAMMU & KASHMIR | Neelum–Jhelum Hydropower Plant | 969 MW | U/C

Here are energy projects that CPEC is investing in but are not necessarily under the banner of CPEC:


PUNJAB | Chashma Nuclear Power Complex (C3, C4, C5 Reactors) | 680 MW | U/C
BAHAWALPUR | Quaid-e-Azam Solar Park | 1500 MW | U/C
SINDH | Karachi Nuclear Power Complex (K2, K3 Reactors) | 2,200 MW | U/C
KHYBER PAKHTUNKHWA | Tarbela Dam 4th Extension | 1410 MW | U/C

The 5 projects you mention will likely be replaced by another project if they haven't already. They dropped a lot of projects that are using LNG as the source.

All I see is LNG and coal plants. they would benefit your country if they get implemented. If you want to benefit from CPEC, you have take it from China. No one will give you things on silver plate. Good luck....

 

[Zaahir]

Of course it changes things. The GDP per capita will change significantly and actually leapfrog bharat. A "small economy" will start to look not so small soon after.




Of course power availability is not enough. CPEC developments alone are expected to add 2.5% points to the economic growth. Nevermind the fact that with the additional power, motorways, better railways, the 8-9% growth is within the realm of possibilities.



Our power generation capacity is around 12000 MW while demand is 17000 MW.



And why would that problem be effecting the new energy projects, which will be operated by other groups?

Says it all though that you're hoping for the power grid to collapse, LOL.



You can ask the Chinese why they didn't use Karachi port and now want to use Gwadar. Clearly they know something you don't.



It's interesting that you lost bharatis often group yourself with the "rest of the world", suggesting that the rest of the world agrees with you or something along those lines. Read up what the "rest of the world" is saying about CPEC. There are literally conferences being held about CPEC at universities, the foreign media has never been as positive about Pakistan's economy before. That's the rest of the world for you.

There are of course usual suspects, playing the usual "debt" card and the rest of the tired old debunked arguments.

I suspected your IQ band is a bit on the lower side and you didn't disappoint. Good luck though. Stay positive.

 

[wiseone2]

Is Indian Economy is Really better than Pakistan's?

Indian economy is worth 2100 Billion USD

Pakistani economy is worth 300 Billion USD.

Indian Population in 1300 Million.
Pakistani population is 200 Million.

So Pakistani economy is 7 times smaller than India's.
But for a 6.8 times smaller population.

If we divide Indian GDP of 2100 Billion on population of 1300 million. It's 1615 dollars per capita.

If we divide Pakistani GDP of 300 Billion on population of 200 million. It's 1500 Dollars per person.

Per capita , Indian economy is only 1.076 times bigger than Pakistan.

Same is the situation of external debts. Until just two Yeats ago we owed far less money to freeing lenders per capita than India. But thanks to astronomical borrowing by current government our external debt stand at 75 billion USD.
India's external debt stands at 485 billion USD.
That's 375 USD Per Pakistani and 373 USD per Indian. Or every Pakistani owes 2 Dollars more to foreign lenders than every Indian.

Going by the numbers they look alike
The Pakistan economy has serious structural issues - falling exports, war in Afghanistan, lack of direction
The Indian economy has issues - more political corruption

 

[SMC]

I suspected your IQ band is a bit on the lower side and you didn't disappoint. Good luck though. Stay positive.

I suspected you are a one show pony and you didn't disappoint. Good luck.

 

[Great Sachin]

I think Pakistan economy is 3-4 times better than Indian economy and I wish they keep growing like they are growing right now

 

[Zaahir]

I think Pakistan economy is 3-4 times better than Indian economy and I wish they keep growing like they are growing right now

I agree. Though I would say it's about 7-8 times better. And it's going to fly away after cpec.

 

[Motti]

Is Indian economy really better than Pakistan?

