Is India tearing itself apart?

[Flintlock]

As far as the thread topic is concerned, no, India is not tearing itself apart, even though Munshi would dearly love that to happen.

Neither it is artificially holding itself together. If there's any country which is artificially holding itself together right now, it is China.

Apart from that, the most effective justification for India's existence is the mere fact of its existence and the pooling of talent and resources, resulting in a powerful nation.

 

[Evil Flare]

India Could be More Powerful if they stop how they are treating dalits & Minorities ...

They say they are Secular
They say they are the biggest democracy

But why there 700,000 Army present in Kashmir ??
Stopping Media , stopping civil rights

what they did to sikh peoples ( mass murdering ) , same in kashmir


How they claim they are secular or biggest democracy ?

 

[p2prada]

brahmanic regimes are those in which teh brahmans have legitimised the kshatriyas to rule. it is a let me scratch your back, you scratch my back relationship between teh two uppermost castes.

So, the mullahs indirect control over present day pak is justified.

So, what if a king takes a priests blessings. It is the same with christian dominated societies in the middle ages. Joan Of Arc had so much trouble from the Church in France.
U are just trying to carry 18th and 19th century ideas into the 21st century.

 

[p2prada]

That almost 1.5 billion people around the world are followers of Islam tells of a significant feat. That Islam can be found on nearly all continents of the world tells of its popularity and acceptance. With such a spread there are likely to be detractors but let us compare this with the situation of Hinduism. Hinduism has been largely confined to South Asia and has very few takers any where else. Hinduism has lost followers on a massive scale to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity. Hinduism's treatment of women is far less enlightened than in Islam and its notions of equality can only be described as barbaric. Islam as practiced in some parts of the world may deviate from the true path as taught in the Holy Quran but this cannot be blamed on Islam as a religion. These are more to do with local customs subsisting even after the advent of Islam. The problems with Hinduism, especially its elitism, is inherent to the religion.

Hinduism does not follow islam's expansionist policies.

Hinduism has lost followers on a massive scale to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity.
Hogwash. Even after 1000 years of muslim domination and 400 years of christian domination. India's hindu population is still above 85%.

Hinduism's treatment of women is far less enlightened than in Islam and its notions of equality can only be described as barbaric.

LoL. A citizen of an islamic state talking about women rights.

 

[p2prada]

The Pakistan suppression in 1971 had little or anything to do with the tenets of Islam but was a matter of state policy to keep Pakistan united. While the events of 1971 were indeed dreadful this in no way negated the Two Nation Theory upon which Pakistan was founded and remains the foundation of Bangladesh. I have stated in earlier posts that the creation of Bangladesh was the fulfillment of the original Lahore Resolution.

Since Islam stretches over thousands of miles of landmass it is bound to encounter localized conflicts which have been later blamed on Islam but actually precede its birth. The Jews leaving Palestine occurred several centuries before the birth of Islam but the present conflict has become an issue for the Islam faith nevertheless. If Palestinians were not Muslim there would still be a conflict in the region.

It is a fallacy to contend that Islam came by the sword especially in what is now Bangladesh. Islam came to this region through the activities of sufi saints who gradually converted the local population from Buddhism to Islam. This was a continuous process over many centuries.

Islam cannot be described as an elitist religion. There is no accepted hierarchy like in Hinduism and Christianity which has a priestly class that could dictate the terms of Islam. A central theme of Islam is that all are equal before Allah. A poor man can pray next to a rich man in any mosque. In Hinduism if a lower caste even touches the drinking water of a Brahmin it becomes polluted.

Very nice. There is no point trying to convince you with respect to anything pro india or pro hindusm.
I have heard enough of the differences between Sunnis and Shiites to listen to what you have to say.

 

[DarkStar]

Hinduism does not follow islam's expansionist policies.

Hindus have always been inward looking. Most used to believe and some still do, they would loose their jati by crossing the local river, and another payment would have to be made to the local brahman to restore the lost jati. The British army actually had to compensate sepoys of Hindu origin for losing their jati by crossing the Indus.

It is true, HIndu India had never threatened an outside force, but they were always to busy fighting among themselves in the vast subcontinent.

Hinduism did not lose any followers to Buddhism and Jainism, instead Hinduism supplanted both of these ancient religions of India. The reason was because the egalitarian religions of Buddhism and Jainism could not be used by teh state as a means of control.

That is why Hinduism was supported by the Kings and kshatriyas, in order to maintain control of the populace. In the sad event, Buddhism and Jainism, the truly Indian religions of the ancient world, were rod roughshod over, and people forcibly converted to Hinduism, stratified into castes, Vedic rituals and sanskrit epics imposed upon them.

According to Hindu scriptures and claims, they are Aryans, who are themselves supposed to be invaders, taking the same route taken centuries later by mahmud ghaznavi, babur, and ghori.

