Is India one people?

[HalfMoon]

This has to be a troll post. The Kalash people of Pakistan are the only group that can be regarded as White/Aryan, the rest are a mix of Steppe, Iranic and ASI.

Iranians are Aryans just like Pakistanis.

 

[magra]

The Hindus of the subcontinent could not survive the atrocities of Aryan invaders and converted to lower caste of Indo-Aryan religion. No one was resilient and survived, because being outside caste system was not allowed.

I am in no way defending the caste system. But your comparison is incorrect. No one converted to any caste. And the Aryan invasion theory was a myth propagated by British to divide North and South Indians. There is no clear evidence of such an invasion theory.
Had there been such an invasion then there would have been atleast one mention of earlier lands in the scores of written literature (the Vedas, Upanishads etc)

Denials, Denials Mr Watson.

Random instances!!! You mean when you say and act on daily basis that Dalits or Muslims for that matter can not drink from the same glass, can not enter your kitchen or even your house, because they are unclean. That's what you call "Random Instances"!!

Indians and their Denials, Denials, and more Denials.

[/QUOTE]
Any such discrimination is punishable by law.
Such discrimination is minimal in urban settings. With more awareness and education, it will go down in rural areas as well.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

India is one people except they speak 1000 different languages, have 20 different religions, and has 20 different seperest movements...

 

[magra]

India is one people except they speak 1000 different languages, have 20 different religions, and has 20 different seperest movements...

The same applies to Pakistan, albiet lesser number of languages and lesser number of religions.
You too have separatist movements.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Islam was karma for you lot. For us, it was and is manifest destiny.

@Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8
Sir, I truly have a life outside of pdf, hence bedtime got in the way of yesterday's pawrry jho hori thee.

Ultimately, you and your friends on this thread will claim that Vedic Hinduism is an indigenous "Indian" faith. I regard that claim as an opinion, tenuously linked to - as you have already pointed out - the site of oration of the Rig Veda. Assuming your information about this location is correct (and I'm not saying it definitely is), that still leaves several problems.

Let's use Christianity's example. Christianity originated in the middle east. Naturally its various denominations can be argued to have been formulated in Rome, Constantinople, Britain and elsewhere, but these are denominations of the precursor and root faith.

There is ample evidence that Vedic Hinduism's origins were either the IVC or the pontic steppe or most probably a syncretism of both with some infusion of local elements.

I don't often quote Wikipedia because of its constant pervasion by gangetic tecchies however, parts of it remain either unnoticed by your IT cells, or perhaps even unalterable because the facts simply cannot be obfuscated or manipulated to better reflect the sanghee narrative.

"The Vedic religion developed during the early Vedic period (1500–1100 BCE), but has roots in the Eurasian steppeSintashta culture (2200–1800 BCE) and the subsequent Central AsianAndronovo culture (2000–900 BCE), and possibly also the Indus Valley Civilisation (2600–1900 BCE).[7] It was a composite of the religion of the Central Asian Indo-Aryans, itself "a syncretic mixture of old Central Asian and new Indo-European elements",[8] which borrowed "distinctive religious beliefs and practices"[9] from the Bactria–Margiana culture;[9] and the remnants of the Harappan culture of the Indus Valley.[10]

During the late Vedic period (1100–500 BCE) Brahmanism developed out of the Vedic religion, as an ideology of the Kuru-Pancala realm which expanded into a wider area after the demise of the Kuru-Pancala realm. Brahmanism was one of the major influences that shaped contemporary Hinduism...[11][2][1][12][a]"
Put simply, Vedic Hinduism is a local version of the philosophy of foreigners.

How is it any different to local Sufi or hanafi variants of Islamic traditions?

Hinduism is as local to India as Islam is.

How's that Karma for us, we are not Muslims. Like I always say, don't embarrass yourself quoting Sanskrit words out of context.

Well, ultimately it's the fact. Vedic Hinduism in fact has no Central Asia origins because there is nothing about Central Asia in it. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, give one example which identifies geographical regions of Central Asia in Rig Veda, which you have still failed to prove. Keep coming back with theories like this. It's not a complicated question either, but somehow you still fail to answer that simple question.

