Is India one people?

[magra]

If you genuinely believe this, Modi and the BJP will declare you anti-national. The hindutva OOI narrative is categorically dependent on "who came when and from where".

I cant comment on what is the exact narrative of Hindutva. I am not the kind of demographic which is in any immediate danger of getting 'anti-national' tag. At best, I might be tagged as 'minority-appeaser'.

Why should Muslims of India unite with non-Muslims of India? We are white/Aryans and have nothing to do with your genes or history.

Our identity will always be Muslims and Muslims only. We do not believe in fake nation states like India.

Refer to my previous post. Those who do not believe in the identity of 'Indian' above other identities do not deserve to have Indian citizenship.
You do not represent other patriotic Indian muslims I know. You are welcome to immigrate to another country and surrender Indian citizenship.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Most Pakistanis and folks like you have no clue on the topic relating to India and pretend to be all-knowing on the subject, then make Himalayan blunders, which people who wanted to debate will have to take too much time repealing.

You have hit the nail on the head

The reasons for Pakistani here holding these fallacies is due to prejudice from preconceived notions

This boils down to their history, throughout their history the people inhabiting the regions that make up modern Pakistan have never been involved in establishing an empire that included regions of Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan, NWFP, FATA etc

For nearly 2400 year, It was always an external invader who conquered and united them
First being Persian Achaemenids in 518 BC to last one being British till 1947

Having no experience in this concept, they have attempted ape their former conquerors in these matters

but their conquerors like all foreign conquerors to establish their rule looked down local populace and to ensure safe continuation of their ethnic group as ruling class always prioritized themselves at the cost of other ethnic groups

No surprises practicing this flawed approach led to their newly established nations falling apart in less than 3 decades since it was born 1947

Their attempt to see Indian from the lens of ethnic groups/ genetics/race/caste is product of this cultural habit of aping the conquers and infects every way of their thinking

India is one people in term of <fill the blank>. No country is one people without some specific context.

Your nation is a product of Zhonghua minzu, hence you feel that way

 

[Hiptullha]

I donot think the word Gandhara comes down from the ancient Greeks...I may be wrong..but highly unlikely i am wrong in this regard

?
Yeah, I meant civilization. Point still stands.

You are aware that the guy who coined the name 'Pakistan' died a unsung death in Britain. His burial was paid by for his alma mater - Cambridge University. His was effectively disowned.

?
What was the name of the country all the Muslims voted for in 1946?

 

[Thorough Pro]

you call them people?

In the past people in online forums could argue for hours and days based on nothing but personal opinions and very subjective observation of phenotypes, but with recent advances in dna tests and analysis over the last couple of years, we can now measure genetic distance between different groups of people and put an end to this debate.

There's an online tool called Vahaduo which is used very commonly by both the academic and amateur genetics enthusiasts. Publicly available dna result data can be entered into this tool to calculate genetic distance between two different ethnicities.

I have used the data available here to find the distances posted below.

Here's just one example why Indians cannot be seen as one people and no amount of argument can change hard scientific data and results.

Here is the distance between an Englishman and a Dutch, below. This means nothing by itself, but compare this number with the comparison further below, between an UP Brahmin and an average person from UP.

View attachment 727977


Distance between UP Brahmin and average UP person:

View attachment 727980



So basically an average guy in UP (India) is 6 times further away from a Brahmin living just next to him, compared to genetic distance between Englishman and Dutch.


So it's really absurd when Indians talk about Akhand Bharat including Pakistan, Tibet and Malaysia, when India itself is really not a single race but a continent containing extremely genetically diverse people!

 

[Hiptullha]

Pakistan have never been involved in establishing an empire that included regions of Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan, NWFP, FATA etc

LOL nice metric you have there. I'm pretty sure Durrani was born in Multan so you're already wrong on that count. And if we ignore your retarded P*j**t metric, Punjabi Muslims helped establish the Delhi Sultanate and Mughal Empire. IIRC a Muslim Khokar ended up defending the Delhi Sultanate against Timur and started his own dynasty.

 

[CIA Mole]

without british thered be no india of today

 

[Maira La]

what are the rules to be a single entity?

Homogeneity. E.g. Germany is a true nation state. So is Korea, etc.

what is the connection between Balouch and a Kashmiri?

Much much more than between, say, Oriya and Kashmiri. STILL they are separate nations. As Indus_Pakistan mentioned, Pakistan has used Islam, British legacy and geography to glue several ethnicities together.