Not sure. But Indian trolls are far more prolific and industrious anywhere in the world. They are world champions, and can get emotionally charged at the slightest misapprehension. Some of them think I am an erstwhile banned member whose antecedents are exposed by having two (2) Malaysian flags in my avatar.

 

[SMC]

Not sure. But Indian trolls are far more prolific and industrious anywhere in the world. They are world champions, and can get emotionally charged at the slightest misapprehension. Some of them think I am an erstwhile banned member whose antecedents are exposed by having two (2) Malaysian flags in my avatar.

As I've said elsewhere, Indians are the most insecure, emotional, short tempered and childish bunch. It's really easy to get them going. Literally no other nationality behaves like they do. Even the slightest criticism of their country results in hoards of Indians descending down upon your throats (figuratively, of course). They get personal very easily and yes, any Indian who criticizes his own state is often labeled a false flagger.

One can literally criticize any other country - US, Canada, Pakistan, UK, Australia, China etc and you don't see the same reaction even remotely. I've had some Indians try to explain this by saying they consider India their mother, but honestly I don't think anyone outside their country cares.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Pakistan production of milk 56 million tons vs 155 million tons for India.

 

[SMC]

Indian poverty rate in 2011 at $1.90 PPP a day: 21.2% http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
Pakistan poverty rate in 2011 at $1.90 PPP a day: 7.9% http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

2011 was the year the data was available for both countries. Pakistan also has 6.1% poverty rate in 2013 but there is no data available for bharat.

 

[Articulate]

As I've said elsewhere, Indians are the most insecure, emotional, short tempered and childish bunch. It's really easy to get them going. Literally no other nationality behaves like they do. Even the slightest criticism of their country results in hoards of Indians descending down upon your throats (figuratively, of course). They get personal very easily and yes, any Indian who criticizes his own state is often labeled a false flagger.

One can literally criticize any other country - US, Canada, Pakistan, UK, Australia, China etc and you don't see the same reaction even remotely. I've had some Indians try to explain this by saying they consider India their mother, but honestly I don't think anyone outside their country cares.

Pakistanis behave the at best same way and generally much worse about their Religion. Talk about Islam and hoards of Pakistanis will descend howling and yelling.

Its all about what people prioritize. We prioritize our country, you prioritize your religion.

 

[Arsalan]

Pakistan production of milk 56 million tons vs 155 million tons for India.

The 56 million tone for Pakistan is for a population of 200 million, that is 280Kg per head?
For India the 155 million ton is for 1313 million population so it means 118Kg per person?
Compare the date per head to get yourself a better idea.

The one thing India have REALLY REALLY good compared to us is Tax Collection so if this can be used (and i can be) as a tool to measure economy and economic situation, then yes, India is way ahead.

 

[Zaahir]

The 56 million tone for Pakistan is for a population of 200 million, that is 280Kg per head?
For India the 155 million ton is for 1313 million population so it means 118Kg per person?
Compare the date per head to get yourself a better idea.

The one thing India have REALLY REALLY good compared to us is Tax Collection so if this can be used (and i can be) as a tool to measure economy and economic situation, then yes, India is way ahead.

I agree on the milk production but really tax is not just the one indicator that's good.... You can look at something like installed power capacity per head or energy consumption per head... Etc etc.
India’s installed capacity as of April is 330000 MW vs 24000 MW for Pakistan. Even on a per head basis way ahead. It will still be ahead after cpec projects are completed.

 

[Arsalan]

I agree on the milk production but really tax is not just the one indicator that's good.... You can look at something like installed power capacity per head or energy consumption per head... Etc etc.
India’s installed capacity as of April is 330000 MW vs 24000 MW for Pakistan. Even on a per head basis way ahead. It will still be ahead after cpec projects are completed.

Oh no, i didn't mean to say that TAX is only thing where Indians are ahead, there surely will be others too. I was just referring to Tax as i always want Pakistan to follow the same.
Perhaps me using the words "the one thing . . . ." was misleading.