The difference between Sufism or Hanafi traditions is, well the obvious origins of it. Sufi and Hanafi traditions still consider Quran as the Holy texts, have a prophet and one god Allah. How's that different from Sunni or Shia Islam although the internal differences exist. And how is it connected to Hinduism at all, apart from the adaptations of mysticism.

 

[JackFell]

Iranians are Aryans just like Pakistanis.

Aryans were from the Steppe, Pakistanis have between 10 and 40% Steppe ancestry, with the upper end of this range being found in the Kalash.

Iranians are for the most part not Aryans, they just named their country that in a fit of revisionist fervour. The closest group to Aryans today are Caucasian Georgians.

For us, it was and is manifest destiny.

Why? Coterminous Pakistan was one of the cradles of civilisation but is now quite a hellish place (along with Afghanistan) due to Islam.

The "Islamic Golden Age" is largely a myth and most inventions from that time period were just stolen from areas annexed by Muslim Empires. Any country that takes Islam seriously is bound to collapse into a dysgenic mess sooner or later.

Malaysia for example is only clean and successful due to the Chinese minority that run things there, the Gulf states have no human capital despite their allegedly prestigious history and rely on European/Chinese engineers to design their weapons and infrastructure and rely on coolies from the subcontinent to do manual labour.

 

[Maira La]

Aryans were from the Steppe, Pakistanis have between 10 and 40% Steppe ancestry, with the upper end of this range being found in the Kalash.

That's nonsense, even Bengalis have 7-10% Steppe ancestry. North Indians have up to 20% and Pakistanis have much more. In some groups the Steppe component is smaller, like in Baloch, because of later introgression of Plateau Iranic dna.

Iranians are for the most part not Aryans, they just named their country that in a fit of revisionist fervour. The closest group to Aryans today are Caucasian Georgians.

Iranians have Steppe ancestry, less than Pakistanis, but they still do carry Steppe ancestry.

Iran at the time of Indo-Europeanization was ruled by Aryan elite. It's similar to how Turkey became linguistically and culturally Turkic.

Georgians are close to Aryans how? Lmao you know nothing. Georgia is very isolated genetically and they have been more or less similar since Neolithic. Even the CHG component that Yamnaya (original Indo-Europeans) carried is quite divergent from the CHG in Georgians.

Genetically it's the Pamiris that carry the highest Sintashta but they also carry a lot of other things so can't say they really look exactly like ancient Aryans.

Why? Coterminous Pakistan was one of the cradles of civilisation but is now quite a hellish place (along with Afghanistan) due to Islam.

The cradle was long gone before Islam came. In fact it was the Vedic Aryans who dealt a death blow to them, not Muslims.

As @masterchief_mirza said, the Aryans later got a good dose of Karma.

It's poverty that makes a place hellish not religion. There's lots of hellish African countries that are fully Christian.

Wealth also affects how people use religion in their daily lives.

The "Islamic Golden Age" is largely a myth and most inventions from that time period were just stolen from areas annexed by Muslim Empires. Any country that takes Islam seriously is bound to collapse into a dysgenic mess sooner or later.

Inventions were stolen? May I ask which invention was stolen since you know so much? Please don't avoid answering.

Islamic Golden Age was the best thing to have happened to human civilization between ancient Greek times and the European Renaissance.

All Muslims can't take credit for it though, it was mostly the work of Central Asians, Arabs, Persians, Andalusians etc.

Malaysia for example is only clean and successful due to the Chinese minority that run things there, the

Chinese being smart has nothing to do with Islam. It's genetics.

Gulf states have no human capital despite their allegedly prestigious history and rely on European/Chinese engineers to design their weapons and infrastructure and rely on coolies from the subcontinent to do manual labour.

I think the Gulfies did well despite being so sparsely populated. They avoided wars and used foreign people and oil money to build their countries. Nothing wrong there.

 

[Surya 1]

In the past people in online forums could argue for hours and days based on nothing but personal opinions and very subjective observation of phenotypes, but with recent advances in dna tests and analysis over the last couple of years, we can now measure genetic distance between different groups of people and put an end to this debate.