This proves that Hinduism is not an inherently "INdian" religion, but one of the conquerers of INdia, who usurped power from the locals, subjugated them into accepting lower caste status, and set about indoctrinating the locals into the Aryan system. Is it a coincidence that Sanskrit is a sister language to Persian and other languages of central asia?

Before the advent of Hinduism, the major religions were Buddhism and Jainism, who were fronted by people whose historicity can actually be confirmed. Gautum Buddha and Mahavira Tirthankar, were real historical peole, and in fact contemporaries. And by the time of Mahavira, Jainism was already an ancient religion.

If both these religions had survived the onslaught of the "foreign" vedic/Hindu religious forces, India would have been a much different country today.

It would not be the backward hotbed of superstition and casteism that it is today.

LOL. A citizen of an islamic state talking about women rights.

Every person of even slight intelligence and a casual knowledge of Bharat, knows the Hindu religion's attitutde towards women. Do you want me to elaborate in my next post?

 

[p2prada]

Hindus have always been inward looking. Most used to believe and some still do, they would loose their jati by crossing the river, and another payment would have to be made to the local brahman to restore the lost jati. The British army actually had to compensate sepoys of Hindu origin for losing their jati by crossing the Indus.

Hmm. I guess the many hindus living outside india have lost their "jatis". Watever "jati" means.

It is true, HIndu India had never threatened an outside force, but they were always to busy fighting among themselves in the vast subcontinent.

So what. So has China. They have always fought eachother.

Before the advent of Hinduism, the major religions were Buddhism and Jainism, who were fronted by people whose historicity can actually be confirmed. Gautum Buddha and Mahavira Tirthankar, were real historical peole, and in fact contemporaries. And by the time of Mahavira, Jainism was already an ancient religion.

If both these religions had survived the onslaught of the "foreign" vedic/Hindu religious forces, India would have been a much different country today.

It would not be the backward hotbed of superstition and casteism that it is today.

LoL. As usual u show excellent knowledge of hinduism. Go read a book. Your knowledge of the timeline is certainly messed up.

Every person of even slight intelligence and a casual knowledge of Bharat, knows the Hindu religion's attitutde towards women. Do you want me to elaborate in my next post?

Yes, please.

 

[doobie86]

oh and darkstar don't forget to include counter examples from all over the muslim world when you elaborate on the way Hinduism treats women. Just so you don't forget, kindly include examples from your own country, saudia arabia, iran and egypt.

 

[Neo]

oh and darkstar don't forget to include counter examples from all over the muslim world when you elaborate on the way Hinduism treats women. Just so you don't forget, kindly include examples from your own country, saudia arabia, iran and egypt.

That would be off-topic and we don't want to derail the thread!

 

[DarkStar]

p2 prada...will you deny now on this forum, that hinduism and sanskrit were brought by Aryan invaders, or "settlers" if you prefer?

 

[p2prada]

That would be off-topic and we don't want to derail the thread!

I disagree. Women empowerment is a very strong issue in India.
Failure of various govt policies in relation to empowering women will lead to social disintegration that will really result in india truly tearing apart faster and more effectively than terrorism, internal strife or war can ever hope to achieve.

If darkstar can actually convince us, it would be the only concrete information posted till now on why india might disintegrate.

 

[Neo]

I disagree. Women empowerment is a very strong issue in India.
Failure of various govt policies in relation to empowering women will lead to social disintegration that will really result in india truly tearing apart faster and more effectively than terrorism, internal strife or war can ever hope to achieve.

If darkstar can actually convince us, it would be the only concrete information posted till now on why india might disintegrate.

True but my comment is related to the last sentence "Just so you don't forget, kindly include examples from your own country, saudia arabia, iran and egypt".

 

[p2prada]

p2 prada...will you deny now on this forum, that hinduism and sanskrit were brought by Aryan invaders, or "settlers" if you prefer?

If thats the case then the origin of man began in africa. They made their first forays into central asia, europe and then settled in india.

The Aryan settlers in india were not imbibed with knowledge of religion and literature directly by god as claimed by islam and christianity about their own religions. It is after they settled in the plains of ganga for a number of years that they actually invented sanskrit. The word hindu was also coined after the river indus.

Hinduism and Sanskrit were Aryan inventions after settlement and not before.

 

[p2prada]

True but my comment is related to the last sentence "Just so you don't forget, kindly include examples from your own country, saudia arabia, iran and egypt".

Why not?
Darkstar claims that islamic values with respect to women empowerment is more advanced than hindu ideals.
If what he says is true, then examples are a valid point for justifying his statements. How else would he be able to explain without examples?
What better examples are available in Islamic ideals when compared to the most developed islamic societies of saudi arabia and iran. Doobie never mentioned Taliban or afghan.

 

[Neo]

Because it will only further derail the topic and turn it into another muslim vs hindu thread.

India is huge and rich in diversity, I'm sure we can find enough examples or arguments from within her boundries.