 

[Maira La]

You have hit the nail on the head

The reasons for Pakistani here holding these fallacies is due to prejudice from preconceived notions

This boils down to their history, throughout their history the people inhabiting the regions that make up modern Pakistan have never been involved in establishing an empire that included regions of Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan, NWFP, FATA etc

For nearly 2400 year, It was always an external invader who conquered and united them
First being Persian Achaemenids in 518 BC to last one being British till 1947

Having no experience in this concept, they have attempted ape their former conquerors in these matters

So you are saying a country needs an empire to set precedence for it's existence? Well then, what precedence did the empires have for them to exist?

Did the Mongols need a precedence? Did the Ottomans need one? No, they all created some marvelous new empires with sword and blood, and not through any historical precedence. They existed because their elites wanted them to exist and they had the power to make them exist.

In modern context though, w.r.t. concept of nation state, what's more important than precedence is an underlying sense of cultural, racial and linguistic similarity <-- greater similarity results in stronger, more durable nation state.

 

[Maira La]

The truth is Pakistan has already fragmented. The army is masking this.

As an outsider I don't think my comments on Pakistan internal stuff will be very welcome, however I got to say you need to embrace this 'fragmentation', that actually always existed and somehow make it work without conflict. Pakistan needs to avoid turning it's constituent ethnicities into one people. Better to see it as ... the Pashtuns, Punjabis etc. etc. have come together to build this powerful army to preserve and perpetuate their historical identities, that is a source of pride, not extinguish them by creating 'one people'.

 

[Chhatrapati]

So basically, you have nil to say viz Aryans and their origins/philosophies/culture being similarly "foreign" to the subcontinent as Muslims, so you obfuscate. The reason this is actually relevant is precisely because it forms a counter-narrative based in science to the prevailing "Mughal-phobic" rubbish that pervades throughout India's modern psyche to obsessive levels.

Please do continue.

How exactly is our philosophy and culture foreign? Do our Vedas talk about the Nile in Egypt? Moscowa river in Russia or say dragon fruit that grows in China?

Instead, it talks about the Himalayas, valleys, rivers, holy basil that are historically grown in India or mangoes another fruit that are historically grown in parts of South Asia. Here we have religion that's intertwined with the history of the region. Then how exactly is it foreign? Hinduism originated here.
It's True Islam came from outside of the subcontinent, there is nothing wrong with that neither does it make Indic religion one-up the Abrahamic faiths in India.

Every other religion in India has suffered under Mughal rule. Nothing wrong with being Mughal phobic, they tried to destroy the culture of the region our ancestors resisted and survived, their expansion was stopped at the borders of India.

 

[Hiptullha]

How exactly is our philosophy and culture foreign? Do our Vedas talk about the Nile in Egypt? Moscowa river in Russia or say dragon fruit that grows in China?

Hindus be like worshiping Indo-European gods is not foreign because they wrote about mangoes after pillaging us. Based ASI cuckold.

they tried to destroy the culture of the region our ancestors resisted

No they didn't.

 

[peagle]

India is a fantasy, a figment of imagination, nothing more nothing less.

It is not an ethnic marker nor a religious marker nor a linguistic marker, nothing,
it survives whilst the people believe in that fantasy, as soon as reality bites, India will blow up like a soap bubble.

The stupid reasons being presented here by the Indians are astounding, devoid of facts or reason, just self-induced truths created in an echo chamber.

 

[magra]

India is a fantasy, a figment of imagination, nothing more nothing less.

It is not an ethnic marker nor a religious marker nor a linguistic marker, nothing,
it survives whilst the people believe in that fantasy, as soon as reality bites, India will blow up like a soap bubble.

The stupid reasons being presented here by the Indians are astounding, devoid of facts or reason, just self-induced truths created in an echo chamber.

An idea if believed by everyone is more powerful than any so-called reality.
Pakistanis should actually be in awe of how this powerful idea is uniting the seemingly disparate India. You can use this as example to unite your own multi-ethnic, multi-lingual nation instead of laughing off the model.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Hindus be like worshiping Indo-European gods is not foreign because they wrote about mangoes after pillaging us. Based ASI cuckold.

No they didn't.

Lol! Bugger off man, you yourselves have no clue on what's being talked about and inserting yourself for the attention won't get you that. That's my last reply to you on the topic.

 

[Hiptullha]

Lol! Bugger off man, you yourselves have no clue on what's being talked about and inserting yourself for the attention won't get you that. That's my last reply to you on the topic.

Yep, I don't know what I'm talking about. All those gods came out of the minds nangey Godmen in India who took a gau mutr powered vimana to Europe to spread Dharma across the world, then their descendants came back to return to mother Bharatavarsa. I'm sorry, I will never disagree with you ever again.