There's an online tool called Vahaduo which is used very commonly by both the academic and amateur genetics enthusiasts. Publicly available dna result data can be entered into this tool to calculate genetic distance between two different ethnicities.

I have used the data available here to find the distances posted below.

Here's just one example why Indians cannot be seen as one people and no amount of argument can change hard scientific data and results.

Here is the distance between an Englishman and a Dutch, below. This means nothing by itself, but compare this number with the comparison further below, between an UP Brahmin and an average person from UP.

View attachment 727977


Distance between UP Brahmin and average UP person:

View attachment 727980



So basically an average guy in UP (India) is 6 times further away from a Brahmin living just next to him, compared to genetic distance between Englishman and Dutch.


So it's really absurd when Indians talk about Akhand Bharat including Pakistan, Tibet and Malaysia, when India itself is really not a single race but a continent containing extremely genetically diverse people!

Akhand bharat does not include Tibet and Malysia.

 

[Varunastra]

 

[gulli]

Akhand bharat does not include Tibet and Malysia.

Kailash belongs to India.
Indian may not be one, Bharat is one. We live by Bharat mata or maa ke bache sub ek hote hai.

 

[Maira La]

Akhand bharat does not include Tibet and Malysia.

Look at this Kangressi giving away parts of Akhand Bharat mata. You've been exposed!

 

[Surya 1]

India was never about athnicity. It was about the ethos, culture and value system of people of the land starting from Himalayas in north to Indian ocean in south.

Look at this Kangressi giving away parts of Akhand Bharat mata. You've been exposed!

How am I exposed?

Kailash belongs to India.
Indian may not be one, Bharat is one. We live by Bharat mata or maa ke bache sub ek hote hai.

Infact, wjole Himalaya belongs to India.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

India was never about athnicity.

Yes. Some Indians started preaching this mantra the minute they realised OOI doesn't have legs to stand on.

One minute, ethnicity is everything, the next minute, ethnicity is nothing. Gotta love all these knots that hindutva keeps you tied up and preoccupied in.

 

[Surya 1]

Yes. Some Indians started preaching this mantra the minute they realised OOI doesn't have legs to stand on.

One minute, ethnicity is everything, the next minute, ethnicity is nothing. Gotta love all these knots that hindutva keeps you tied up and preoccupied in.

When a guy like you argue without using the brain as usual, he forgets that that is applicable to a multi ethnicity country like pakistan as well. How Pakistan is an Ummah with multi ethnicity diaspora?

 

[KurtisBrian]

In the past people in online forums could argue for hours and days based on nothing but personal opinions and very subjective observation of phenotypes, but with recent advances in dna tests and analysis over the last couple of years, we can now measure genetic distance between different groups of people and put an end to this debate.

There's an online tool called Vahaduo which is used very commonly by both the academic and amateur genetics enthusiasts. Publicly available dna result data can be entered into this tool to calculate genetic distance between two different ethnicities.

I have used the data available here to find the distances posted below.

Here's just one example why Indians cannot be seen as one people and no amount of argument can change hard scientific data and results.

Here is the distance between an Englishman and a Dutch, below. This means nothing by itself, but compare this number with the comparison further below, between an UP Brahmin and an average person from UP.

View attachment 727977


Distance between UP Brahmin and average UP person:

View attachment 727980



So basically an average guy in UP (India) is 6 times further away from a Brahmin living just next to him, compared to genetic distance between Englishman and Dutch.


So it's really absurd when Indians talk about Akhand Bharat including Pakistan, Tibet and Malaysia, when India itself is really not a single race but a continent containing extremely genetically diverse people!

total genetic distance to somebody is completely irrelevant. Invade then rape the females of a place and each successive generation becomes more genetically similar to the original inhabitants. ONLY ydna haplogroup tells us men come from different lines and places. It strongly suggests that in an area one line of males are the invaders and rapists while the other male lines are native.

look at Russian men. 46% are the same ydna haplogroup, R1a, as Pakistani and Indian men. That is about 30 million Russian men vs 2-300+/- million men in South Asia. Who don't look like the used to? numbers and women would STRONGLY suggest Russians.